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Marty McFly View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: My rating system is using (+) and (-) & 25000 goal
    Posted: September 14 2009 at 14:11

Twenty five thousands members goal beaten. What's next, Fifty k ? :-)

Anyway, there is a line "200,710" ratings and reviews, but can you tell us how many of them are actually reviews (I suppose that rating/review ratio is 3:1. More on well known albums, less on lesser known ones. Also, how many of these members (I have shameful 23504 newbie number, but that's the life of newcomer to business) are active (for example logged in during last month). And amongst those with prog reviewer status, are there those who aren't active anymore ?

If anyone has similar question, please ask, I can't think about all of it alone. And if no one care, then hell, at least there question are there.


Two topics in one guys



Edited by MartyMcFly89 - September 14 2009 at 14:49
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 14:12
I would just be glad to see us going past 30. Where is your signature from?
Trendsetter win!

The search for nonexistent perfection.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 14:48

Good old Blowin Free, you can be always counted on.

Well, my signature is quite noticeable. First it was strip thinner in matter of width, but then I wasn't able to give cover images here, so I extended it proportionally. As you can see from my words, I've done it myself. It took my about 10 minutes in MS Paint, then another 10 to find nice scale, then choose good pictures from my reviews as example of what is in my mind appropriate for certain mark.

As you see, I rate albums with 1-5 scale as others, with majority of 4-5 stars and I'm trying to have about 4 average on all categories. So far, most of them are there. Anyway, because I was thinking a lot about star system, I've decided to do my own approach. For example, if something is in my opinion between 3 and 4 and it's better, then I give 4(-). It's also for sorting those who made it barely to 4 star rating from those who barely escaped from 5 star mark.

So, to answer your question, I got it from nowhere. It's my work, my way of doing reviewing thing. I've tried to be original and to be honest, I quite like this scale. Or maybe it's because I get used to use it. All I have to do now is to edit older reviews and include (-) & (+) here.


So what do you think about it ? 



There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 14:52
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

Good old Blowin Free, you can be always counted on.

Well, my signature is quite noticeable. First it was strip thinner in matter of width, but then I wasn't able to give cover images here, so I extended it proportionally. As you can see from my words, I've done it myself. It took my about 10 minutes in MS Paint, then another 10 to find nice scale, then choose good pictures from my reviews as example of what is in my mind appropriate for certain mark.

As you see, I rate albums with 1-5 scale as others, with majority of 4-5 stars and I'm trying to have about 4 average on all categories. So far, most of them are there. Anyway, because I was thinking a lot about star system, I've decided to do my own approach. For example, if something is in my opinion between 3 and 4 and it's better, then I give 4(-). It's also for sorting those who made it barely to 4 star rating from those who barely escaped from 5 star mark.

So, to answer your question, I got it from nowhere. It's my work, my way of doing reviewing thing. I've tried to be original and to be honest, I quite like this scale. Or maybe it's because I get used to use it. All I have to do now is to edit older reviews and include (-) & (+) here.


So what do you think about it ? 





Trout Mask Replica and Alpha Centauri are amazing albums. Ouch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 15:21

You got me wrong, you can disagree with me that Pendragon's "Not of This World" is in my mind other word for perfection. Or that I see Help! as mediocre album with many promising proto prog traits. 


So please, reason of this thread wasn't to discuss my musical taste. Just the system for rating.

So OffTopic - And as for you, MovingPicture, I'm sorry, I've tried to find something good in it, ANYTHING. But I've failed. And Alpha Centauri, similar case. All I can hope for is that their later work will be better for me.

