Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Blogs
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - There's no such thing as prog
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

There's no such thing as prog

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Daytona, FL, US
Status: Offline
Points: 10860
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: There's no such thing as prog
    Posted: December 27 2015 at 02:38
^ A-ha. Makes sense now. Thanks.
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Status: Offline
Points: 35904
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2015 at 02:34
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

1)
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Prog ... is not really an "amalgam" or "hybrid" of two or more musics.
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

That's Fusion, or sometimes 'World music'
What's the difference between the two?

Nothing Prog isn't fusion or world music either, by making David's comment into bullet-points you've kinda changed what he said. Un-bulletted he has said, and I paraphrase, '[Jazz-Rock] Fusion, and sometimes World Music is an amalgam or hybrid of two or more music styles'.

Prog is not a Jazz-Rock fusion, it remains resolutely Rock even though it employs compositional techniques from Jazz, in the same way that it remains Rock even though it borrows stylistic motifs (and less commonly, employs compositional techniques) from Classical music.


New album for 2015: edge
Back to Top
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Daytona, FL, US
Status: Offline
Points: 10860
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2015 at 20:03
1)
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Prog ... is not really an "amalgam" or "hybrid" of two or more musics.

2)
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

That's Fusion, or sometimes 'World music'
What's the difference between the two?




Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 26 2015 at 20:03
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 6829
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2015 at 16:36

Hi,

As I mentioned before, I cam to a lot of this stuff via a huge collection of classical music that was innovative enough to even have Stockhausen, Britten, Davies and eventually the likes of Carlos.  Sadly, I think that the advent of rock and jazz music in those days, klilled classical music  because the names disappeared over night.  

Not for me.

I had little English at the time, and very bad communication skills what with being in high school, thrown in the 9th grade, only knowing "hello", and "how are you" ... and no one to communicate with  that could help expand the language learning and experience, other than what one might consider force feeding. At the time, film was my baby ... and I loved Lean, Kubrick, Fellini and Bunuel, because I could catch them every Sunday night at the Rathskeller ... but in no time, music was becoming bigger and bigger, and i would say that "Hey Jude" was one of the first for me, although we had Beatles and Stones and Ray Charles in Brazil, since 1965.

What was important for me, and some of this "new music" was that it gave me a chance to help identify what it was that they meant. It was harder to figure it out, when it was just a song with lyrics on top, and the same musical theme under it, which made it ... very difficult ... so the emotion is the same all the time? Where is the individuality that all the literature and music at our house was saying existed?

Here, a lot of popular music failed ... it had nothing but short songs, that meant even less than their relative time span. And there were some albums, that I got personally attached to, even though I still did not know what the lyrics meant. Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed//Janis Joplin and the Holding Company - Cheap Thrills//Jimi Hendrix Experience - Are you experienced?//Procol Harum - Wider Shade of Pale//Crosby Stills Nash and Young - First// Creedence Clearwater Revival - First//Iron Butterfly - In a Gadda Da Vida// and a couple of others. All of these, were a lot "less" on the song side of things, and a lot more on the "DEEP' and "intense" side of things. To me, this was excellent, and helped me learn a bit more about English, while at the same time, I learned that the variations in the music itself, was kind of on par with the incredible wide tastes and variances on the classical music that I enjoyed ... I loved the most melodic of them all (Puccini) and then the weirdes of them all (Stravinsky), and this was ... how do I reconcile the two extremes?

You don't ... it's the same person ... ask Donald Duck or Bugs Bunny!

In 1972, after having just moved from Madison, WI and experienced first hand a major school in America with its issues against the "establishment", including police attacking students in Madison, and the ROTC on campus turning against the students, and us getting frisked going in and out of the Rathskeller where I worked ... and hearing ... that a girl was shot in a school not too far from here, and being that we were seeing lots of guns on the hands of people whose morals and aesthetics were very screwed up! And they were just shooting, like we saw them do it in Chicago only a couple of hours south of us!

