Is 70's prog a nostalgia thing? |
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 905 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 05:47 | |||||
One thing I dispise is when people throw around the word "dated", it's a stupid word.
There's nothing wrong with music being distinctly of it's time. The Beatles made music that was distinctly of it's time, does that mean it has no appeal 40 years later? Of course not.
Music doesnt have an expiration date, I dunno where people get that idea from.
Music is music, I don't care what decade it's from. A lot of the hipsters these days really grate on my nerves, they write off just about everything from the 70s that isn't punk, glam or krautrock. On the other side, I hate it when the older folks discriminate against all modern music.
I remember reading this comment in response to the story of Flaming Lips covering Pink Floyd's DSOTM and it was some idiot who called Flaming Lips an "example of how bands today have no originality and to hide their lack of talent they have to cover the classics to make some quick cash".
UGGGGGGGGGH
What a dope. It's like he just heard about this story because he googles the name Pink Floyd at least once a day, found out that some band has the audacity to cover one of the classics and goes on a frothing mouth rampage about a band he most likely hasn't even heard.
I don't agree with the accessment that nothing new compares to the music of the 70s, though the 70s is my favorite decade easily.
I'd say bands like Radiohead, Flaming Lips and Porcupine Tree are worthy successors to King Crimson, Yes and Pink Floyd.
I'd also rate Bjork, My Morning Jacket, Wilco, Josh Homme, The White Stripes, The Mars Volta, Sigur Ros, New Pornographers, Madlib, Buckethead, Ritual, Battles, Mastodon, Gorillaz, Acid Mothers Temple, Boris, Arcade Fire, Melt Banana, Beardfish, Muse and Frost* among the best contemporary music acts.
I'm sure not everyone agrees with those but whatev. It's really fustrating to try and compare different generations of music. Edited by boo boo - April 24 2010 at 05:52 |
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, QC Status: Offline Points: 5145 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 07:20 | |||||
Maybe i am one of the few people who would disagree with this affirmation. I think that IQ have created their own sound despite the Genesis influence. I have heard a lot of "Genesis imitator" and IQ is one top of them if they can be class in the Genesis Imitator category. Phil Collins have doubts him self in a interview a couple of decades ago when someone ask him if he thought that Marillion was better than Genesis. But let's put aside the better or not comparaison and let's say that i think that it's enjoyable to listen to new bands that show a 70's influence in their music. That is a testimony to the greateness of those bands. |
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 08:04 | |||||
I think the problem is more with the melodic variety of prog...or R&B for that matter, most rock/pop genres, as far as I can tell (except, the alt rock side can be both melodically great and adventurous). Even considering that Magma looms large in the 70s, I would say I am not really dissatisfied at all with what new or 80s avant prog I have heard (precious little, admittedly), indeed I love it. The problem is when you stack up Genesis or Yes to bands like Flower Kings. Or Radiohead to Flower Kings, but that's again more my preference. I find the melodic side of modern prog really dull, made worse that the songs have to be padded and dragged till they reach a suitably epic length. Particularly, in the case of Genesis, they weren't just melodic and accessible (they seem to get frequently dubbed as such these days!), their structures were often very interesting and Hackett did a lot of interesting and ahead-of-its-time stuff on guitar...like the tapping on Hogweed. Interesting not because it's seven years before Eruption but because of the musical context he chose. Today's melodic prog bands are often very technically adept but this doesn't seem to translate into adventurous music.
So...no, I don't think liking 70s music is a nostalgia thing at all...I would go so far as to suggest that if you are actually persuaded that people rating Genesis or Yes highly is purely a nostalgia thing, then maybe you badly want to like new bands more than old bands. I don't distinguish between them at all in that respect, beyond the context of the period...I mean, there's more alternative rock around these days, in the 70s it used to be blues based, so on and so forth. I would readily place OK Computer in a list of my favourite rock (including prog) albums but can't think of a single modern melodic prog album that I like anywhere near that much. |
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American Khatru
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 28 2009 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 732 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 08:08 | |||||
^ Well, as happens in here, I was talking imo. I'll say this for IQ, those first few albums, imo, were tough for me to take seriously - but after that they stopped almost quoting Genesis songs (and Yes's Gates and I don't have space to say what else) and got to their own sound, a sound influenced by great music (whatever my opinion might be on the results). So, "IQ have created their own sound despite the Genesis influence", yes, though perhaps 'in spite of' isn't entirely accurate. There's some 'because of' too, if you will; it must have been difficult and educational to choose that great band for an ideal.