From 150 ratings, I gave just 2 one stars and these are on this signature. Just two, somebody has to be it. I don't like doing it, but I see it that way. I can speak for Tangerine Dream, some of their work I like. Some of it even for 4 stars. And you know that I'm trying to understand these harder genres. I already give a try to death metal and some of it was at least average for me. That's a significant progress. And normal technical metal, Mastodon's album I like for 5 stars. As for Zeuhl, I've heard their new, K.A. (sorry, it was so far only one I was able to get my hands on), and I like it. I'm still quite afraid, but it gave me hope that Zeuhl is good genre. And for RIO/Avant, try The Plastic People of the Universe from my country (if you will be able to get them, I know them just because of my father), there I'm making progress in some parts. Frank Zappa yes, Czech RIO scene, yes. Some others also, but Captain's Trout will remain. I know you're not alone, a lot of people see it in your way too. But it's not only hard to access, it's also hostile, unreasonably offensive. And in these short glimpses into music I was able to see, I saw nothing just plain NOTHNIG. 




Soooo, please let's back to topic, my rating system (within system of 1-2-3-4-5 stars), not personal tastes.



Edited by MartyMcFly89 - September 14 2009 at 15:28
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 15:34
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

Good old Blowin Free, you can be always counted on.

Well, my signature is quite noticeable. First it was strip thinner in matter of width, but then I wasn't able to give cover images here, so I extended it proportionally. As you can see from my words, I've done it myself. It took my about 10 minutes in MS Paint, then another 10 to find nice scale, then choose good pictures from my reviews as example of what is in my mind appropriate for certain mark.

As you see, I rate albums with 1-5 scale as others, with majority of 4-5 stars and I'm trying to have about 4 average on all categories. So far, most of them are there. Anyway, because I was thinking a lot about star system, I've decided to do my own approach. For example, if something is in my opinion between 3 and 4 and it's better, then I give 4(-). It's also for sorting those who made it barely to 4 star rating from those who barely escaped from 5 star mark.

So, to answer your question, I got it from nowhere. It's my work, my way of doing reviewing thing. I've tried to be original and to be honest, I quite like this scale. Or maybe it's because I get used to use it. All I have to do now is to edit older reviews and include (-) & (+) here.


So what do you think about it ? 



Are you volunteering to create a website that generates these charts for people, like Mike does with the ProgFreak charts?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 15:41

Uh, (to use your signature), pardon ?

In case of serious meaning, I'm not skilled in webmastering, webhosting, doing web pages, keeping it alive and after all, I don't really know what you're talking about (with all due respect, which I truly have for you). When I saw that implementing 1/2 star ratings system would be impossible to do, I've decided to do my system within PA system. It's not breaking rules, it's more like something similar to Sean Trane's 3.5 stars really signature (he uses it a lot, he's well known for that here).

In case of irony, I don't really know what to say.


Am I doing something wrong, harming something/someone, not understanding something important ? I'm really confused now. I just wanted to think about this system in public, talk with people about it.

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 15:45
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

Uh, (to use your signature), pardon ?

In case of serious meaning, I'm not skilled in webmastering, webhosting, doing web pages, keeping it alive and after all, I don't really know what you're talking about (with all due respect, which I truly have for you). When I saw that implementing 1/2 star ratings system would be impossible to do, I've decided to do my system within PA system. It's not breaking rules, it's more like something similar to Sean Trane's 3.5 stars really signature (he uses it a lot, he's well known for that here).

In case of irony, I don't really know what to say.


Am I doing something wrong, harming something/someone, not understanding something important ? I'm really confused now. I just wanted to think about this system in public, talk with people about it.

No irony in my question - I was curious as to how this would be implemented.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 15:46
^ah, now I understand.

I think that's okay, Rob(TGM: Orb) also has something in that style in his 'biography'.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 16:35

Well, I little bit expected this, that it will be already used. At least it's entirely from my head, because TGM's biography, nor profile I haven't visited. Yet.

I did, now. He's doing it in little bit different way. But using him as an example for this, he uses normal ratings (as I understand it) and explains it by words in review. But I actually uses this in final rating, while making excuses with (+) and (-). This is wonderful, I can use it as excuse, as a way how to do it, as a little bit of philosophy, general rule how to decide about rating ...