Your life changes. You move to California. Now, you have a shock experience ... half of life is a fad, the music is only cool when it is on the top 10 and fashionable, and you have to do what everyone else does to be hip and cool ... and you knew right away, that this was messed up. Some of the music lost its strength for me, and while I like The Doors, almost all the other bands from California took a dive ... they lost it and lost it big ... they sold out! You could see it! It was so obvious ... show off your Cadillac, show off your jewells, show off .. anything you can ... and luckily, through a good friend and roomate, I ended up "back in Europe" listening to different things that showed that "meaning" was important, and not just another joint, or a beer!

And this was the difference for me. "Progressive" became the more important and meaningful music for me ... the rest was lost and gone.

And to me, that was the difference!

... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 6829
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2015 at 15:48
Hi,
 
From Prog to Revelations!
 
Now I know why the Rock Hall of Shame will never list "progressive" or "prog" ... because it changes and that change can not longer be a valid description of the genre.
 
We should have known that the word itself is what is hurting. Even "psychedelic" fits better, although we do not like the drug association, and that association is a bit off key anyway, because many of the folks that played it were not stoned or ripped!
 
What a mess this world is! Where do we start cleaning it up? I always thought if any one singe place was good for this, the best would be here at ProgArchives, and that many of the people here could/should/might want to assume a bit of responsibility for it ... but instead, we allow Wikipaedia to be the one to make the terms and the history of it all. Maybe it's impossible to get all of us in one room and not enjoy a cup of tea or a beer. Nothing I would love more ... and meet everyone! The ultimate sense ... of "progressive".
 
Heart
 
Censored


Edited by moshkito - December 26 2015 at 15:52
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
progpositivity View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: December 15 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 253
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progpositivity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2015 at 22:01
I'm 99.99999% in agreement with you.   But I suppose the points of distinction are what fuel the conversation, right?  So, rather than stating "Yes!" over and over to a lot of your statements, I'll just jump right into those points of distinction.  :-)
a) Something which relies upon the melding of different categories still "exists" in its own right IMO...  For example, Asian fusion cuisine does "exist" as a style of food that is distinctly different from "Asian food".   I would defend the usage of the term because if that term did not exist, I would be perhaps unpleasantly surprised to show up at an "Asian" restaurant only to discover a lot of different ethnic "twists and turns" with no "purist" options available.  Not only do the foods taste different.  There is a functional purpose for using different labels to describe them.
 
It is true that had there been no "Asian" food in the first place, "Asian fusion" (as we know it) would not exist (unless someone invented it in which case we would have called it something totally different and would have contextualized its existence in totally different terms). 
 
But, my point is that there WAS indeed "Asian" food and there IS indeed now "Asian Fusion" food.  So IMO it does "exist".  Just not in a self-contained vacuum. 
 
OK - probably just semantics.  Not too much to that point I guess...
 
b) Hopefully this point will be more interesting....
 
Theoretically, progressive music *can* stretch the boundaries of music without intentionally drawing from any particular pre-defined genre or template.  In practice, it most often integrates elements from other pre-established genres but not always.   (Unless, of course you have a 'catch all' category for 'experimental' or 'new frontiers' which forces everything to fall into a category for tidiness sake...) 
 
c) Precious few artists and almost no music styles live 100% in self-contained vacuums.   That's just not the way human beings work.  We are constantly being influenced (to some degree often even unconsciously) by our experiences.   Again, pragmatically speaking, PROG depends to a much greater degree upon cross-pollination as an ingredient of its DNA.  So I do know where you are coming from.
 
As a side note, the blossoming of what I consider to be the PROG aesthetic over the last 20 years has in some ways caused the "prog rock" genre to more tightly focus itself as either more "ambitious" music structurally or a kind of "retro" classic prog format.
 
In some ways, I feel like we've entered a post-prog environment.  Artists and genres owe a lot to prog without being considered even "prog related" any longer.  To them, deviating from the mainstream "rock" template comes naturally.   With the barriers to recording and distribution both reduced, concept albums and unconventional arrangements abound.  It is no longer very "proggie" to do some of these "artsy" things.
 
