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dtguitarfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Christian Thread
    Posted: February 20 2013 at 11:30
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

^I think you misunderstand my positions, Geoff; I loathe the televangelists' prosperity gospel and shallow teachings.  They're the ones who are heretics.And as someone who has read stuff ranging from Upton Sinclair to G.K. Chesterton, I love reading things from multiple points of view.  Go ahead and list the recommended readings or PM me if you like; I can't guarantee I'll be able to read them very soon (I have a ton of books on my list!) but I'll try to dig into a couple.  Speaking of which, have you ever read anything on the Internet Monk blog?

I didn't mean to presume what you believed. I just know the two authors I am thinking about have been talked about this way, so I thought it fair to throw up the warning. I'll pm you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2013 at 21:19
Originally posted by Jonathan

What Religions/Philosophies are compatible with Christianity?


No other religions are compatible with Christianity.  Scripture makes it clear that God does not tolerate rivals.

Philosophies...well, it depends on what you mean by "philosophy."  If you mean an all-encompassing philosophy, then probably none.  But you can have a philosophy in a more specific field as well.  If we're talking about a "philosophy of politics," for instance, there are several that could be compatible with Christianity.  I'm a fiscal moderate-conservative and a social moderate-libertarian, so I consider that particular (although excruciatingly vague) political philosophy to be consistent with Christianity, as well as libertarianism, liberalism, conservatism, distributism...etc.
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 09:29
HE IS RISEN!
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexDOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 16:55
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

HE IS RISEN!

HE IS RISEN INDEED! 


(sorry for such a late response should have been on top of that. That's the wonderful thing about grace ha ha)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 19:31
^ALLELUIA!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote infocat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2013 at 23:55
oy vey!
Frank Swarbrick
--
Belief is not Truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexDOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2013 at 14:20
Been reading a book called the Harbinger by Johnathan Cahn. Highly highly recommend it. Deals with Biblical prophecy and such. I'll leave it at that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2013 at 21:39
This thread needs to be resurrected, so...

PA Christians:  What is your favorite Psalm (or top 3 or 5 or 10 Psalms) and why?

I've been reading the Psalms a lot lately, and have been astonished at their depth and poignancy.  Some have become very near and dear to my heart, and I wanted to know what Psalms meant that to others.  I'll post mine later.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2013 at 17:34
bump


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2013 at 18:31
Decades after turning my back on my faith and being spiritually adrift, I have begun to re-embrace my Catholic roots.  I do love the Church, the beauty of the mass, and especially the music. 




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2013 at 23:30
^Glad you're finding your way back Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2013 at 07:19
Originally posted by Gerinski

Originally posted by Epignosis

Consider John 6:70, where Jesus calls Judas Iscariot a devil. 

Off topic, but wasn't Judas Iscariot used by god to realise his plan with Jesus? Wasn't he a victim of god's plan? I seem to remember that Jesus said somewhere (was is to Pilate? sorry but Jesus Christ Superstar is the most recent version I have in mind, I read the Bible but it's too long ago Tongue) that the plan of his fate had been laid down by god and nothing could be done to change it? If so Judas Iscariot had no choice but to betray Jesus.
Now I mean this seriously, what is the christian belief as to what did happen to Judas Iscariot? he repented and hung himself, do christians think that he went to heaven or to hell?


As for the last question, I don't think Judas "went" anywhere (but I hold views quite different from mainstream Christianity).

Regarding the larger question (centering on freewill and determinism, as I understand it):

It is commonly argued that "God did not want to make robots, so he gave us freewill."  I think this is a misrepresentation of freewill, that it only exists by some kind of "magic" and no

Freewill exists because of determinism, not in spite of it.  Consider:

I go to a restaurant and I order the chicken dish instead of the lobster dish.  Why did I do that?

-The lobster dish is much more expensive
-I had once lobster before at a different restaurant and did not care for it
-Someone dining with me recommended the chicken dish
-I had seafood for lunch
etc.

