Least Proggy Metallica Album

 

"Proggy" = "proggish, incorporating prog-like aspects, somewhat reminiscent of prog," no?

 

In any case, "prog" today is largely an undefined, subjective quantity. It is pointless, and just plain needlessly antagonistic, to smugly pontificate about what it is and isn't, as if you alone "owned' the rights to the term, and its parameters.

 

You're not making many friends for yourself here, are you? A little more manners, humility, tolerance for the opinions of others, and broad-mindedness would go a long way, I think! You're the same fellow who labeled us all as "sick," and implied that our collective judgment was clouded by pot, aren't you? That's hardly a sensible way to begin here, or to win converts to your point of view -- but an excellent way to goad and antagonize people!

 

Hit me (and all of us, as you did) unprovoked like that, and I'll hit you right back. My posts might then get hidden as being too "personal," but I still reserve that basic right to self defence, to the best of my ability. 

 

Granted, none of them are (old style) prog rock, but around here (and in these times) there is a musical form (or forms) known as prog metal.

 

You don't need to like the music (I don't), but you should accept and understand that it is here, and here to stay, if you want to stick around in peace, without contantly fighting with the PM fans, who are very numerous (many of whom -- if not most -- also enjoy what you and I might consider to be 'true" prog (rock)).

 

The athoritative prog metal guys here don't maintain that PM is prog rock -- they say that it is progressive METAL, that is, music which, within the realm of metal, is "progressive."

 

 

no prog relation for me

 

The first 4 albums and the newest one are the most proggy. If you were to listen to stuff from their middle period (St. Anger, Load, The Black Album, Reload, etc.), you would've voted for one of those. They have no prog relaton whatsoever.

 

Well, I reviewed the first 3 albums and pointed out just a few of the most obvious things. The developing riff idea which is not present in "standard"metal, but is present in the music of King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP and Yes - and to some extent, Rush - indeed, it's core to the proggy sound (timbres aside) - is just one - but the most striking one. It's fundamentally Prog.

 

Valarius wrote: It depends on your definition of "proggy". I voted Kill 'Em All, as to me that is a straight up metal album. To start saying KEA has proggy elements such as time changes etc, basically says that there is prog elements in every style of music.   At which point if that's that case why is it nessesarily a "Prog element"?   If that doesn't make sense, don't worry, I'm confused by it myself. Basically, Kill 'Em All is the least Proggy, end of.

 

Elements are a good way to start identifying Prog, if you want to be scientific about it - obviously, that system isn't perfect, as you say, you can identify elements in a lot of music (but not necessarily every style - Country and Western, for example, rarely employs time changes).

 

I know my system is a little hard to understand - but it's one that I've developed over 16 years, since I wrote my first essay on Prog Rock at university - and have since come to realise how many errors I made!

 

In essence, I'm still developing my theories based on how fans and bands see the music, and then listening to the music to hear how much of what is said or written matches reality, in terms of musical elements.

 

One of the best starting points seems to be a quote from Keith Emerson, in which he stated that Prog is music that turns itself upside down and inside out - and nowhere is this principle more evident than in the formal structure of the music itself, hence I tend to reject standard song structures as Non-Prog, and exploratory and developing structures as the genuine article.

 

The test of this theory is in the "Classic" bands - in whose music it holds water most of the time. This test also works with Pink Floyd, Can and Metallica - hence I hear the Prog in their music, but to a much lesser extent in, say, Dream Theater.

 

This is not a controversial point, merely an examination of the facts and application of this very simple test, imprecise though it might be.

 

Atavachron wrote: off topic--  heard a few cuts off the new one.. seemed quite familiar, disappointing

 

Indeed it does sound familiar - I suppose that's the point. They were trying to sound like old Metallica, from what I've read, encouraged by producer Rick Rubin. However, I've found that, like the first 4 albums, the music has this tendency to grow on you - even the ballads - and reveal hidden depths. Unlike the first 4 - or, at least, RTL to AJFA, the theme or "concept" is not particularly strong, and the music seems a bit less varied.

 

None are as startling as the first 4, but many of the tracks show this underlying developing riff principle at work that was unique to Metallica - although many metal bands have taken elements of this principle and developed those; I'm thinking of bands like Watchtower, who explored the intricate riff and time change elements - but never truly got into development, being side-tracked by the technical explorations which they layered onto elongated structures. This is a different (and simpler) technique of structuring.

 

Stick with DM - it's a grower