It is a great time for music but ironically, a good portion of the music that had some "progginess" to my ears in the context of the time of its release (late 70's, 80's, early 90's) no longer is all that musically distinguishable from music that no longer is all that proggie.
 
Great post.  I need to come back and select my favorites from your wide selection of alternative terms for progressive music! 
Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7!
http://www.progpositivity.com
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 53088
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2015 at 21:04
I think we did the whole diagram thing years ago, Dean might've come up with one.   But yours works too.

Let's get one thing straight:  Prog is a byproduct of Psychedelic Rock.   Period.   It is not really an "amalgam" or "hybrid" of two or more musics.   That's Fusion, or sometimes 'World music'


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Polymorphia View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Online
Points: 7499
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2015 at 21:01
The rock moniker comes from the tradition of rock, not necessarily the sound. That said, "jazz rock" fusion comes from the jazz tradition and therefore cannot truly be called "rock." That could stand for other subgenres/bands. But overall, the term was largely meant to describe rock bands progressing from rock. A starting point rather than a sound.
Back to Top
BrufordFreak View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team

Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 1404
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2015 at 20:01
This week I read through an old discussion thread on ProgArchives that was started by "TheGazzardian" back on April 2, 2010 that was entitled, "There is no such thing as prog." I was also researching multiple posts and discussions about the 'official' and personal definitions of "prog" or "progressive rock." Also, I'd been thinking about my own recent post on what elements of rock'n'roll should or are required/expected within the prog rock world. This got me started trying to actually make the Venn diagram of prog that I'd been talking about for a while.


A Venn Diagram


First, I put a big circle on a piece of paper with the word "progressive rock" inside. Then I put a circle next to that one in a way that about 30-40% overlapped (or intersected) with the "prog" sphere and labeled it "Rock'n'Roll." Next to this I drew another circle overlapping the same 30-40% with the "prog" circle, named it "Jazz" but realized that this one also needed to overlap with the "Rock'n'Roll" circle. Then I put another circle on the other side of the "Rock" circle, intersecting with both the "Prog" one and the "Rock'n'Roll" one, and labelled it "Classical." But then realized that it needed to also intersect with the "Jazz" circle. The same goes for the "Folk/Traditional" and "World" music circles that I proceeded to try to add:  How was I to get them all to appropriately intersect with one another?

 



Prog?



     Then I realized something more crucial:  The tiny little nucleus of the "Prog" circle that is alone, an entity unto itself, that is, supposedly, untouched by the influences of other musics, DOES NOT EXIST!! It finally dawned on me how right TheGazzardian was:  Prog, as a singular, independent, isolated, self-creating, self-defining entity does not existThere is no Prog without any or all of the other music genres!


                                                                      Folk/Traditional

                                                         World (green)                                                         Classical (pink)

Jazz                                  Rock'n'Roll

                                

Prog!

(Prog can occur at the intersection of any two or more of the five musical genres cited.)


     Progressive Rock is an offspring, an amalgamation, a synthesis, a b*****d or a love child (depending on your point of view) of elements from other musical genres. Progressive Rock does not and cannot exist without at least two of the other musical genres, for it is the outcome of the marriage/synthesis of two or more musical forms!

