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LiquidEternity ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: December 07 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 900 |
![]() Posted: March 01 2009 at 21:56 |
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Now, I keep hearing it mentioned elsewhere that Camel are a Canterbury scene band, but PA does not really acknowledge this. What is the band's connection to the rest of the scene, are they a part of it, and if they are, why aren't they included in the neat little Canterbury scene category? I searched a bit, but this is a hard thing to search for, you know...
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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I just don't see a lot of connection to the scene, through either their personal connections or their music, other than Richard Sinclair and some other Caravan members joining up after Moonmadness. To me, when thinking about Canterbury they never come to mind as being a part of all that; although, the term "Canterbury" itself is a pretty nebulous and odd concept: almost none of the bands of that "scene" came from Canterbury.
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Chris S ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
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^^ Going by ' perception' I would tend to agree that they sound the least canterbury of the lot. Still even tagged under a genre they are hard to beat!
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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Moogtron III ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10616 |
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Apart from what has been mentioned about Caravan's Richard Sinclair joining Camel, I think that Camel is also influenced by Caravan in an earlier stage. At least, I remember Ed Macan having said that in his book about prog rock, and it sounds logical to me. But although Caravan is one of the most important Canterbury bands, their music is not the most representative of the Canterbury scene as a whole. But in my ears, Caravan and Camel have some likeness in sound.
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Raff ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24439 |
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Well, according to someone, Caravan are as 'inoffensive' as Camel, so there should be reason enough
![]() Seriously, I think that the main reason is the presence of Richard Sinclair in the band for two studio and part of one live album, even though there might be musical similarities (which I really don't see, but that's probably a limit of mine). |
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someone_else ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: May 02 2008 Location: Going Bananas Status: Offline Points: 24797 |
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'Canterbury' may be a pretty nebulous and odd concept indeed, but music from Canterbury bands has often a jazzy or psychedelic element. And although there may be some remote similarity between Camel and Caravan, I think that Camel's music is far more symphonic and the bands are more alike from an alphabetical point of view. Edited by someone_else - March 02 2009 at 08:05 |
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Man Erg ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 26 2004 Location: Isle of Lucy Status: Offline Points: 7456 |
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The 'Canterbury' band that I believe that Camel sound closest to is Supersister (Who came from The Netherlands...sic).
The flute sound is similar in style to that of Andrew Latimers and the vocals are not dis-similar to Richard Sinclair's. The similarity in sound is especially noticeable on the first two Camel albums.Camel even 'dedicated' a track (Supertwister from the Mirage album) to Supersister. I believe that the reason for Supersister's 'Canterbury' accreditation is because of their paying homage to The Mothers of Invention. The band that a lot of 'Canterbury' bands tried to emulate to a certain extent. Edited by Man Erg - March 02 2009 at 08:24 |
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The Quiet One ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 15745 |
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I don't think the relation is much of the entry of Richard in "later" albums.
Camel's debut album, is certainly not Syphonic, and definitely is directed more in the Canterbury side, but that's it really.... |
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Raff ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24439 |
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Actually, if I told you what I think a lot of Camel's debut sounds like, you'd laugh me off the site... First time I heard it, all I could think of was Santana - believe it or not. ![]() |
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
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I always got a King Crimson vibe from Camel's debut...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Mandrakeroot ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Italian Prog Specialist Joined: March 01 2006 Location: San Foca, Friûl Status: Offline Points: 5851 |
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In my opinion also some King Crimson's albums are 'Canterbury Scene' style...
...also because for me Canterbury is only a 'Psychedelic Jazz in Rock' (
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The Quiet One ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 15745 |
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Raff you nailed it! The first album of Santana specially, yes. And well, also Abraxas.... But after all, those two Santana albums, aren't so Jazz-Rock, compared to Caravanserai ![]() |
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crimson87 ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 03 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1818 |
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There can be a hint , but they aren't part of the Canterbury scene for sure.
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omri ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 1250 |
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I wrote it few times in the past. I don't think Canterbury is a real sub-genre. Egg is very classical influenced (a kind of softened Nice for me), National health reminds me a lot of Return to forever, I see Caravan of a mix of soft jazz and folk while the more hard core bands (mainly Soft machine & Gong) are mixing psychadelia, jazzy elements and avant-garde. Robert Wyatt in his deeper albums (Rock bottom, Old rottenhat) sounds kind of avant-garde to me.
Now, I don't see Camel as something close to any of these bands / artists.
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omri
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Captain Capricorn ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 21 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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I think the comparison comes from the crossing of members with a blatantly Canterbury band (Caravan) - but that doesn't automatically make Camel Canterbury...
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Dick Heath ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
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There are certain schools of thought, that make all in sundry "Canterbury" if these musicians have worked with more obvious Canterbury musicians. Hence some think that the presence of Dave Stewart in Bruford, makes Bill Bruford "Canterbury." To pick up on the aforementioned Ed Macan's Rocking the Classics, he has Allan Holdsworth included as "a typical Canterbury guitarist" - as sometime prog and Canterbury scholar : I think not!.
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himtroy ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 20 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1601 |
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It's a widely critisized label, not the music in the genre itselft, but if it's a genre. I think it's not really that connected, but I still refer to many bands as Canterbury bands, because there are similarities. But look at Soft Machine, they all moved to Canterbury shortly before forming the band, so theres no actual connection there either. It's just that a lot of the bands share similar members. Such as Camel containing Richard Sincliar, David Sinclair, and Jan Shelhaas, all having also been in caravan/ |
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PROGMONSTER2008 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: December 09 2007 Status: Offline Points: 610 |
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Yeah Slow yourself down and Six ate have a Santana feel. I really like the first album and I think it is better than Mirage. Sixate, Mystic Queen, Never let go are strong tunes. While Separation, Curiosity are quite good. I think Slow yourself down is musically strong, but latimer's voice sounds funny. Arubaluba is good in bits but a bit simplistic in ideas. But overall the debut is maybe the greatest debut album I've ever heard.
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Dick Heath ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
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'Tosh' as we say in the English home counties. Members of Wilde Flowers and Machine went to Canterbury Grammar School! Robert Wyatt's parent's home in Canterbury became a sanctuary for intinerant artists. Time you read Out Bloody Rageous
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Cesar Inca ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 19 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 4888 |
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Natural Science nailed it big time. CAMEL has connections to teh Canterbury prog scene mostly regarding line-up variations. In terms of style and compositional frameworks, CAMEL is clearly symphonic.
Having said that, it is really clear that Barden's treatment of his Hammond organ sounds are more related to the sort of sound pursued by Canterbury keyboardists from HATFIELD and CARAVAN than to other big names from the standard symphonic trend (Emerson, Wakeman). Also consider that some Canterbury keyboardists felt somewhat influenced by early Emerson (circa The Nice), one of them being the prolific Dave Stewart. It is clear in the EGG albums.
Kind regards.
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