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Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, QC Status: Offline Points: 5145 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 08:26 | |||||
I didn't say that i like more the new bands than the old bands. I just like both erea and that, its just difficult for me to say that some of the 70's bands are better than some of the best bands of today. It's another time, another experience with my own history and the new music context where we are today, with more music, more styles. It is more difficult for new bands to stand out today compare to the 70's. The 70's experience was for me different, more exciting. I am not sure that the cause was totally link to the superior quality of all those 70's bands, but also to the social and cultural context of that time mixed with my discovery of a new kind of music; the progressive rock. |
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 10:07 | |||||
I don't think, other than people like WalterDigsTunes, anybody is saying ALL 70s bands are better than ALL modern bands. But it does sound unreasonable to me to say that the consensus that Genesis is a better band than Pendagron is on account of reasons other than the music itself. As somebody else put it, I wasn't born to witness either the 70s or the 80s and it's possible that if I hadn't discovered prog, I may have never taken interest in IQ. But the first time I heard Firth of the fifth, one of my first prog songs, I went, "Wow, this is amazing, this is quite like nothing I have heard before. " And so it went on and on...there was much fantastic musical exploration in the 70s which is missing in the newer melodic prog bands. It seems they emphasise more the melodic and accessible nature of say Genesis rather than their adventurousness. I simply cannot think of any 80s onwards melodic prog rock album that packs a punch the way Lamb Lies Down on Broadway does...not even any of Marillion's albums, and I love Marillion. |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13293 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 12:14 | |||||
I'm 45 now, and I am still trying to avoid falling into the easy trap of assuming that all was right in the "old days" and all is crap now. It was never true and I refuse to become a grumpy old man denigrating all that is new.
I started listening to Yes in 1977 - that's what turned me onto prog in the first place. Genesis soon followed, with Floyd, Crimson, VDGG, and the rest of those incredible bands of that era. I still listen to my 70's collection now. I bow to no one in my love of that era. But, equally, what this site, more than anything else, should teach us is that there is still a wealth of great talent and music out there. In fact, I would argue that modern prog bands have it a little harder these days, what with the predominence of processed music and reality TV & etc. I really do think that we live in exciting times, what with the opportunities that new technology brings us, and the fact that we still have some great new bands creating exciting and challenging music. So, yes the love for the 70's can easily be a nostalgic thing. We just need to avoid falling into the trap of believing that it was the be all and end all. |
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 14:26 | |||||
If we're talking prog, then this is correct, but if we're talking in general, I don't think so. Human creativity does not just suddenly drop down from time to time. |
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer Joined: January 09 2008 Location: Beasty Heart Status: Offline Points: 32181 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 14:34 | |||||
Personally, I believe that, if anything, music is just as good now as it ever was in the 70s---if not more. There are tons of innovative, imaginative, and enjoyable artists that have been releasing modern music, especially in the realms of electronic music.
I'm not sure how much nostalgia has in people's evaluations of music though. I would say, similarly to Dean on the previous page, that there is good and bad music pretty much throughout every decade. |
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jammun
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 22:31 | |||||
I am listening to Joe Walsh's Barnstorm album as I type this (yeah wrong forum). It certainly brings me back to a time long forgotten, those Rocky Mountain highs of my youth, living at literally 6800 ft...not a lot of oxygen up there. It's also very intelligent, and has many proggy or at least spacy moments (back then there was not much diffentientation...) in spite of the overall country-rock feel, and as well as a bitchin' version of Turn To Stone. I don't know, the synth washes drag me in. I hear the great songs, and make no mistake they are great songs..mama says be careful. They still speak to me, am I senile, or are they special? Is it nostalgia, or am I longing for another shot at my misspent youth? I don't know. I suppose it's nostalgia. I hear Birdcall Morning. Takes me back to that Rocky Mountain high, not gonna find it here in the city. Coming down.. to see you. Now that I think about it, that's nostagia. Times lost that will never be recovered.
At the time, I was more than likely listening to Lizard. No such remembrances of Lizard.
That would be the difference.
Edited by jammun - April 24 2010 at 22:44 |
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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jammun
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: April 24 2010 at 23:26 | |||||
To further the discussion, as I type this, I am now listening to The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, that one with the psychedelic cover, the one with Fire. Been listening to this one for hmm 40 years. I have no fond reminiscenses to relate w/r/t this album. It just is. Crane's organ. Why is it so cold out here? That's what he sez. There's your difference.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: April 25 2010 at 00:56 | |||||
You can be nostalgic for a time that you didn't exist. Maybe there's a better word for it than nostalgia, but some people are definitely caught up in the mythos of the '60s and '70s, and that has to color their perceptions about music. I'd basically agree with dean. I think the depth of change in the music industry is overrated as well. Ivan was talking about Charisma taking a chance, but there are more than enough independent labels these days to fill the void left by them, so it's not a fair comparison. Any difference is in how the majors are run, and I'll concede that there are no Ornette Colemans on Atlantic anymore. But there's k-os and Porcupine Tree, which may be close enough. And if it's not, there are so many other outlets for your music these days!