     So, does this mean my blog is now obsolete? So long as music lovers are referring to a category of music that they call "prog" or "progressive rock" then I will continue writing. (And listening!) This does, however, further validate my argument against the "rock'n'roll" requirement(s) of prog. For example, should a song, album or artist create, record, and publish a folk song using classical instrumentation, I might hear it and consider it "progressive" even though it contains no Rock elements. Just as classical renderings of classic prog music have become popular (e.g., 1993's Symphonic Music of Yes, 1995's Us and Them: Symphonic Pink Floyd, a whole mess of KRONOS QUARTET and VITAMIN STRING QUARTET recordings and, most recently, THE MUSICAL BOX's keyboard player, David Myers covering Genesis music on acoustic piano on David Myers Plays Genesis), so original compositions that artists and critics might consider "classical" I might hear and call them "progressive" (e.g. STEVE REICH, PHILLIP GLASS, WIM WENDERS, CLINT MANSELL, HANS ZIMMER). Therefore, let go! Ye listeners with close-minded set definitions of "progressive" music! Or, better yet, let's call it something different. Get rid of the limiting word "rock." Progressive music. Cross-genre music! Multi-genre music! Boundary-less music! Eclectic composition! Mixxed music! Melting pot music! Melange music! Kitchen sink music! Gumbo! Compost! Vampire music! Assimilative music. Tertiary music. Adventurous music. Orphean music. Integrative music. Amalgamated music. Paradigm-shift music. Envelope pushing music. "Outside the box" music. Creative music integration/synthesis. Multi-chakra music. Mural music. Abstract music. Surreal music. Metamusic. Supra-music. Intellectual music. Mental music. Musical smörgåsborg. Musical buffet. Walkabout music. Starving artist music. Jungian music. Experimental music. Affective music. Afferent music. Ionic composition. Libertarian music. Democratic music. Socialized music. Technical music. Filibuster music. Ever-expanding Universe music. Nebulanic or supernova music. Titanic music. Designer music. Gourmet music. Hybridized music. Bio-engineered music. Anti-socialized music. Music of the Stubborn and Reverent. Genius music. Anarchistic music. Archistic music. Symbionic synthesis. Expansive music. Unglaciated music. Illustrious music. Visual music. Brackish music. Foreward music. Innovative music. Novel music. Airy music. Salubrious music. White collar music. Radical music. Rational music. Barometric music. Aquarian music. Expressionist music. Intellectual music. Pioneer music. Exploratory music. Quantum music. Organic music. Musique anthropologique. Esoteric music. Inspired music. Evolutionary music. Maximalism. Glorified instrument music. Musician's music. Instrumentalists' music.



"If it ain't progressive then it cain't be prog!" -- Samuel Clemens 


 

Drew Fisher,
Prog Is Alive and Well in the 21st Century,
Second Cloud on the Left Farm

La Farge, Wisconsin
Back to Top
Rando View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Bay Area
Status: Offline
Points: 472
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 21:34


-Smells Like Teen Prog-it-

LOL
- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -
Back to Top
FusionKing View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 28 2009
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 520
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FusionKing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2013 at 10:01
Ok...so prog is infact a figment of our imagination?
 
Anyway, I say Prog is a definative genre. I say that as I was brought up with all forms of Classic Rock.
See in my house I knew there were differences...
 
'Cheesy but nice enough' meant A.O.R.
'The one's that your father refers to as 'sickening' so I never get to play them' meant Glam Metal.
'The one's your mother tells me to turn down when I'm drunk, unless she's drunk and wants a dance' meant Heavy Metal.
'The one's I hear everyday at least once, no wait... twice, no wait...' meant as an exceptional case, Led Zeppelin, who were in fact quickly becoming a seperate genre all by themselves.
'The weird one's your mother likes...except Rush, Rush is fine...' meant Prog.
'The one's you like, that's bloody good, what is it they're called again?' meant Grunge.
'The rest' meant Hard Rock.
 
And finally, 'that one up there, the dusty one, what the hell is that anyway?', was infact the Vangelis Greatest Hits vinyl which I eventually discovered at the age of 14.
 
So, yes, there is a difference. Wink
"Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself" - Sartre
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator

Crossover Team

Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 6875
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 11:22
This reminds me of a discussion in which somebody quoted a prominent jazz musician saying "I don't know what jazz is" to argue that anything goes in jazz.  To which I said, so...how about I call Slayer jazz henceforth.   

