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TheLionOfPrague 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2011
Location: Argentina
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 Posted: October 22 2015 at 18:42 |
People just listen to whatever sh*t they put in the radio. In the 70's they put Yes, Floyd, ELP, etc. and people listened to it and those bands were popular. If you put them that music now they'll say it's boring because it's not popular. But if the prog classic bands like those I mentioned were releasing albums now instead of the 70's and they were being played on the radio, people would "like" them.
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I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 22 2015 at 20:24 |
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^ Well yes... but your position is a bit fuzzy. People buy what they enjoy listening to, period. 'Pop' music as an approach ~ generally digestible and melodically attractive songs ~ has always been and always will be popular. Even when Prog and Artrock briefly ruled the world we still had Seals & Crofts, McCartney, and ABBA. Whoever attracts the most customers wins. The radio may gamble on certain artists or cuts but it either sells or it don't, and if most people are buying Michael Jackson it's because they like him best, not because he's the coolest or biggest.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Dellinger
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Posted: October 22 2015 at 21:17 |
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I think prog usually has more melodic elements than pop, that's one of the main reasons I like it. Pop has more hooks, or a catchier melody, but usually simpler and shorter and repeated throughout the song. And nowdays, it's common that those pop songs don't even have much of a melody.
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kenethlevine
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Prog-Folk Team
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Posted: October 22 2015 at 22:46 |
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it can take a while for a prog piece to develop, and it can take multiple listens to really sink in. Most people don't have time for that!
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HackettFan
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Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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Points: 7946
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Posted: October 22 2015 at 22:50 |
 TheLionOfPrague wrote:
People just listen to whatever sh*t they put in the radio. In the 70's they put Yes, Floyd, ELP, etc. and people listened to it and those bands were popular. If you put them that music now they'll say it's boring because it's not popular. But if the prog classic bands like those I mentioned were releasing albums now instead of the 70's and they were being played on the radio, people would "like" them.
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We need to table this discussion and carry out this experiment.
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HackettFan
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Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: October 22 2015 at 22:52 |
kenethlevine wrote:
it can take a while for a prog piece to develop, and it can take multiple listens to really sink in. Most people don't have time for that! |
Mmm...some Prog yes, some Prog no.
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TheLionOfPrague
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Joined: March 08 2011
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Posted: October 22 2015 at 23:34 |
Also some people find it boring if a song is long for some reason. I think some stuff from say Yes is pretty accessible, take "And You and I" or "Roundabout", they have a catchy melody and most would like it if they listened to it on the radio I think, but since they're long (for radio standards, not prog) people would get bored halfway through it.
Also Thick as a Brick for example, if instead of a 40 minute song each section was a different song maybe they could be popular, but nobody wants to listen to a 40 minute song. Most regular people like songs and not albums, if not there wouldn't be much difference since it lasts like an average LP. But people want to listen to a 3 minute song and then put something different from another artists, I think 90% of the population don't listen to full albums.
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I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
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Points: 2601
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 00:16 |
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The problem is not with any music but the listener. It's not you it's me.
I've heard lots of R and B, hip hop, metal, blues all forms of jazz, most forms of classical and everything else. And disco and punk as well as music. It's social conditioning (as the original poster indicated). It's what the times are and the current trends.
But if someone finds some music boring the it's the fault of the music. Sometimes you gotta work for it but many listeners (such as they are - you want elitist? You got it...) ... want everything done for them. Perhaps the music has not communicated it's intent to the listener the listener has to take responsibility for their enjoyment.
Sometimes we have to move on from soda and acclimatize ourselves to a fine wine, scotch, bourbon or whatever adult beverage takes your fancy but we do it (largely out of social acclimatization). Vanilla Chai tea for me in a moment.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 00:58 |
^
1)
uduwudu wrote:
The problem is not with any music but the listener. It's not you it's me. |
2)
uduwudu wrote:
But if someone finds some music boring the it's the fault of the music. Sometimes you gotta work for it but many listeners (such as they are - you want elitist? You got it...) ... want everything done for them. Perhaps the music has not communicated it's intent to the listener the listener has to take responsibility for their enjoyment. |
 ... Which is it, (1) or (2)? Does the fault lie with the author or the listener? Also, in (2) you say that if the music is boring, then we should blame it on the author (if that's what you meant by "the fault of the music"). Does that mean that the music isn't boring in the context of (1) when the problem lies with the listener?
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uduwudu
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 01:18 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^
1)
uduwudu wrote:
The problem is not with any music but the listener. It's not you it's me. |
2)
uduwudu wrote:
But if someone finds some music boring the it's the fault of the music. Sometimes you gotta work for it but many listeners (such as they are - you want elitist? You got it...) ... want everything done for them. Perhaps the music has not communicated it's intent to the listener the listener has to take responsibility for their enjoyment. |
... Which is it, (1) or (2)? Does the fault lie with the author or the listener? Also, in (2) you say that if the music is boring, then we should blame it on the author (if that's what you meant by "the fault of the music"). Does that mean that the music isn't boring in the context of (1) when the problem lies with the listener?