Dean, I would like to. But if my skills are in something, then words are the thing. But even this will be threatened soon I'm afraid. Two weeks and I'll start attending university, studying English language (my favourite), so even less time. But after all, why to implement this. I suppose that I don't have copyright on that system. Everyone is free to use it in their reviews, I will know that I was first and that's all concerning me is over.

But if you talk about this actual image, I've done it manually. However, it can be done automatically, justt make form of blank scale (I like these colors, they're so ... natural), keep space of about 80x80 (or my have 77x77 for each album and let people insert images (in square format of course, 200x200 for example) and that's it, your signature will be complete. If this is what you mean. 

Please use more words to make sure I understood you correctly. I like long texts :-)

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 17:45
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

You got me wrong, you can disagree with me that Pendragon's "Not of This World" is in my mind other word for perfection. Or that I see Help! as mediocre album with many promising proto prog traits. 


So please, reason of this thread wasn't to discuss my musical taste. Just the system for rating.

So OffTopic - And as for you, MovingPicture, I'm sorry, I've tried to find something good in it, ANYTHING. But I've failed. And Alpha Centauri, similar case. All I can hope for is that their later work will be better for me.

From 150 ratings, I gave just 2 one stars and these are on this signature. Just two, somebody has to be it. I don't like doing it, but I see it that way. I can speak for Tangerine Dream, some of their work I like. Some of it even for 4 stars. And you know that I'm trying to understand these harder genres. I already give a try to death metal and some of it was at least average for me. That's a significant progress. And normal technical metal, Mastodon's album I like for 5 stars. As for Zeuhl, I've heard their new, K.A. (sorry, it was so far only one I was able to get my hands on), and I like it. I'm still quite afraid, but it gave me hope that Zeuhl is good genre. And for RIO/Avant, try The Plastic People of the Universe from my country (if you will be able to get them, I know them just because of my father), there I'm making progress in some parts. Frank Zappa yes, Czech RIO scene, yes. Some others also, but Captain's Trout will remain. I know you're not alone, a lot of people see it in your way too. But it's not only hard to access, it's also hostile, unreasonably offensive. And in these short glimpses into music I was able to see, I saw nothing just plain NOTHNIG. 




Soooo, please let's back to topic, my rating system (within system of 1-2-3-4-5 stars), not personal tastes.



Haha, I wasn't intending on saying anything about your musical taste. You had said to me before that you didn't like TMR at all; I wasn't being serious. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2009 at 23:57

Well, these things sounds funny now, but I took them seriously then. Probably because of upcoming school.

So let's back too ground (-) and (+), I've said a lot here, now it's your turn.

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2009 at 21:22
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

Well, these things sounds funny now, but I took them seriously then. Probably because of upcoming school.

So let's back too ground (-) and (+), I've said a lot here, now it's your turn.

 
Is that a picture of Ars Nova "Seventh Hell" in your sig? Any impressions about it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 09:24

more in PM  Crimson, I want to keep this threat clean. I'll be glad to talk with you, but somewhere else.


Well, I guess that I'll simply keep on using this system. I kinda like it, gives me a lot of space to decide, while I'm acting according to rules.



Edited by MartyMcFly89 - September 17 2009 at 09:25
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 09:49
I think it's great.
Trendsetter win!

The search for nonexistent perfection.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 12:14

Now I don't know if to edit older reviews and implement new rating system too, or to keep it as it is.

Also, what system determines final rating in your head ?

And second also, do you sometimes have feeling, that your word dictionary is quite limited ? I never had, but as I'm reviewing, I found myself in this situation.


OK, now native speakers, please count mistakes in this post. Please, do it for me :- ) you know, few days till university education starts (English language), so I want to know where I stand.

Hehe, funny thing is that there's a guy, who said to me, that he can't speak English (much), but he's sure going to learn. He's either brave, or foolish, to study English language for teaching.

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 12:37
Sometimes when I review I feel I've already repeated the same thing for a million times, but sometimes I know it's wrong.
Trendsetter win!

The search for nonexistent perfection.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 12:42
I'm probably missing the point, but I'm not sure how the plus or minus is that different from other proposals that suggest a ten star rating or half-stars, and those who say 4.5 in their reviews.  And use an online thesaurus. I use it when copy-editing theses.