Music categorisation is not a value judgment, but too many listeners seem to take it as such, not realising that they are really attached to an artist's work rather than the genre. 
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 6829
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2013 at 13:17
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

... 
BTW.....the Mona Lisa is a dude in drag.......just sayin'
 
Nahhh ... as AD2 would say ... Mona Lisa got a bird brain .... just sayin'


Edited by moshkito - June 02 2013 at 13:20
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 00:18
There's no such thing as lamea** prog . With all its weird a** costumes and weird a** music. It's all about Pop and Taylor Swift Tongue


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - April 12 2013 at 00:19
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four



"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



Back to Top
The Mystical View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 20 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 594
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Mystical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 03:21
There is no such this as prog. 
I am currently digging:

Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz!

Please drop me a message with album suggestions.
Back to Top
The Bearded Bard View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Post/Math Rock Team

Joined: January 24 2012
Location: Behind the Sun
Status: Offline
Points: 11903
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Bearded Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 18:05
There's no such thing as prog, it is only a dream, and it's the imagination of itself. Here's Tom with the weather.
Back to Top
Larree View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 10 2013
Location: Hollywood, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 869
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 15:39
If it is not 1-4-5, vi-ii-V-I, swing, boogie, country, hip hop, or a straight waltz... it could be prog!  LOL

Perhaps hip hop could become prog.  I would listen to some hardcore freestlye in 7/8.


Edited by Larree - March 25 2013 at 16:16
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 6829
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 15:29
Hi,
 
Love Dean's words on this!
 
Hi,
 
This is a view, again just as Dean states, that is very different from most. Mine has a very academic background, and a very intense music appreciation course, that stats with music 1,000 years ago, all the way to the most modern of folks -- something that I continued after those composers -- from the way I look at it. For example, my dad's collection ended in electronics by Stockhausen and Heinemann ... and I immediately blew him apart with Beaver and Krause, Terry Riley, Walter Carlos, Tomita and others ... and then one day, the great one saw a Kubrick film, and all of a sudden ... that's cool ... that's good ... and everyone went out and bought it, and all of a sudden electronic music of any kind is ok with everyone ... and rock music did not waste any time ... it was already doing it anyway!
 
Rock music, for me, was an extension of that story ... and the progression of that music ... if it weren't for the electricity, it probably would never have been heard, understood, or appreciated ... as it became! I really believe that electricity is the single biggest change in the history of music -- in the 20th century ... because it took away what was once not possible ... !!!
 
Like Dean states, everyone's view is different and changes through time ... and I have to agree whole heartedly and with passion, because that is true. However, I do not discuss, or review, any work, by its history ... as my only point of reference is my reaction to that moment, and I (obviously) could not react to that moment that takes place today, and not yesterday ... even with all the psychic abilities in place to help! My reaction was ... THEN ... not now, and this I have learned with my film reviews over 25 years and 500 of them! Along with a few errors now and then, of course!
But, I have done a couple of things that helped me define what I do ... I went back and watched a couple of films and re-read my reviews ... and you know what? ... I still feel the same now about what I said then, even if I use a few different words ... and now, you have an issue ... how do you define things?
 
I can't.
 
Is it progressive? For me, my experience with film "might" be progressive, but only as an element that I had no choice but use subtitles on foreign films in America, in order to learn English, because there was no grammar in this country in school to help me learn the language and spelling and pronounciation is different in at least 5 different parts of the US of A. The music itself, was more my own expression and feelings at the time. I still relate to "Close to the Edge" and "Tales" from an internal/spiritual point of view ... both of these works are not "empty" and neither are they vapid and ignorant ... they are very honest attempts to say something and tell you something, some of which many of us might not like from a spirit realm area ... because some of us would rather read another book! ... but is that reason to fault Jon Anderson and say he's screwed up? ... NO!
 
There is one film ... that is EXACTLY ... what you, I, all of us, here on this board ... are about ... plain and simple ... no ifs and butts about it. That film was special for me then, because I saw many of those folks, and I also fought and stood up for the many things they stood up for ... some of which were buried -- in time -- by drugs, sex, and rock'n'roll that became less and less important and vapid ... the meaning kinda lost its balance.
 
