Magma´s ideology controversy. Read this!

A lot of bands has used nazi images up through the years. The US metal band Slayer is the most known exponent. Their Angel Of Death anthem landed them in trouble. It is a pity that all four Slayer members would had been sent straight to the gas chamber if the nazis got their way.

I am not jumping to any conclusion before I hear it directly from the man himself. But in general terms, Zeuhl is a sick, deranged form of music which plays on totalitarian ideology in the music itself (the marching boots like rhythms). Due to the music itself, nothing would surprise me.   

SaltyJon wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Starhammer wrote: Sorry for resurrecting this thread from the tomb of Emmehnteht-Re, but have you noticed that there is a swastika on the cover of Magma's first album? Yes. Did you notice there is a representation of a mad world on the cover of Magma's first album? ^ What he said.  Plus, there are actually two swastikas on there.

And there's the eagle talon which is a traditional symbol of Germany's coat of arms.



The cover is hardly a happy picture.

And of course the Vander vocalising from Kobaia's "Stoah" which is clearly reminiscent of  Hitler.

There are plenty of Nazi elements/ parallels which have been incorporated into the Kobaian mythology, but I would not call such story-telling an endorsement of Naziism (e.g. Theusz Hamtaahk (Time of Hate).

As long as Vander did not make any public apology of fascism (which I believe he never did), what he thinks or hangs in the walls in the privacy of his bedroom is his business.

So there is...

Nazis being crushed? Is not the point of the Kobaian story that Earth is a self destructive and evil place. Or that Kobaia is a planet that is a utopian escape from all this and that the destruction of Nazism (as depicted) is a good thing?

Is it likely that Coltrane fans would be Nazis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Couldn't find a mention of Magma...

Rocktopus wrote: moebius wrote: Response from a german Magma fan (worth reading) http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/response-from-olvator-of-hamburg.html I disagree. This fan is hurt  because Magma/Vander uses nazirelated quotes and images. Well, I assume  they do this to create their complex art concerning war, destruction, good, evil and so on. He demands an apology because he's been exposed to an image of an Albert Speer building, and what might be an extract from a Goebbles speech! He doesn't seem to take into consideration about how or why its used, or that its presented within a context. This is nothing to come out and apologize for.

In my first post, I was quoting this text, but it didn't come along.

uduwudu wrote: First, the skin heads used in the movie took it a little too seriously. This is mentioned in interviews with makers of the Wall. Some critics also took it a little too literally. Y'know, portray something therefore you belive it. The use of derogatory terms was also taken seriously and literally. I think some people forget things are art and get taken in by them. The skinheads are one thing but critics are supposed to have at least a modicum of education. I once saw a woman in a bookstore holding a book that was a history of the Nazi SS. She said it was disgusting. I thought the book was as far as I could tell an accurate history of the Nazi organisation. But she took it to mean it was a glorification. (Presumably because it looked nice...)

interesting--  clearly the Nazi-like imagery in The Wall is not in support of it (in fact it holds it up to mockery), but I'm sure there are people who both don't understand that and object, or don't understand that and like it. 

Either way, they don't get it.

As to the use of Nazi-like imagery, as I said in an earlier post, it could be a purely aesthetic matter - Pink Floyd did much the same on The Wall, and no one thought they were Nazis.

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Not quite Raf. First, the skin heads used in the movie took it a little too seriously. This is mentioned in interviews with makers of the Wall. Some critics also took it a little too literally. Y'know, portray something therefore you belive it. The use of derogatory terms was also taken seriously and literally.

I think some people forget things are art and get taken in by them. The skinheads are one thing but critics are supposed to have at least a modicum of education.

I once saw a woman in a bookstore holding a book that was a history of the Nazi SS. She said it was disgusting. I thought the book was as far as I could tell an accurate history of the Nazi organisation. But she took it to mean it was a glorification. (Presumably because it looked nice...)

With things like facism and National Socialism one has to be very careful. There is a very powerful element and when it's out in public there is little control over outcome.

These views have been dpoing the rounds for decades. Vander loves Coltrane's jazz - who wouldn't. They even did A Love Supreme.

The press originated (or lat least the idea was originated within the press) since the first concerts performed with the members wearing black and only the logo showing. There's no real substance and I think it's just a publicity  - not stunt - but event Vander has allowed to perpetuate.

let's face it Magma are not exactly an easy sell to the mainstream. or even out here in prog rock land.

Still there's plenty of rock for Nazi gossip. Clapton's chat about Enoch Poell being right for Jamaican citizens not finding the UK a good home for non Caucasian folks. He even used to call a black man a spade. Very odd considering his influences and associates.

The aforementioned Bowie doing his Nazi salute in London's another.

It's good to talk about this though. The facism of political correction usually has people scared to say a word that could be misinterpreted.

But as for Magma, part of the Magma Kobaia story involves annihalation and the Nazi's were pretty good at this. Mind you so was Stalin who did in more than 4 x what the Nazis amanged. But communism never had such a poular image as the Nazis....

... the above observatrion hopefully should illustrate why I think Vander has pretty much allowed these ideas to continue. It's image and associated perception.

Lucky this does not effect the music of Jannick Top! Not even producing Celine Dion can do that!

I really don't care, and that's coming from someone who's Jewish himself.

If Magma turn out to be Nazis, then f**k the members of Magma, but I'll continue to love their music and hope that they produce more.

As a metal fan, I've had to learn to put up with arrogant and racist ideology. I listen to plenty of bands who, albeit amazing musicians, spread a lot of negative beliefs.

But yeah, I really don't care... I try to keep the music separate from their ideas, which isn't too hard with a band that I can't even begin to understand what they're saying like Magma.

Who cares what they believe?