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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:20 |
ProgressiveAttic wrote:
gottagetintogetout wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
King By-Tor wrote:
I'm 22 and I say that music from the 70s is, in large, better than what we get today. So no. |
This. (and I'm 16) | That (and I'm 21). |
This (and I'm 14) |
I am 18 and I agree with the previous post! + you can't compare Genesis to the bunch of Genesis imitators that is the Neo-Prog genre....
On the other hand if Genesis (or Yes, Gentle Giant, etc.) didn't exist I would be a huge Marillion (or Starcastle, Yezda Urfa, etc.) fan...but just because there is nothing better |
I wouldn't call the entire Neo-Prog genre imitators of Genesis, Marillion, IQ and Pendragon which are the most popular ones, indeed have a big Genesis influence, but also from Floyd and from the 80's pop(synths) style, besides I don't they've ever really imitated the style of Genesis in the composition aspects, with very few exceptions(eg: Harvest of Souls).
I really don't think I would like Marillion, Pendragon, etc as much as I love Genesis, Floyd, etc, if the latter didn't existed. There's even a chance I wouldn't be interested in Prog if only for the existence of 80's prog forward, which is a surreal thing.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: @ wicker man
Status: Offline
Points: 32705
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:20 |
We're always going to compare to what we know (consciously, semi-consciously, or sub-consciously) but that doesn't mean we can't truly appreciate music of the present time.
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17499
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:50 |
You started out by asking about 70's music and is it a case of nostalgia if we listen now. Then you compared some bands which turns the question into "do you like Genesis or Marillion better..."
I'll stay away from the band comparisons....because there are 10 million posts like that in the PA.
My 2 centavos:
If you are one of us that actually experienced the music of the 70's when it first came out...then yes for me right now a lot of it is due to nostalgia that I continue to listen to that era of music.....Obviously because I think it is good music. I also think that was the height of "progressive" rock so the music is very memorable to me....It always will be...but I am not stuck in that era at all.
Nostalgic versus good music as a reason why you listen to that era may not be good comparison. I mean I will listen to Christmas music made in the 50's and 60's' because its nostalgic, for sure I don't listen to it because its good music.....but what nostalgic means to me is "good memories".
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:53 |
I listen to the 60 ,70's music because i like them a lot.
thanks
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PopLies
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 29 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 30
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:24 |
I believe this was already brought up... but I think that music from the '70s is considered better because there is a lot more bands around today, and unfortunately not all of them are good. So the "bad bands" get a lot of attention that the "good bands" don't.
I don't think it has much to do with nostalgia.
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Evan
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 13 2009
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 98
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:30 |
one factor too often overlooked is that vinyl records maxing out at a little over 40 minutes means built-in quality control.
Edited by Evan - April 22 2010 at 17:36
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Tsevir Leirbag
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009
Location: Montréal
Status: Offline
Points: 8321
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:33 |
ProgressiveAttic wrote:
gottagetintogetout wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
King By-Tor wrote:
I'm 22 and I say that music from the 70s is, in large, better than what we get today. So no. |
This. (and I'm 16) | That (and I'm 21). |
This (and I'm 14) |
I am 18 and I agree with the previous post! + you can't compare Genesis to the bunch of Genesis imitators that is the Neo-Prog genre....
On the other hand if Genesis (or Yes, Gentle Giant, etc.) didn't exist I would be a huge Marillion (or Starcastle, Yezda Urfa, etc.) fan...but just because there is nothing better |
NOT THIS!
By the way I'm fifteen. There were excellent bands, but there still are! Some are even better than those who were in the seventies.
As Greg said, just take (for exemple) avant-progressive or musique actuelle.
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Les mains, les pieds balancés Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard
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progpositivity
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 15 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 262
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:42 |
Prog fans can be a cognitively dissonant, enigmatic bunch of music enthusiasts. Philosophically we value creativity and *progress*... In practice, however, many of us love 70's style Moog and Hammond sounds, and traditional ...
