King Crimson album remixes to be continued

Eapo_q42 wrote: For anyone who bothered with the 40th anniversary edition remix of In The Court... Is there any point? I have the 35th anniversary remaster, and the original master from before that, and I am really wondering just what exactly Steven Wilson could possibly do to make me spend my money again. Any opinions?

As a prog fan you need at least 3 editions of this one right?
So I bought the 40th edition because I only had the LP and the agonizing first CD issue.
Besides I adore good 5.1 mixes and in that respect it sure does not disappoint.

I hardly hear a difference between the new stereo mix and the 35th anniversary edition though, so if you're not into 5.1 surround, save your money.

I don't have a 5.1 system, does anybody know if the new Lizard mix is worth the little extra money over the 2004 version? I remember reading Fripp talking about how impressed he was with what SW had done (and maybe they found some master tapes?), but Fripp seems to be very bitter about that album so I don't know.

Edited by Henry Plainview - March 03 2010 at 18:51

I, fortunately, refrained from buying the 2004, so the question is whether it's worth the extra $7. I don't buy new remasters of albums I already own. And I use headphones--stereos are way too expensive. But the headphones are killing my tinnitus. :(

harmonium.ro wrote: Vibrationbaby wrote: I like to hear the music the way it was meant to be heard. He likes to hear it the way it was not meant to be heard. The way that the early KC music was supposed to be heard was that which can be found on these remixes. The fact that you keep posting this kind of remarks only shows that you didn't even bother to read something about what's happening. I'll say it in a few words: the music of KC was supposed to be a very rich, layered music. There were a lot of instruments but mixers only had 8 tracks at the time. So because there were a lot more sounds happening than 8 tracks could receive, what they did during the mixing was to record the content of two original tapes together on one new tape. That meant that two different sounds from two different tapes were now on the same tape, occupying only one channel instead of two. After that, they put two of these new tapes and recorded them together, obtaining one tape that had the contents of four original master tapes. Each of these processes was a downgrade in sound quality. The music of KC was supposed to be rich, but because of the current state of technology, they had to choose between a simple music with less instruments (but captured in it's full sound) or keeping all those instruments and layers but with a compromise on quality. They chose the second version. Soon new mixers were invented, with more than 8 tracks (now, with digital mixers, the number of tracks to be mixed can be infinite), but the master tapes weren't found. They thought they lost the master tapes. So after 30 years of so someone accidentally finds the master tapes and the mixing can be re-done, with a channel for each sound. The way that it supposed to.

Actually I do keep up. I'm on the DGM list so I can't help it!. Don't care very much for Fripp's wife's band The Humans.

You don't get my point.
My point is that I was around at least a few years after the originals and basically that's all I know. It was good anough for me then iT's still good enough for me. I actually went out and bought ITCOTCK when it first came out and as you know it was pretty dssapointing. I think this was even before Fripp won his legal battles with EG and was able to have final say on things Crimson. I have heard the first remixes of ITCOTCK done with the found tapes and seven then still didn't really make a difference to me. I've even heard some of the other stuff my friend the audio junkie has. It's funny this guy will go out and buy remastered sh*t just for the bloody sound. Even if he doesn't like the music.

My point is, as I said earlier, is the fact that everything wasn't always to scratch back in the old days. For me  all the anomalies and difficulties of the day gives the music another dimension and personality. My record collection drives my friend Marco the audio junkie nuts. He can't beleive that I can listen to an original pressing of something like Tubular Bells which was one of the first albums avialable in the Audiophile editions that started come out in '77 or  '78. He can't understand how I can even listen to the ticks and scratches. I just tell him I'm listening to the music. There's even music  that doesn't sound right to me without the ticks & scratches! I'm just nostalgic. An incurable romantic. Whoa! there goes my rotary phone ringing!

The work progresses...

First pass through Formentera Lady. This is a rock group?!! More air is now being added to the left channel, 20k up from 17k. Not of itself audible to most adult ears, this has effect on the higher harmonics of lower tones. More, we sense that something has changed, rather than hearing a change.

