Michel Altmayer (Magma-Related) |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32844 |
Topic: Michel Altmayer (Magma-Related) Posted: March 28 2008 at 18:25 |
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I've mentioned Michel Altmayer's Troll a number of times over the last months in posts, but hadn't started a Suggestion topic on him. I'm sure this project must have been discussed before in teams (I know many must be aware of this), but he's not in the archives. He's the guy in Longshot, eh, uggh, and also played drums with Atoll (on Illian).
It's a Zeuhl-related project -- very influenced by Magma but not as good. From http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/ZEUHL-intro.html
See New Gibralta Encyclopaedia... http://www.gepr.net/aa.html#ALTMAYER
Here's a 2006 discussion where Yukorin mentions Troll: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26915&OB=DESC Here's the Troll myspace page for him... http://www.myspace.com/trollwelcomerecords That re-edition sounds a little different from mine (and considerably MORE hardcore Zeuhl and better from those tracks, as Troll Vol 2 is a mix -- which includes similar stuff to Vander's light swingy, smiley music and poppy pap). I should get that homage albums, Hamtai, at some time. EDIT: Anyway, sort of Zeuhl-Crossover if you will. please let me know what you think even if you don't know what to think. Edited by Logan - March 28 2008 at 19:55 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32844 |
Posted: March 30 2008 at 14:45 | |
Zeuhl/ Avant team is evaluating it, but I want to bump it for any Zeuhl (and Zeuhl -related) freaks, though there's much better Zeuhl like Noa to discover.
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Grimfurg
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 19 2008 Location: Cairo Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 16:30 | |
BUMP
Honestly, I think Troll is a big Magma rip off. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31165 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 02:45 | |
I'll take a listen to this later today - can't imagine why Troll can't be included - even if it's bad zeuhl and a ripoff, it needs to be here
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fusionfreak
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 23 2007 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1317 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 08:53 | |
Bump,nice but I prefer Magma(their concert in Brest is in 72 days)
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31165 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 10:29 | |
I'm listening and sort of don't know what to make of this.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32844 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 13:13 | |
Talk about a resurrection of an old suggestion/ evaluation of a project that's better of being obscure. ;) For Zeuhl-universe completists only....
I described it as Zeuhl-crossover/ Magma inspired. It's Zeuhl-lite. Troll Vol. 2 (don't bother looking for a Vol. 1) is a mostly bad album (I like it best when it's most into Vander/ Magma rip-off territory). Rather a waste of talent from the Magma alumni, imo. It has its moments, though. I quite like the instrumentals like "Ankh" and "Ud ior..." "Break Down" is not bad (rather Weidorje/ Pagaish). The chorale vocals can be quite good. It's often thought to be a really bad album in the Magma-inspired universe, but not altogether bad. I think the album can sound like more of a Magma rip-off still because of the shared personnel, but very Magma inspired (though a weaker jazz-fusion version with poor '80s stylings). I prefer what Troll did for Hamtai: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=19795 Edited by Logan - January 09 2009 at 13:15 |
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Grimfurg
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 19 2008 Location: Cairo Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Posted: January 17 2009 at 14:07 | |
Yes I admit, that cover is great. But like, Ankh is mostly a bad version of Zess, Break Down has riffs that sound tooo much like De Futura, Some Words About Trane is just like Otis!
I mean seriously they're good, AMAZING line-up, but Altmayer just needs to stop copying Magma's stuff. Honestly I actually like the Merci/Offering period. But just like NaturalScience I just really don't know what to think of this, I like and acknowledge the origniality of the first song "Igor...". |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32844 |
Posted: January 18 2009 at 14:03 | |
You're right, it is too derivative. Igor is an interesting one -- part pop with chamber rock, Zao leanings. I really hear Zao's Osiris album in that.