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10377 |
Posted: April 25 2010 at 04:40 | |||||
there is still a lot of excellent music out there; I agree to that. but not necessarily in prog. most of the newer albums just bore me, including Porcupine Tree. a band which is excellent but never gets mentioned by anyone are The Red Masque. now that is fresh prog, in my opinion |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, QC Status: Offline Points: 5145 |
Posted: April 25 2010 at 05:28 | |||||
Yes there is still good music these days, and for me i find enough bands to like in the prog world to keep me busy for a long time. But i have to listen to a variety of prog to fulfil my needs. I am just starting now to appreciate some avant-garde stuff like Univers Zero and Present. That brings something refreshing in my usual symphonic listening.
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: April 25 2010 at 05:51 | |||||
(If I only listened to music that was released before I was born my record collection would be nothing but Samuel Hoffman and Yma Sumac albums)
I'm now 53. Yesterday I placed a pre-order with Burning Shed for the new Anathema album, We're Here Because We're Here - on a relative scale I am as excited and full of the same boyish level of anticipation about getting that as I was with buying Animals or Relayer back in the day. Even if it doesn't live up to expectiations, and after a 7 year wait it's going to be a tough one, it's still going to be a fine album (because Steven Wilson says it is ). Already this year Orphaned Land's The Way Of The OrwarriOR has impressed me greatly.
I still get a buzz from new music. It just has to try a little harder to really impress me, but it does.
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What?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
Posted: April 25 2010 at 06:05 | |||||
I find the '70's to be the golden age of prog, but punk didn't kill prog, commercialitis didn't kill it. Plenty of good stuff happening now. You can count me in as a happy camper. Still there's plenty out there in prog for me to discover from that decade and an even larger universe of stuff happening these days I'm almost sympathetic to those who are stuck on the '70's prog. You have set yourself up for a limited universe to explore, so less to deal with, less money required, etc...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 12 2009 Location: Coolwood Status: Offline Points: 6396 |
Posted: April 25 2010 at 13:12 | |||||
As one who survived the era, there will always be some sense of nostalgia for me when I hear one of my old favorites. At the same time, I do not wish to relive those years and do not try to do so vicarously through music. Over the last few years, and largely to do with Prog Archives, I have been rediscovering the 70s by being guided to bands from the time I new little to nothing about. Some of my new old favorites include Gryphon, Khan, Grobschnitt, none of whom I knew about at the time, and Eloy, Jade Warrior, Osibisa, whom I did. Ultimately, though, the simple answer is, "No." I listen to music from that time because I enjoy it, and there is still plenty there for me to explore, along with newer works.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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XunknownX
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2008 Status: Offline Points: 158 |
Posted: April 25 2010 at 21:09 | |||||
The golden era of rock music will NEVER be repeated, you can't create the universe twice,
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bufoalvariusamen
Forum Newbie Joined: April 25 2010 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Posted: April 25 2010 at 22:11 | |||||
not for me. I'm 28 and was raised on what my dad listened to, so alot of the newer bands I listen to today are very similar to all of that classic stuff.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16278 |
Posted: April 26 2010 at 01:44 | |||||
I think it is.
It is really sad that we can speak volumes about a lot of Genesis, ELP and KC, but we would rather trash Dream Theater and many other bands, than appreciate some amazing body of work by many other bands.
That's not to say that what those bands did was bad at all. It simply was a time that allowed the music to expand and people to do more on their own and many scenes in many countries took advantage of it all.
I just re-listened to a Robin Williamson interview, and he spares no quarter in saying that "it was all a media creation, anyway ... " and here we are being just like the "media" and making sure that there are favorites or better representatives of the word "progressive" ... which doesn't exist.
Robin's comment was mostly about the "psychedelic era", but in the end, it applies so well, and one quickly realizes how well educated some people are and how well they know themselves and how they want to experience and experiment with music. We, simply do not like that aspect of it, and I am not sure that we are willing to discuss something that sometimes includes "invisibles" in a conversation.
You would think that these guys are still trying to proove that ghosts do exist in a scientific manner that has nothing to do with the world they live in! Our science is not going to work in another universe. It might have some similar things, but generally it will not! And the same here. I am simply not sure that enough people here can see the larger picture, enough to understand that this is not a personal attack as much as it is a plea to open up your minds to listening to other things and learning from each culture and area and the arts around them.
A board like this is good to get things started, but sadly, I am not sure that we can get past that point. And I would like to see us take that step and start treating too much of this stuff as "hits" and "top ten", which the majority of posts really are!
Thanks for asking, I do believe that is a really good question and deserves serious attention, and a mirror with it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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