....

How is the remixing of In The Wake Of Poseidon coming:



A morning through-listen to ITWOP  – the album.

Pictures Of A City, Cadence & Cascade, Peace A Theme, Cat Food & Groon are superb, and have never sounded better at any time I have listened to them, including in the studio when they were recorded. Taken together, these are half of the wonderful second KC album that didn’t. ITWOP – the song is now listenable, even enjoyable, but not classic.

The Devil’s Triangle: a suite in 3 parts. The first part is now listenable, and not bad. The second is barely listenable, but I would rather not. The third is listenable & begins well, but I am then grateful when it goes away. I would happily delete this from the album. But, while this is acceptable on a compilation, it’s not acceptable when re-presenting the album.

http://www.dgmlive.com/diaries.htm?entry=16996



ITWOP – the stereo Wilson-Fripp remixed album. Significant moves forward from last week. Now, it is listenable throughout with stunning musicianship from Michael Giles, Mel Collins & Keith Tippet. Even The Devil’s Triangle  works. We have inserted PQ points for each of the three parts of the DT suite, to aid those who might like to move it along to the third part; where popular music forms drop into the black hole & disappear with 1969, which never quite got into 1970, along with a pile of sea-going vessels.

Fine-tuning continues & incremental advances have significant effect, even to a surprising degree.

11.51    Simon: This is the first time I’ve listened through to this album right. Simon has listened through to this album on several occasions for some years. This value-judgment is also true for me, and I’ve been listening to it for a lot longer.

13.02    We have also mastered some added-value tracks, not all of which add personal value. But then, I am not much interested in the gory history of alternative versions. Neverthless, if I were, I would be thrilled by an early trio Devil’s Triangle prior to multi mellotron-overdubs. In some ways it is stronger than the final mix I…

http://www.dgmlive.com/diaries.htm?entry=17020



Today’s work: ITWOP - the album in 5.1. The problem we have faced with The Devil’s Triangle is our inability to find the original multi-tracks, leaving us with the original stereo mix. Simon’s masterly touch, along with Penteo has polished the job. DT I, II & III are now tickled. If allowed a radical option, I would delete DT II & move from I straight to III. But probably that would be too much for most of those who continue to fondle vinyl sleeves in private rooms. An earlier attempt by Simon & Robert is recounted in the Diary for Tuesday, 7th September 1999.

Onto the 5.1 of Beat. Neal & Jack & Me – Absent Lovers. This belongs to utterly different time & space than Poseidon & Islands.

Much werning & twerning continues as Beat moves through Heartbeat, Turkish D (original name), Waiting Man & now Neurotica.

Onto added-value tracks for the Islands DVD & CD. Taken together, these are somewhere between added-value, historic-interest, and cruel-and-unnatural punishment.

http://www.dgmlive.com/diaries.htm?entry=17021


Edited by harmonium.ro - March 29 2010 at 21:28

Vibrationbaby wrote: Why doesn't Fripp just get the band back together and make a new album? I still don't understand what the point is behind all these remasters. If you're familiar with any of Larry Coryell's work you'll find literally tons of musical mistakes and glitches in the recordings. He just shrugs it off and says oh well, I f**ked up. I would like to see one of those so and so vs so and so threads with Coryell vs Fripp. Coryell is one guitarist that can hold his own with anyone bar none. warning! warning! off topic! off topic! As much as I love King Crimson's music I just think all this remastering is just getting well... stupid.

How do you know what Larry said; besides this remixing isn't about fixing mistakes or Glitches.

Fripp also talks a lot on his blog about his albums, quite often noting errors or things he doesn't like any more. Some are even granted the "unbearable" epithet. 

I mean, did leonardo go back and change the Mona Lisa because the background was too uneven. "Unbearable" Sometimes I think Bob is losing his marbles with old age.

Look at Francis Bacon. He destroyed most of his works he did in the 40s. Maybe Fripp should just destroy everything Crimson then he wouldn't have to be worried about it being "unbearable".