If we are really honest, many of us prog fans *bristle* at some of the "new" sounds from technology because we associate them so strongly with "hip-hop" or "rap" or any other number of modern pop genres. But theoretically, there should be great potential in exploring these new sounds in a proggie setting. It is being done. But I suspect that many of us "tune out" these type songs before even giving them much chance to reveal their merit.
Now, I really enjoy bands like Black Bonzo and Presto Ballet - so I'm not *hating* on everything retro. Those bands love the classic music and they do an admirably *good* job of creating something new within that context. Even so, they are coloring "well within the lines" of what nostalgic Prog Fans expect.
Some of today's most Progressive music may get ignored by some of us Proggers if we aren't careful...
Edited by progpositivity - April 22 2010 at 17:58
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Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7! http://www.progpositivity.com
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 17995
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:51 |
ProgressiveAttic wrote:
gottagetintogetout wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
King By-Tor wrote:
I'm 22 and I say that music from the 70s is, in large, better than what we get today. So no. |
This. (and I'm 16) | That (and I'm 21). |
This (and I'm 14) |
I am 18 and I agree with the previous post! |
I'm 17 and do I even need to say it? except for metal, metal is getting better
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FusionKing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 28 2009
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 522
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 18:11 |
I'd say some of the most important and impressive bands are 70's bands. However I also have a great respect for 60's psychedelia, 80's glam, thrash and AOR and 90's grunge and jam bands. So I don't feel that the music of other decades was any less thoughtful, I just think that the 70's was a natural peak for rock as it had just come of age as a genre. Much of 90's metal and various rock after 2000 I will admit seems very desperate and stale overall, but what is popular now says nothing about the lesser known or less appreciated acts like Astra, Diagonal, Joe Bonemassa, Blood Ceremony...even some of the folkie acts like Newton Faulkner and Fleet Foxes present a ray of hope for the most modern releases. And I'm 18.
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"Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself" - Sartre
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progpositivity
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 15 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 262
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 18:13 |
I will echo the statements about the sheer *volume* of music competing for our time and attention these days. It can tend to skew our perception toward a certain "lameness of today" verses the "greatness of yesteryear". Basically, we are comparing a semi-random selection of today's creative output, and comparing it against the most highly esteemed output of an entire decade (in this case the 1970's). Very much a case of comparing apples with oranges.
Think about it. A multitude of 70's rock music fans culled through tons of bands and songs. Progressive minded rock music fans formed favorites and passed those favorites on to the following decades of music fans. Genesis, Tull, Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, Frank Zappa ... These bands connected with large art-rock, symphonic rock, jazz-rock, prog-rock audiences - and not without reason.
No doubt, some very good bands went unrecognized at the time. But not very many prog bands got "handed down" to the next generation without some real and legitimate point of *connection* with a significant group of people.
Fast forward to today. Randomly grab any 7 self-described "progressive rock" bands from MySpace pages today. Mathematically speaking, what are the *odds* that one of those will be of the caliber to stand next to Genesis, Tull, Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, or Frank Zappa? Very low. They may be good and certainly worth enjoying. But the odds that they will be in the same league with time honored music heroes of the 70's? Not very likely.
Think of it this way. What if we randomly grab a 1970's art-symph-electronic-or progrocker from the "pool"? The odds are very similar that this randomly selected 1970's prog band won't be of the caliber to stand up next to the GIANTS of Prog either.
Interestingly enough, we may still have an affinity with the randomly selected 70's band that we don't have with today's new music due to the instrumentation striking a certain nostalgic "chord" that is more harmonious with our musical appreciation than the scratching and tweedles of today's scene. Which brings us full circle back to your incisive question about nostalgia.
"You know. They just don't make 'em like they used to..."
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Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7! http://www.progpositivity.com
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator
Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams
Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Mtl, QC
Status: Offline
Points: 5138
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 18:48 |
A lot of good comments were posted here. My conclusion is that maybe the nostalgia thing is not a bad thing in itself because, it pushes us to listening to more new music trying to capture the essence of the best 70's music we loved, and even if we don't find the same excitement as we have when we were discovering our first big band (it's like our first love... ) we keep enjoying listening to the music and sharing our passion with the community.