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Earth
Forum Newbie Joined: February 22 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
Posted: February 22 2009 at 10:44 | |
Hello, my name is Marc, I'm living in France. I was searching links about Michel Altmayer and Troll on google and I've found this forum. Living not so far than him, I met Michel Altmayer a lot of times. I just can say he is a wonderful guy, loving music and the accusation of copying magma is not possible at his level. If it was true, the musicians of magma playing on the album would not have accepted to play on it. Christian Vander himself uses parts of Pharoah Sanders music with Offering, parts of Carl Orff in MDK. It's not a reason to consider the magma music as copy. Michel Altmayer works for zeuhl music since 1977, teaching drumming, inviting Magma for a lot of concerts in the east of France...Thanks to him, a lot of french people discovered the Zeuhl music, don't forget that. He founded Welcome Records with "Hamtaļ!", a tribute to the music of Christian Vander. He is closed to the leader of Magma. Stop to make references to one or another (you hear Zao when you are listening to "Igor"? just because there is a string trio??? You hear Top basslines when Bernard Paganotti plays bass? Breakdown is a modal jazz-rock track with a non-conventional drums playing, but it's far from de futura!!! Be serious. Last time I met M.A.(in summer 2008), it was in the baal productions studio, during a recording session for the new album. I can say you will be surprised by the music when the cd will be available! The sound is really enormous, with an incredible powerful drumsound. The music, still in the zeuhl vein, is completely released from the influence of Magma. The composition I've listened to is a long piece of more than 20 mn. Sometimes I had the impression to hear a metal-prog band with complex architectural parts. M.A. said to me that the composition was written in 1977, with new material composed in 2008...I also heard the reissue of Vol.2 with new mix and new mastering, with the 2 bonus tracks. It sounds greater than the lp. Some details appears on the cd and were curiously absent on the lp version (or very confused). I hope the reissue and the new album will be available in 2009. Troll has also a lot of touring projects in Japan, Norway, Sweden. Thanks for reading me (I hope my english is not too bad!)
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32844 |
Posted: February 22 2009 at 12:08 | |
Sorry for being overly harsh, Marc. Methinks I was jumping on a bandwagon too much. Michel Altmayer has done a lot for music and Zeuhl, and Welcome Records is excellent.. I was partially bolstering the case for the inclusion by mentioning rather derivative qualities (as I sometimes say here, if a band/ artist is seen as derivative/ heavily influenced by, then it has a better chance at getting into the archives). Also, when one really looks for similarities they become more apparent and can seem closer to rip-off territory than influenced by territory.
Rip-off was too strong a word (and one I'm usually careful to avoid) and I apologise for that. Heck, I've mentioned strong similarities here that no one else has commented on, or have dismissed. I'm an associator. For instance, I recently added a band called Chrome Hoof and think that has more derivative Magma qualities than Troll. I've even complained that Magma was too derivative in the past. I was originally put off MDK because I felt it had too many similarities to Carmina Burana (love Carmina Burana), but I changed my tune. It's influenced by and builds on it (just as Vander was influenced by Coltrane... and Stockhausen etc.). music is influenced by earlier music, that's a way music progresses. Some say that Eskaton is a Magma rip-off, but I wouldn't. Of course there are similarities, and Magma is an influence. I'm sure that Altmayer was inspired by some of the same sources that Vander is, and you're right, there wouldn't be that relationship if Altmayer was plagiarising Magma. I do like Troll, but was more negative due to some disparaging remarks I've heard about it partially to potentially save face. Like I said, the album can sound more like a rip-off due to shared personelle.... In other words, one is hearing those musicians' styles in both. In terms of me finding Zao's Osiris similar to "Igor", I don't remember if it was "Isis" or "Shardaz", ("Shardaz" I believe) that it particularly reminded me of in part, but it wasn't because of a string trio (that would be what made me say that it has chamber rock stylings) as certain notes. I didn't mean that it was derivative of that track. I think it was the little bit at 1:30 and 2:40 in "Igor" particularly and a more general feeling. Compare it to, say, 4:16 in "Shardaz". Even if similar to my ears (and I hear a lot of music that has similarities to "Shardaz" to my ears -- maybe because it's one of my favourite tracks -- it doesn't make it a rip-off). Anyway, welcome aboard, and thanks for the post, Sorry again for disparaging remarks. And I don't think of that piece as a De Futura rip-off either. It has similarities; sure. It even shares notes! (little joke) And your English is excellent; far, far better than my French which I used to write quite well. -Greg EDIT General note to teams: to get this moving forward, perhaps it's about time that I mentioned this Magma-related project to Crossover. Here's the ratingfreak listing (I added it there eleven months ago). Michel Altmayer Then again, it would make more sense to wait for the new album. Edited by Logan - February 22 2009 at 12:24 |
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