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Refugee - Credo - Lyrics

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meurglys0 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote meurglys0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Refugee - Credo - Lyrics
    Posted: April 30 2010 at 04:47
What's your interpretation of the lyrics of the great Refugee epic Credo? My interpretation is something like: "I still believe in thouse things deemed false and in-credible by the possitvist, rationalist modern thought." Or am I getting it totally wrong? Also, what do you make of the final part titled "I Belive - Part II"? The addressee is God, I suppose, but what's really the message?

I'd like to hear your valuable opinions... Thanks in advance to all thouse who take their time to contribute...

Here are the lyrics:   

http://lyrics.wikia.com/Refugee:Credo

Regards to all.


EDIT: As a seperate question about the details of the track, If you know what the lines below mean, please comment on them too, for I don't know what stories or myths these lines refer to:

"midnight madness"
"ships that pass in the night"
"constant pauses in a Roman holiday"
"stop for air as I climb the Spanish stairs"
"the king whose touch was gold"


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Post Options Post Options   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2010 at 09:37
"ships that pass in the night" is a common phrase for people who meet in life once but without any relationship occuring from that meeting.

"the Spanish stairs" are famous stairs in Rome; it is common part of a pilgrimage to climb them. they were built upon order of Pope Innocence XIII

"The king whose touch was gold" is King Midas. he kidnapped Silenos, a satyr, the teacher of the God Dionysos, and foolishly wanted as ransom that anything he touched turned into gold. he soon learned that eating and drinking are more important than gold; anything touched by his lips turned into gold. note that the James  Bond song "Goldfinger" has the line "Goldfinger, he's the man, the man with the Midas touch - a spider's touch"

I don't think "Midnight Madness" has any special meaning; it may refer to a movie of the same title starring Michael J. Fox though.

"Roman Holiday" is a novel by Upton Sinclair. it was made into a movie too, starring Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn. no idea about the constant pauses though.


Edited by BaldJean - April 30 2010 at 09:59

A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote meurglys0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2010 at 11:26
Originally posted by BaldJean

"ships that pass in the night" is a common phrase for people who meet in life once but without any relationship occuring from that meeting.

"the Spanish stairs" are famous stairs in Rome; it is common part of a pilgrimage to climb them. they were built upon order of Pope Innocence XIII

"The king whose touch was gold" is King Midas. he kidnapped Silenos, a satyr, the teacher of the God Dionysos, and foolishly wanted as ransom that anything he touched turned into gold. he soon learned that eating and drinking are more important than gold; anything touched by his lips turned into gold. note that the James  Bond song "Goldfinger" has the line "Goldfinger, he's the man, the man with the Midas touch - a spider's touch"

I don't think "Midnight Madness" has any special meaning; it may refer to a movie of the same title starring Michael J. Fox though.

"Roman Holiday" is a novel by Upton Sinclair. it was made into a movie too, starring Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn. no idea about the constant pauses though.



Thanks so much for your very enlightening comment!  

I should have remembered the Midas King...

So do you think my interperatation of the song's meaning is true? (""I still believe in thouse things deemed false and in-credible by the possitvist, rationalist modern thought.")

Also, I'd like to know your opinion regariding the last part of the lyrics, too...

Regards.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2010 at 17:14
The lyrics author (Lee Jackson) had a very strict catholic upbringing in north east UK (Newcastle) and although he has never given a detailed response to the meaning of the song, has stated it sums up his ambivalence towards:
the laudable aspects of received moral boundaries c/f
the unhealthy aspects of behaviour constraints attempted via indoctrination

i.e. control through fear merely reveals the fears of the controller, not the controlled

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2010 at 17:52
Originally posted by BaldJean



I don't think "Midnight Madness" has any special meaning; it may refer to a movie of the same title starring Michael J. Fox though.




Yes...Jackson saw this film, then went back in time to write the song, Marty!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2010 at 16:54
Hi,
 
From a writer's point of view, which is not always the same, here is what I see. In general, from the top, this is a nice piece of music and the lyrics, while not totally clear as to a meaning or story, are more in line with thoughts passing through your mind. With a few allusions here and there.
 