Our choices are caused (determined) by hundreds of tiny variables all playing out in real time (relatively speaking).  We don't magically make choices independent of our personality, circumstances, history, prejudices, persuasions, interactions, and beliefs.  And those things in turn are shaped by our choices.  Smile

So given everything that had happened in the universe up to the point you are asking about, Judas would choose to betray Jesus.  Yes, it was still his choice, and yes, he could still be held responsible for it.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2013 at 07:39
Originally posted by Epignosis


Didn't get it but thanks anyway for the reply, we're not gonna solve the freewill mystery here anyway.
BTW a christian not believing in afterlife, heaven or hell, that's interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2013 at 08:17
Originally posted by Gerinski

Originally posted by Epignosis


Didn't get it but thanks anyway for the reply, we're not gonna solve the freewill mystery here anyway.
BTW a christian not believing in afterlife, heaven or hell, that's interesting.


Sorry- to sum it up, humans are organic mechanical beings who make choices based on a large number of variables, just like a robot, only far more complex.

Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly say that a Christian who dies goes to heaven.  I think that is important to point out. 

John 3:16, a well known verse, implies that everlasting life is a gift, not something everyone inherently has.  I've never met a Christian who can explain John 3:16 and square it with their (commonly held) view that everyone has everlasting life, it just matters whether they will spend it in heaven or hell.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2013 at 08:53
Jesus said that the devil "was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).

Question: Is Jesus talking about the entity who tempted Eve into original sin?

If this is true, how was an Angel entrusted by God to oversee the Garden of Eden, chosen if he was a liar and murderer from the beginning? and while we're at it, why would an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent entity need to delegate any task to a lesser being?
It is reported/interpreted that Satan was Gods most precious, beautiful and perfect angel. (As if the latter had favourites?) He was considered  flawless and faultless from the day of his creation, (ain't that the start?) until
'unrighteousness' was found in him. (after the start? and by whom, his boss?)

The foregoing is well documented (albeit subject to eisogetical error) but if a creature is unable to choose between one morality and another by virtue of design i.e. they were engineered by a creator to act unconscionably in one way only, how can their actions be subsequently judged as sinful?.

This makes no sense at all and is tantamount to Biblical GIGO (Garbage In - Garbage Out)


Edited by ExittheLemming - June 06 2013 at 09:17
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2013 at 09:53
Originally posted by Jonathan

What Religions/Philosophies are compatible with Christianity?
 
For me it depends on how one understands 'Christianity'. A literal or Bible believing Christian would say, as some one did in a later post, that none are compatible but a liberal Christian might say that they can be compatible in some way.
 
A fundamentalist Baptist friend who worked for me for a while submitted 3 or 4 questions I had to his church pastor/founder of a local indpendent Christian group who are literalists.
I asked:
If we all came from Adam and Eve why are there 4 distinct groups of humans; caucasian, asian, black, and indian? Shouldn't we all look more alike?
Why did God create dinsosaurs..? How did that work into His fellowship with us?
If God allowed us to have 'free will' , why punish us for using that free will to not believe ? Shouldn't He say fair enough you don't have to believe, but by the Christian faith you go to hell if you don't believe. So then...' you don't have to believe but if you don't I'm sending you to hell'.
Granted the fundies are true literalists but the same basic tenet holds for all Christians as far as I know.
Why give us free will at all....? Seems a bit one sided. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 11:10


Wink
Something's happening, and it makes me so happy!


Edited by dtguitarfan - June 20 2013 at 11:11
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 18:32
Originally posted by dtguitarfan



Something's happening, and it makes me so happy!


Me too.  Hamburgers are cooking!

(There is no way I'm watching a 72 minute Youtube video.  If you would like to sum it up...)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 21:04
I don't have the time to watch the video either, but it's a debate about universal reconciliation, if I understand correctly?  I'll see if I can find the time to watch it in a couple days...

In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2013 at 14:37
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes

I don't have the time to watch the video either, but it's a debate about universal reconciliation, if I understand correctly?  I'll see if I can find the time to watch it in a couple days...


That it is.

Here is another excellent debate on the subject.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33973
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