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ziggystardust360 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is this prog?
    Posted: July 23 2008 at 21:12
I came across this KISS album called Music from The Elder.
Is this album prog?
''I always had the repulsive need to be something other than human''-David Bowie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2008 at 21:40
Others have thought so:
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I have heard this concept album, but so many years ago.  I expect that it was influenced by prog, but is not truly prog.

From http://www.musicstreetjournal.com/elder.html

Originally posted by Gary Hill Gary Hill wrote:


When it was recorded in 1981, this album was to have been a masterwork of epic proportions. A concept album with serious prog leanings, early preview copies of the album received poor reviews. In a last ditch effort to save it, tracks were moved around to accentuate certain songs (in the hopes of producing a hit). Ambient sounds between tracks were, in many cases, removed (in others shortened). The end result was an album that, although far better than the average LP, sold poorly.

Now, all these years later, in the effort to remaster the Kiss catalog, the album has been reissued as initially intended. The concept, originally quite muddled due to the shuffling around of songs, is now a well told (although slightly cliched) heroic tale of good versus evil. The competent production gives a CD that sounds great, and the restored ambient bits add character.


Originally posted by bcollette at rateyourmusic bcollette at rateyourmusic wrote:

When the earth was young, they were already old...

KISS' notorious Music from The Elder is silly, overblown and always on the edge of complete disaster, yet if listened to with absolutely no expectations (is that possible?) it's also somewhat likeable in its lameness and actually a weirdly admirable flop.  Either way, it's inarguable that it exists forever as a total experimental one-off oddity in the band's long and rarely adventurous career.  The band, or rather Stanley and Simmons with mega-producer Bob Ezrin's encouragement, bit off far more than they could ever chew in attempting to create a prog-rock influenced concept album, let alone that it was also a companion piece to a planned film, which thankfully was never filmed.  As if KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park wasn't bad enough, one can only imagine the horrors The Elder would have had in store for stoners.

Without a doubt the best cuts are the rockers, led by Ace's album-saving "Dark Light", along with "The Oath", "I", "Only You" and instrumental "Escape from the Island", but rather surprising is the Simmons-sung soft rock beauty "A World Without Heroes", which is one of three songs on the record co-written by Lou Reed.

The odyssey begins...


Above taken from http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/kiss/music_from_the_elder/



Edited by Logan - July 23 2008 at 21:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2008 at 23:02
seriously, this is the first time i have ever seen someone classify Kiss as somewhat prog. I am not trying to trash the band or anything, but they mostly did pure hard rock, they only cared to make some noise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2008 at 23:04
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

seriously, this is the first time i have ever seen someone classify Kiss as somewhat prog. I am not trying to trash the band or anything, but they mostly did pure hard rock, they only cared to make some noise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2008 at 23:24
Finally, Kiss has been brought into discussion in PA... i knew this day would come...Tongue 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2008 at 23:26
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Finally, Kiss has been brought into discussion in PA... i knew this day would come...Tongue 


yeah, every band / artist is somehow progressive / innovative during their career, even if they are not prog neither intended to be.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 01:27
I love the album and think its their most interesting as well as Destroyer. Its definitely a concept album and seems to have been written about a non existent film called The Elder. However Kiss are not prog at all and hate bands like Emerson Lake and Palmer. Paul said on Kiss Exposed "You listen to Emerson Lake and Palmer, not me." Gene said, "I feel like shooting that thing, shut up! Give me a straight A chord that cracks your ribs rather than all that noodling."
 
It is a much maligned album, Kiss fans hate it,  but I actually enjoy it. I think it has aspects of prog for sure, including dialogue and strings, and time sig changes on "Under the Rose'. 'Just a Boy' is prog sounding too, as well as Dark Light, and A World Without Heroes.. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 01:49
Sorry, I believe their normal music with an extra dose of pretentiousness.
 
Not remotely Prog IMHO.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 01:53
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Sorry, I believe their normal music with an extra dose of pretentiousness.
 
Not remotely Prog IMHO.
 
Iván


Pretty much.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 01:59
The only music of Kiss I would ever listen to was Anamalize which contained the great guitar playing of Mark St John aka Mark Norton a guy I grew up with who died last year.  Anything else produced by this worthless band ahh I am not going to say anymore
 
flame away


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 06:30
From what i have heard thats suposed to be the worst album they made. I cant even begin to imagine how bad it must be, when i think thiere good albums stinks... Dead
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 08:31
Kiss are a fun band. They were never to be taken seriously. I think by the time they made 'The Elder' they were seeking to explore something new. They had probably got tired of playing the same four chords for ten years, and singing about 'chicks' all the time. It probably took the Elder to make them realise that their strength lay in simple rock 'n' roll, not art rock.

I listened to them quite a lot up until the age of about 14. They kept me amused for a few years, and I still quite like selected albums, notably Destroyer and Dynasty. In small doses. The Ace Frehley solo album isn't too bad either.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 10:12
IS THIS PROG?.......a question often asked in these forums when dealing with isolated tracks or albums from artists otherwise not know for their progressive output.
 
One of my first ever postings way back in the early days of this site was about Whether "Fly Like An Eagle" by the Steve Miller band could be regarded as progressive rock,the general consensus was that this track was an attempt at a  dabbling  with the progressive rock style or sound. certainly something that many non progressive  bands did do in the days when the prog rock sound had greater influence.
 
I was never a fan of Kiss,but this album intrigues me,it sounds like it might have been one of those daliences,i'm keen to hear itSmile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 10:16
I am in no way saying they deserve being in the prog archives.I just wanted to know if this excellent album was prog or not.
''I always had the repulsive need to be something other than human''-David Bowie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 12:06

One of the Most HATED by me! pure ......crap!!!   !Tongue



Edited by darksideof - July 24 2008 at 12:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 12:32
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Sorry, I believe their normal music with an extra dose of pretentiousness.
 
Not remotely Prog IMHO.
 
Iván
 
 
No,you're right there normal music isn't prog,but this album is very progressive.
.
''I always had the repulsive need to be something other than human''-David Bowie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 14:11
Although I do think it's far from their finest hour, it's cleary an Art-Rock album. Draw your own conclusions from that.

Edited by Kotro - July 24 2008 at 14:12
Bigger on the inside.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 22:12
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:


Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Finally, Kiss has been brought into discussion in PA... i knew this day would come...Tongue 
yeah, every band / artist is somehow progressive / innovative during their career, even if they are not prog neither intended to be.


Im sorry but i love that mars volta pic,i kept trying to read everything seriously but that had been in the corner of my eye the whole time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 22:39
Originally posted by mrcozdude mrcozdude wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:


Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Finally, Kiss has been brought into discussion in PA... i knew this day would come...Tongue 
yeah, every band / artist is somehow progressive / innovative during their career, even if they are not prog neither intended to be.


Im sorry but i love that mars volta pic,i kept trying to read everything seriously but that had been in the corner of my eye the whole time!


the internet has endless possibilities. If you liked it i can send it to you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2008 at 02:28
It's the old "progressive" vs "Prog" thing.
 
Prog, in the sense of progressive music in the original sense is inherently progressive - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49384
 
Music that is progressive is different, and includes any music that does something interesting. Yes, that's a vague description, but it's the contrast that's important rather than the definition.
 
So a good comparison would be between the album in question (which I don't know) and something which is conclusively Prog, like "In the Court of the Crimson King".
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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