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refugee 
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 Posted: August 11 2009 at 04:53 |
 topofsm wrote:
Everybody who has contributed so far has added a good reason. I'd agree with that, but I'd also add that repetition has a lot to it. Most bands have one riff in each song and repeat it in groups of four along with a verse in groups of four and a chorus in groups of four. A prog song tends to develop musically, some songs are even symphonic where you are hearing a new musical idea every bar (not necessarily a different mood or feel). In that sense, there isn't something catchy for the listener to grasp on to, and the song takes a lot of exploration to appreciate well. People want a catchy repetitive riff or hook that they're able to sing a long, and explorative composition doesn't lend to that. |
I agree, even though I find a lot of prog to be catchy … after you have listened carefully 5 or 6 times, which most people just don’t do. It’s the same with wine: I can’t understand why people drink alcopops instead (BTW, "alcopop" could be an interesting new genre  ).
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He say nothing is quite what it seems;
I say nothing is nothing
(Peter Hammill)
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Cookie
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 26 2009
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Points: 4
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 05:12 |
Unlike POP this bubble will not burst
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Cookie Monster
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el dingo
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Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 05:31 |
It's easy to dismiss something that takes a while to get into as boring - if you don't get it first time round give up, which a lot of people do. A bit of perseverence pays off - ie I'm not going to pretend i got into KC straight away - it took a while.
And not everyone is prepared to take that while, especially in this wonderful world of instant radio hits.
Mind you, growing up in the late 60s/70s, prog was in the forefront of culture and hence cool - everyone seemed to be into it and hearing new things was commonplace - these days you tend to have to seek out new things. But to me at least, this is part of the fun.
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Darklord55
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Joined: September 08 2007
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Points: 357
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 07:32 |
TheProgtologist wrote:
This is what my wife says about all the classic prog I listen to....
"It all sounds like elevator music"
The problems I have with that statement I can barely put into words.It just sums it up.....most people just don't understand this music we all love so much.
And as far as all the post metal,post rock,progressive death metal,etc. that I listen to,I won't even go into what she says about that stuff.
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Have you been spying on me again?  This is exactly what goes on at my house. I have managed to get her to listen to some PT which she kinda liked. But that's as far as it goes. She's into the 70's and 80's pop s**t. 
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henge
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Joined: July 31 2009
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 07:41 |
Developement time. A typical pop song will hit the chorus within the first minute of the song. As well it will repeat that chorus ALOT! Repetition is key in pop music.
Prog is an artistic expression with not as rigid a structure as pop. You want a 3 minute piano intro, go for it. Want a 4 minute percussion extravaganza? No probs. I think Prog is an art form and good art is always challenging to the listener. Problem is not everybody wants to be challenged. Sometimes you just want to hump Brittany!  |
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Ever heard the one about... New album from Anton Evans, plus gear talk.
http://www.antonevans.com
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JayDee
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 07:43 |
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BeE cUz dEi KeNt stAnD D soUnDz of TEH MELLOW-TRONZ AND TEH UBER LOOOOOONG STRANDZ OF TEH NEW-DELZ. lollolololololololololoL!
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tdfloyd
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Joined: April 06 2008
Location: USA
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 08:22 |
I believe most naysayers use "boring" for a couple of reasons: 1) lack of vocabulary 2) don't like prog and its not worth the effort 3) textitus - write as little as possible to answer a question.
Edited by tdfloyd - August 11 2009 at 23:00
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el dingo
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Joined: October 08 2008
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 08:28 |
tdfloyd wrote:
I believe most naysayers use "boring" for a couple of reasons: 1) lack of vocabulary 2) don't like prog and its not worth the effort 3) textitus - write as little as possible t oanswer a question. |
That's exactly the point - often people who say prog's 'boring' have never made any effort at all to get into it. Try it properly, and if you really don't like it, fine.
I'm like that with lots of prog (and metal) bands - but I'd like to think I've given them a chance before i decide I really don't care for them
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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SergiUriah
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Joined: May 03 2009
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 09:39 |
What makes prog people find other musics boring?
They do not sound interesting for them...
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 09:40 |
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They think it's boring for the same reasons many will think classical music is boring. Complex compositions, that break with rock/pop tradition, in terms of structure, turn people off immediately. It's a 'comfort zone' thing. Often 'boring' is a term to describe something one is merely not used to, or not able to understand.
Each to their own though. I can understand why someone, brought up on music as a means of expressing themselves through dancing, may find Pink Floyd boring.