I always appreciated the ferocity, the strength, the excitement, and the DESIRE, above all, of Alvin Lee's "Going Home", in that film ... but it made a lot of the music in the rest of the film less important, but he was right ... at the end of the day, yeah, I would wanna go home and spend the rest of the time celebrating it in bed with my loved one ... I was not the only one to dream and ENJOY that dream, btw ... however, it made me think one thing ... so nothing else mattered? I went home, had sex and forgot about it? ... and all I could tell myself was ... nope ... I won't ... it means too much to me ... and I had my head bashed in ... and I was frisked and frisked for a whole week ... and insulted by the ROTC folks doing it ... during Kent State ... and just recently seeing that film with Neil Young helped validate a lot of my feelings ... I was NOT the only one!
 
To me, the music is not "progressive" since all music is a form of propression or another from the previous generation ... there are a thousand ways that jazz is a progression of a lot of classical music ... none of which folks are willing to put yap about. Likewise there is just as much great music, that is done electrically that can easily be considered "classical" ... as I state, by folks my age, that took their music to be more important and serious, than a simple hit song on the radio or the internet! ...
 
Lastly ... please be mindful to one set of words that Dean had here ... there was something happening in that music that made it important ... it had a 3rd dimention that most music did not have, and does not have, and this is the factor that creates "art scenes" in history of ANY of the arts ... and you can go read Robert Jensen's History of Art, or an equivalent book on Music and Literature ... with one problem ... most folks here do not have the appreciation for it all at all ... and can only discuss and ask questions that pertain to the hit, or the song's trivialities that will disappear faster than anything else.
 
As such, having an importance that supersedes many individuals, it deserves a "title" or"name" and I accept the "progressive" term, although as I mentioned before, almost all the arts have always been a progression of what was there before, but it makes it visible, within 10 wonderful years ... what most cultures never did in their lifetimes and I find it a treat to be a part of the folks that talk about it, and are not afraid to discuss it, and take it to the next level. It will get there, anyway, because you can't stop time, and its strength and beauty ... and none of us will ever get tired of Jimi, Janis, Jim, for example, who, for me, were the parents that helped define and bring about a lot of this music and work.
 
One major note here ... both film, literature and the visual arts were far ahead of music in this "progressive" stage, and a lot of that might have to do with the commercialization of popular music ... and the ability to pull all of these forces together is probably the most difficult thing to understand, even though there might be a lot of common themes, like the VietNam war and such. But it was not the only thing. Probably even bigger and more important is that this also coincides with the age that Television went into every room and people were seeing things, that were unbelievable ... and incredible ... and to me ... this is when "Guernica" hit home ... and I really believe that a lot of those arts, music included, became the symbol for that new way, the new world, the new life, the new everything ... with all the good, the bad and the ugly ... and you know you saw that in film!
 
Many of us also saw that in music.
 
Many other of us saw that in art.
 
It's a part of our lives, and we can tell you, not just Dean, that it was more important to many of us, then, as it is now, that we discuss it. So, in the end, are we progressive? ... yeah ... a lot more than most ever were! And we have the history and the insight to show for it!
 
And yes ... a major thanks to Dean for helping put words on so much of it ... so progressive, it's not funny!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
BrufordFreak View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team

Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 1404
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2013 at 21:29
I love music. Music that challenges the mind, music that challenges the heart, music that challenges the soul. Piazzolla, Brel, Vaughn Williams, Ekome, gamelan, Chopin, Bruford, CeeLo Green, Stevie Wonder, Eno, Coltrane, Steve Reich, Palestrina, Bacharach, The Beatles, Ryuichi Sakamoto and Anthony Phillips. They have all moved me, amazed me, and challenged me; they are all progressive to me. (Forget the rock. Let it be music.) 
Drew Fisher,
Prog Is Alive and Well in the 21st Century,
Second Cloud on the Left Farm

La Farge, Wisconsin
Back to Top
GY!BE View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 538
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GY!BE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2010 at 20:26
I like to see prog more like a way of thinking than musical criterions.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.