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Ah, I see this is my fault in my failed attempt at irony in quoting a social cliche. The "me" is the listener and the "you" is the music. In the context of music being boring the listener needs to up their game a bit; the "fault" is in the music as blame is easily externalized in this situation. Answer is yes.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 01:25 |
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^ Oh, irony! ... OK, got it.
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tamijo
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Location: Denmark
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 03:06 |
Put the question back to yourself. How often do you watch a complicated non hollywood film, compared to how often just digest some "intertainment" movie (ala 007) wich is basicly nonsence but very "easy listning" Do the same test with TV programs, Books, Newspapers, Food, ect. I belive very few people focus on high quality but complex stuff, in all aspects of life. For most people music is not a lifestyle, is just intertainment.
Edited by tamijo - October 23 2015 at 03:11
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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DDPascalDD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 03:37 |
^Well, I think a lot of people (at least here) prefer TV programs of high quality above hollywood films, acclaimed litterature above comic books and rather read an article which really digs the problem than just the newspaper headlines. It's just that many people don't want to experience any real art and have time for it, and that is needed to appreciate it. Some do but then again people with little knowledge about art (which is more and more orinary people) think music is something you can't really analyse. At least much less than for example litterature and paintings. They expect less and with purpose don't pay any attention to lyrics, form or creativeness - don't really need to pay attention to it with more and more pop music.
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Guldbamsen
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Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 03:55 |
Prog fans though are just as stupid/wise as your average pop fan. Doesn't take a high IQ to appreciate prog. One thing s'got nothing to do with the other. I've met professors into Katy Perry as well as intellectually deficient proggers.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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DDPascalDD
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Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 04:15 |
Hasn't the higher art always been more for the somewhat higher educated/intellectual people? Now we all have the oppurtunity to see/hear what we want with the internet and so yes there are of course such examples. I think (although it wasn't what I meant to say in my previous post) it's relatively more higher educated/intellectual people who appreciate higher art.
On another note, you can't reverse it, of course it's true that there are professors listening to what 80% of the population listens to...
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 04:26 |
But who defines high art? A lot of pop nowadays is just as progressive (if not more) as the prog that is being dished out. Intellectuals are just as bound to go for Animal Collective and Liars as they are hooking up with Porcupine Tree or Big Big Train. I really don't think your level of education has anything to do with what you put in your stereo. It may have, but it sure as hell isn't a rule-of-thumb.
I also think most people search for some the same stuff that we prog fans find in our music; they just look to the movies, books, sports, paintings or sex for that matter. I remember one time I was speaking to an old female friend of mine who said that she hated (my) music that was too complicated, but at the same time she told me she was looking for that same kind of complexity in her relationships  I learned a lot from her.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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DDPascalDD
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Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 04:48 |
Wait... Let me think about that. A lot of pop nowadays is maybe more progressive than the prog we praise here all the time? I expect you to know much more about prog than me, you're a retired admin and much longer in all this so I guess you'll have to explain to me.
High art is of course subjective, but if our opinions in this place alone are so different about what is progressive...
Edited by DDPascalDD - October 23 2015 at 04:52
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Toaster Mantis
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Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 04:49 |
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Also, here in Scandinavia 1960s/1970s progressive/psychedelic rock has been undergoing a revival in popularity over the last 5-10 years or so. A while ago I even saw a Danish children's/young adult book mention Frank Zappa quite often, it's a semi-autobiographical story of a teenage girl coming of age in the 1970s - the main character's boyfriend is a fan of Zappa's.
I think a lot of people here exaggerate how publically reviled progressive rock is, but this might be a result of my geographical location.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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DDPascalDD
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Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 04:57 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
I think a lot of people here exaggerate how publically reviled progressive rock is, but this might be a result of my geographical location.
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I can tell you though that in The Netherlands, of the teenagers about 5% knows what progressive rock is. Only a few music fans do. It can be different with other ages and countries.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
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Posted: October 23 2015 at 05:07 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Also, here in Scandinavia 1960s/1970s progressive/psychedelic rock has been undergoing a revival in popularity over the last 5-10 years or so. A while ago I even saw a Danish children's/young adult book mention Frank Zappa quite often, it's a semi-autobiographical story of a teenage girl coming of age in the 1970s - the main character's boyfriend is a fan of Zappa's.
I think a lot of people here exaggerate how publically reviled progressive rock is, but this might be a result of my geographical location.
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I've noticed this too here in Denmark, but then again how many of those are into or even aware of prog rock? They probably know Sigur Ros, Radiohead, Swans, Mars Volta and as you say the more psychedelic acts like Causa Sui. Throw in some experimental metal as well and then you've got 50% of my friends Most of them have absolutely no interest in (and wouldn't call any of the stuff they listen to) prog rock. It is a blurring of the lines methinks. Mostly because the sticker prog has been stretched to embrace all kinds of musics - most of which has nothing to do with what prog originally sounded like.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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What makes people find Prog boring?