The opening is pretty straight forward although I tend to think that there is a little freedom of expression that might be making a light comment about the human condition in general ... that is that most of us will end up in the same place without much attention ... another way of saying that we're all the same.
 
I like "A song in praising style And then forget the words" ... which is exactly what the 20th century has become. So many good things and none of them means anything and what's more many of us don't even care. It can be a song, or a book.
 
"And I sing my credo to a lost cause" ... I'm inclined to believe that David Jackson wanted to say what a lot of us want to say without being rude. I can sing until I die, and it doesn't matter to anyone, or at least enough people. The next stanza is alluding to the previous one and has the king and gold image.
 
"I believe, and you believe, and we believe we`re free .. And the air don`t cost a thing To a bird with a broken wing ... " ... really nice line ... a bird can't fly and the air doesn't help him fly when he has a broken wing. Likewise it could be said that we have a broken something or other (let's say spirit) and while we believe we're free, sometimes we're not ... the wind won't carry us, or you have an injury.
 
"The wisest king of all ... As I sing my credo to a lost cause" ... this one is tough and may lead a lot of people in different ways. One could easily be making a historical reference to one person or king, but the fact remains that a thousand years later it's on a wall. You may believe in that king/person and his/her story and belief, but you are not there and it is not the same thing. In other words you are fighting for an ideal, not a reality.
 
The last stanza is pretty self explanatory ... from stars to movies to whatever, you play a while, a game or otherwise, and essentially you disregard the rules. We tend to change these rules as time goes by and always update what we say ... sort of yesterday I believed in a and tomorrow it's not quite a anymore!
 
Ok ... all in all, we have a poem/song about having an idea, standing up for it, and in the end ... what does it all mean? And this is the frustrating part about a lot of believs for many people ... today they mean something, and tomorrow? .. who gives a darn.
 
Above all, I have always thought that this was a rather pointed attack towards the hippie thing and how it was coming down in those days ... the backlash from it was nasty and down right bizarre and of course, you and I do not have to talk about some of the silliness and people so stoned out thinking they were hip and with it. Most were not! And the bird ... Jonathan Livingston Seagull ... was a nice book, only to get corrupted by cynicism and people that had nothing better to say that it was a book for stonies!
 
A lot of the "air" went out of the whole thing with one song (more or less) and it was that one about when you go to san francisco bring flowers in your hair, and all of a sudden the whole place was inundated with the largest bunch of crazies and what not that proceeded to corrupt what was there and the great music and feeling all around it. Similar things happened in other places. You had things like Altamont, that put a really bad taste on people's mouths about even more ... not only was it wrong, all of a sudden the music seems to be even worse and irresponsible. In Germany, Amon Duul 2's first album is their "break" from their commune, and the comment was ... it's all about sex and parties .. has nothing to do with anything else ... in other words ... all of a sudden you are onto something ... that means nothing at all!
 
Woodstook was dead and killed and assassinated by the media. The peace sign was now making money for corporations that started selling buttons with them or little doves ... and one man was going around saying ... let them smoke dope, I'll win all the elections! And the end result is ... those very people that wanted to affect change, pretty much quit -- they were not fighting in the first place ... they were only out for a good time and to get some sex? ... I actually take offense to that, because it all DID mean something to me, and I state that here, and you can see/read my comments on Woodstock and so many of the articles about Germany and the massive political/social upheavals of which so much of this music we love is a part of ... and in the end for a lot of people it was nothing but ... just gettin glaid and getting stoned!
 
That album, btw is fabulous ... and a massive listen, even today. In many ways I like it's honesty and strength a lot more than I did ELP. It was just a shame that it did not get more attention as it should have, so hearing and thinking that David Jackson was a bit bitter about it is not a surprise. It may also be a minor point, that need not be discussed, but this song could also be a bit about Keith Emerson ... being flighty and not totally with it, when he left The Nice. Patrick Moraz replaced him, and Patrick used synthesizers quite well.