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The Truth
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 10:11 |
My friends don't find prog boring, they use the term weird.
Edited by The Truth - August 11 2009 at 10:15
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Urik
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 10:47 |
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It just requires training. I understand these people. You see, most music is made of simple 4/4 beats with catchy rhymes and a structure that almost always is the same.
When you show them Prog, you are grabbing a person that all his life has been watching Disney, and you show them Krubick film. They don't have training, they don't understand it, and that's why the won't like it.
I myself have been listening for prog for years, and there still is stuff that I can't understand and don't like. It all is just a matter of what you know and what you understand. You simply can't take away all what they have ever known and give them something long and complex and expect them to love it.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 10:50 |
The explanations are various: 1.- Manipulation: Most people want too be told what is good and what is not in art, I seen people buy a piece of metal junk, because a pseudo informed critic says it's the work of a great artist, when I visited the Louvre, was disappointed by La Gioconda and found works by Rafael Sanzio or Albrech Duhrer mire rewarding, but MOST people say it's the best painting ever because they are told so, and they know little about art. In the same way people who know little about music, need an expert (DJ) to tell them what is good, and of course SJ's will never recommend a Prog album, being that musical industry (who feeds them direct or indirectly) wants to sell their hot and more popular albums. In Perú Prog was terribly sold, until Frágil released the excellent Avenida Larco, being that there was pressure from the Pan Tel (The TV station that produced the album and If I'm not wrong the video), all DJ's talker wonders about this album. I'm sure most people didn't noticed the excellent keyboards or elaborate Symphonic structure, they simply bought it massively because the main song was about hookers, had a great video and experts said it was Good...........I wish all the Prog bands had this chance, Frágil deserves it, but people would not notice the difference between them and the artists being on the peak in 1980. 2.- Instant gratification: Most people see music as an instrument to have fan, call it dance, relax or being cool, they feel that any time spent on finding structures, influences or styles is wasted time, they just want catchy music they can enjoy instantly. We know Prog is not like that, in some cases you must listen an album 4, 7 or 10 times before you really love it (In my case Trespass took me several years), I don't imagine the average teenager making any effort to love some album, they just place it on the CD player and if doesn't capture them instantly, they throw the album. 3.- Status: Yep status, there's an axiom in school, you are as cool as the music you listen and the clothes you wear, if you listen music everybody loves, you will be considered cool, if you like this weird music nobody cares about, you'll probably be c0onsidered a geek. So if you want to be cool, proclaim to the four winds Prog is boring (This is not required, because few people know Prog, you just don't have to listen them). 4.- Time and age: Most of the older guys must have listened the phrase "What are you doing with that music?...ACT LIKE YOUR AGE!!!!!!!" Most people when reaching he 30's acquire a lot o responsabilities, including, work, family, mortgage, and music is only something to be listened during heir reunions as background or to relax,m they want anything but music i which they have to invest time, and Prog requires time. My 2 cents Iván
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Scoppioingola
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 11:17 |
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A very interesting thread. It made me remember a recent personal experience.
I was hanging out with some friends last Friday, and one of them happens to be a fan of indie music. So he proceeds to make us listen to those bands he loves (which I find quite boring indeed, the repetitive riffs, the predictable hooks, the cringe worthy chorus repeated over and over...). After a while, I propose a piece of music which I find absolutely stunning : Fracture, by King Crimson. Ascending and descending arpeggios, the rude Wetton bass, the complex interplay between the violin and guitar at the climax, and of course, Bruford's brilliant drumming; the song has it all. In the first three minutes, all my companions had left me for another room in the house where they simply began to play this same old indie music, and it really made me think.
I remember the first time I listened to Fracture, I hated it, like I hated most of Larks tongues and Red. And even thought your friends are music lovers, chances are, they won't bother trying to find what's so great about those weird sounds and complex structures, because those things sound so alien to them. Of course, King Crimson were always rather hard to swallow, but I'm pretty sure any other band from my prog collection would have done just the same effect to them.
Just my two cents...