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 19:35 |
progpositivity wrote:
tweedles
"You know. They just don't make 'em like they used to..." |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 20:08 |
The Quiet One wrote:
ProgressiveAttic wrote:
gottagetintogetout wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
King By-Tor wrote:
I'm 22 and I say that music from the 70s is, in large, better than what we get today. So no. |
This. (and I'm 16) | That (and I'm 21). |
This (and I'm 14) |
I am 18 and I agree with the previous post! + you can't compare Genesis to the bunch of Genesis imitators that is the Neo-Prog genre....
On the other hand if Genesis (or Yes, Gentle Giant, etc.) didn't exist I would be a huge Marillion (or Starcastle, Yezda Urfa, etc.) fan...but just because there is nothing better |
I wouldn't call the entire Neo-Prog genre imitators of Genesis, Marillion, IQ and Pendragon which are the most popular ones, indeed have a big Genesis influence, but also from Floyd and from the 80's pop(synths) style, besides I don't they've ever really imitated the style of Genesis in the composition aspects, with very few exceptions(eg: Harvest of Souls).
I really don't think I would like Marillion, Pendragon, etc as much as I love Genesis, Floyd, etc, if the latter didn't existed. There's even a chance I wouldn't be interested in Prog if only for the existence of 80's prog forward, which is a surreal thing.
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Your right on, I probably would be a primary fan of AOR and 80s pop, of which I enjoy the prog-related variety in real life, but in such a alternate universe I would probably have to make due with. Marillion is very good, IQ is okay... these two bands alone are not going replace the HUGE impact 70s Prog has had on my life. As for what others have said, I agree, 70s is better and the bands had a healthier attitude and more complex philosophy than modern bands - and I'm 22, so despite parental influence, I am less likely to seem biased than a 58 year old or whatever.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8092
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 21:33 |
70's music is of a higher quality than what came before or after it, period.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8092
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 21:38 |
when i said 70's music above, i was referring to more popular types, like rock or jazz as far as classical music recordings go, i feel the best ones were made before 1950, in what is known as the "historical period"
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Ethos
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 01 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 51
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 21:49 |
Let me put it this way:
Is Beethoven, Bach, Mozart a nostalgia thing?
What a ridiculous concept!
The key elements for me are:
1. How does it make me feel
2. Structure of the music
3. Originality
4. Complexity
It's the music, not the period, period!
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN IT WAS MADE!
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"As sure as Eggs is Eggs."
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 22:02 |
Old fart checking in. I grew up with the stuff.
Nostalgia is me listening to something like The Beach Boys "I Get Around" or "Barbara Ann". It takes me back to the old days, the innocence of being a kid listening to that music. Or seeing my friend's band play a cover of The Animals "We Gotta Get Out of This Place" one summer, down on the college campus. These are all decent songs, by the way. But it's probably nostalgia that I consider them to be so.
Nostalgia is not me listening to something like Fragile or Tarkus or Wish You Were Here. The really good albums from the '60s and '70s tend to not remind me of the old days. They still stand in their own right.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8092
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 22:05 |
Ethos wrote:
Let me put it this way:
Is Beethoven, Bach, Mozart a nostalgia thing?
What a ridiculous concept!
The key elements for me are:
1. How does it make me feel
2. Structure of the music
3. Originality
4. Complexity
It's the music, not the period, period!
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN IT WAS MADE!
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I totally agree with you-it is the music that counts-in finding what really turns me on in music, i spent a lot of time listening to a lot of different types, and, naturally, comparing them to each other-i have found my niche is in the 70's for rock or jazz and historical for classical basically because of my love and regard for the music-if that tends to co-relate to a certain time period, as it seems to have done with me, then it does. I have my favourite time periods, but again, it is soley based on my comparing and judging of different types of music-the resultant time periods sort of just happened and evolved that way-specific fave time periods are sometimes a natural evolution for people (like me)-but still, it is the music that counts
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 17995
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Posted: April 22 2010 at 22:05 |
the nostalgia argument is ruled out by how kickass Beardfish's Destined Solitaire is
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