I'm not much of a reviewer (used to write film reviews), but if I was, and I cared enough, then I might use a different system for ratings.  Give, say ten points to different criteria for the ratings then divide the total number to get the rating. Similar to what is done at RatingFreak (but I haven't been using that site, though I should)

For instance (and I've come up with better lists in the past):

Progressiveness/ innovation/ originality: 10 points
Prog by degree: 10 points
Musicianship: 10 points
Production: 10 points
Compositional skill: 10 points
How it compares to others in the category: 10 points
How it compares to others by the band if applicable: 10 points
How much you just plain like it: 10 points
Overall complexity: 10 points
Historical importance/ impact: 10 points
etc, and whatever. 

These are not the fields I would use, and would change the fiels depending on the album, but something like it.  I think it helps as a loose framework to give one's rating and review more perspective.  One that I think that really should be factored in somehow is one's familiarity with the style

So one might come up with 3.7 to add to the review. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 13:24
Getting back to your rating system, how does it relate to the current rating system criteria (which I find flawed, but still in the few I've done have used it well enough as a rough guide)?  I'll add the plus minus points to the descriptions, and adapt the current ones. Something like this:

PLUS Essential for every Prog collection (no matter what Prog you're into): an undeniable masterpiece of progressive rock music and anyone who denies it's a masterpiece is an idiot!
MINUS:  Essential for every this album's Prog category collection: masterpiece of this category's music
42%
PLUS: Excellent addition to any well-rounded prog rock music collection
42%
MINUS: Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection from its category
26%
PLUS: Certainly good, but non-essential album for a well-rounded Prog collection
MINUS: Quite good, but non-essential album from its category and in so-called Prog generally
15%
PLUS: Collectors/fans of this artist and category only
MINUS: Collectors/fanboys and fangirls of this artist only
4%
PLUS: Poor. Only for completists (though may be of the so bad it's good variety)
MINUS: Only for masochists. Even completists will find this to be utter crap (music of the so bad it's horrendous variety). If anyone likes this, they should seek immediate medical assistance.

What do you think?


Edited by Logan - September 17 2009 at 13:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 14:25
One of the advantages of this system that I *do like* is that there is no "middle" rating - the average falls between 3(-) and 3(+) - which is a *good thing* since it prevents lazy voting and avoids the 3-star stigma that seems to happen with albums here. (ie there is the impression that 3-stars=bad when it just means the album is average)
 
 
 
 
however...I'm trying (in my head) to convert this into purely numerical system with a linear graduation that matches our 5-star system and I don't think it works:
 
1(-) would be equal to our 1-star (since that is the lowest of both systems)
and
5(+) would be equal to our 5-star (since that is the highest of both systems)
then
the interval between each step is (5-1)/(10-1) ... 4/9 ... or 0.44444444444
 
...so it is not a half-point system, nor is it a thirds-point system since there is no midpoint score between (-) and (+) [ie it's not a 15-point scale]
 
What that means is while 3(-) and 3(+) are equally symetrical around 3-star, 1(±),2(±), 4(±) and 5(±) are not equally symetical around 1, 2, 4 & 5-stars respectively.
 
So the gap between 4 and 4(+) is smaller than the gap between 4 and 4(-) but the gap between 2 and 2(+) is bigger than the gap between 2 and 2(-).
 
Now, whether that is relevant or not is another question - what it does mean is that we could not implement this system within the ratings database since there would be no way of automatically converting the existing ratings over to these ratings - but that does not mean that people couldn't use it in their review text - but if they do that what is the advantage over anyother "personal" system?
 
Ignoring the mathematics and just looking at the pictorial representation of the scale as a signature - It certainly looks pretty, but I don't think I'd want to "advertise" albums I don't like in my signature. (it is also IMO too big, but that's purely personal esthetics)
 
 
 


Edited by Dean - September 17 2009 at 14:26
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