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 11:52 |
A lot of people said that prog takes time to settle, it takes a wile, as brilliantly said by Gentle Giant, to Acquire the Taste. However, even those who claim to listen prog do not do that and the IVÁN's post fit this perfectly. For example, in the first topic he raised, entitled Manipulation, can be clearly seen here. How many albums get straight 5 stars or straight 1 star reviews/ratings just because of its hype? Yes, in my case, is a great example of that, because I LOVE Tales from Topographic Oceans and it has the worst rating among classic Yes albums. Obviously most people didn't took the time for that to settle in. Same, in terms, as with The Yes Album (my favorite Yes album). Instead, most people just rush a crappy 5 stars rating/review about Close to the Edge because of the hype. Same thing happens with Genesis's Selling England by the Pound and, for example, Lamb Lies Down and Nursery Crime, which are better albums than SEbtP, IMO. This can also be seen even more clearly in modern/recent releases. Most Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater and The Mars Volta are excellent, just as good or better than most of 70's releases and yet they are mercilessly bashed because people just think the 70's sound is straight better because other people say so. This takes us to the second topic raised by IVÁN, entitled Instant Gratification. Still using those three moderns giants with well-known acronyms, this becomes painfully evident, specially in TMV's case, because their music is so different from everything because it HAS a bit of everything, making them the only TRULY PROGRESSIVE band among the big modern ones, and yet their ratings are, to say the least, laughably discrepant with reality. So, instead of taking the time to appreciate anything new, it is easier just to listen something that reminds the long lost decade, which leads to INSTANT GRATIFICATION. In fact, it is less complicated for someone that already listens to prog to move to other genres of equally challenging music, but the fact is that prog, like most genres of popular music (here, popular music is used as the contrary of classical music), is bound to the same rules as the other genres: manipulation and instant gratification.
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The worst enemy of Progressive Rock is a Progressive Rock fan. |
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Wizbat
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 12:06 |
I,ve noticed a change in what I like to call the musical IQ of the music listener compared to that of earlier times.
I was at a party a couple of years ago and after much imbibement of alcohol etc we all went back to our tents (camping in the back yard, Big party!!) and some of us put music on and I sat down to a bit of Journey, 'Raised on radio' and in the morning a few of my friends said that my music was too much for them and 'freaked them out'.
Now journey is not exactly as extreme or as technical as some music I listen to, I dread to think how they would,ve fared if I,d put on steve vai or Dream theater.
As most of them listen to dance, R&B and all that sh*te I have had to conclude that for whatever reason, these days, most people have less ability to understand anything more than the very basic musical arrangements.
Maybe it,s the air polution....
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My Band. www.limeshark.com
BASS It is big and it is clever
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 12:36 |
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My theory is that people who find prog boring are boring people.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Kestrel
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:18 |
Scoppioingola wrote:
A very interesting thread. It made me remember a recent personal experience.
I was hanging out with some friends last Friday, and one of them happens to be a fan of indie music. So he proceeds to make us listen to those bands he loves (which I find quite boring indeed, the repetitive riffs, the predictable hooks, the cringe worthy chorus repeated over and over...). After a while, I propose a piece of music which I find absolutely stunning : Fracture, by King Crimson. Ascending and descending arpeggios, the rude Wetton bass, the complex interplay between the violin and guitar at the climax, and of course, Bruford's brilliant drumming; the song has it all. In the first three minutes, all my companions had left me for another room in the house where they simply began to play this same old indie music, and it really made me think.
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I largely agree with this. I even find myself doing the same thing: When a friend shows me a song and we're both sitting there listening to it, I tend not to care for it. I often need to listen to it on my own for me to really start to appreciate the music. I know my friends feel the same when I show them music. Also, a friend of mine who doesn't like prog said she doesn't like it because it's too dense. When she listens to music, she wants it to either not be a distraction from homework or a chance to cool down. Which I understand, but why not listen to music for music's sake?
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The Quiet One
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:49 |
Prog President wrote:
At least a 80% of my school, or 80% of all the people who goes to the clubs I go to dance, just say that "prog"(they don't even know that word though) is boring, just because the fact that it's not in the mainstream right now.
If they were living in the 70's, they would definitely "dance", sing-along, and play all day stuff like Floyd.
I don't think they even listen to the music. Not insulting them, all of those are friends of mine, so.... Just telling my observation.
I could give a highly danceable or catchy song to a friend of mine who listens to music that all people like, and still wouldn't "like it" just because the rest doesn't like it.
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This.
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micky
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:49 |
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what makes people find prog boring? easy...
the 85% of modern prog that is complex... but has not a shred of progressiveness (ie.. a semblance of BEING interesting). Blame yourselves for that.. .you propagate the notion by rejecting or mocking suggestions that are progressive... but don't fit the stupid idea of prog= complex music.
Edited by micky - August 11 2009 at 17:50
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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What makes people find Prog boring?