Edited by moshkito - May 06 2010 at 17:46
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Post Options Post Options   Quote meurglys0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2010 at 16:04
Originally posted by ExittheLemming

The lyrics author (Lee Jackson) had a very strict catholic upbringing in north east UK (Newcastle) and although he has never given a detailed response to the meaning of the song, has stated it sums up his ambivalence towards:
the laudable aspects of received moral boundaries c/f
the unhealthy aspects of behaviour constraints attempted via indoctrination

i.e. control through fear merely reveals the fears of the controller, not the controlled


Originally posted by moshkito


 
From a writer's point of view


After your comments I re-reviewed the lyrics and I believe I grasp some parts better now, but there's still unclarity regarding other parts, which goes to show these lyrics leave the reader room for interpretation, instead of imposing upon him one absolute meaning. Still, I'd like to get a clearer image about those parts, by exchanging opinions with you, that is.

In my interpretation... The opening stanza is about the ephemerality of life; time flows, things mean a lot at the time, then don't mean nothing later. Existence and death cancel each other out, etc... (I don't understand "I believe / The life you live you leave / Can't conceive / An extra mortal sleeve" part, though.)

Second stanza is about romantic deceptions. The lyricist expresses regret for foolisly believing in love and in the possibility of meeting a soul mate etc. (hence the line "Ships that pass in the night"). The line "Like a child in Santa Claus" would mean that it's inevitable that his faith in the mentioned things is expected to diminish in time, but for now he hangs onto that faith.  "The king who wore no clothes / Wasn't the only one exposed" is one of the greatest lines in the text; in the tale referenced here there's a king who had been deceived into thinking he is wearing invisible clothes and when the child in the tale naively exposes the kings' nakedness it is also exposed that the whole crowd had been deceived along with the king. So the king was exposed (naked) anyway, and then his deception is revealed, and finally the deception of the crowd's. So there are really triple expositions here... Such a great line about such a great tale! (I hope I'm remembering this tale correctly.) And what comes next nicely complements my interpretation above: "a queue forms beside me" -meaning "there are many others who have been decieved into beliving in love etc. like me." However I have trouble determining the tone of the last line: "As I sing my credo to a lost cause. " Does he mean "I know that what I have faith in really is bogus, but still I keep believing it"?

The next stanza is about Catholic faith (or maybe all religious beliefs) is/are really incapable of providing the beliver the promised salvation (which corresponds to the golden touch King Midas believed would bring him wealth, but brought him a curse instead). And the last line comes to mean that King Midas was not alone in his deception. Maybe it's not religious faith in total that's the target of the poet's scepticism here, but only the authenticity of certain practices advised by the Church with the promise of salvation etc. The final stanza that implies the poet's belief in God may support this interperation.

The next stanza could be about freedom as a political issue. Man is nothing but a modern slave in the time of such wild capitalist practices sucking the life of communities and individuals worldwide: we all believe we're free, but in fact we're not. Or it could be about free will - which would suggest the poet's a believer of fate and with this line he brings the degree of man's role in his very own life into question. Any other ideas? I really don't get believing falsely "the air don't cost a thing to a bird with a broken wing" part. And the wisest king leaving his wisdom on the wall? The meaning of that line's a mystery for me. 

The final part, as I have said, suggests that the poet believes in God which he thinks is watching us from above as we play and disregard the rules (not follow his rules). So at the end there's a twist and it makes me think the ambiguities were deliberately placed in the song in order to make it open to interpretation.

I am looking forward to hear your further comments about the song in general and about the parts I have mentioned that I don't get.

Regards to all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2010 at 18:08
Hi,
 
... As I sing my credo to a lost cause. " Does he mean "I know that what I have faith in really is bogus, but still I keep believing it"?
 
I think of it differently. He is merely telling you that he is singing what he believes, and is actually questioning ... does it really matter to anyone else? Which makes it a lost cause for him! What is the point of having ideas, and beliefs, and no one knows, or cares about them? ... that is something of an issue for ALL writers, btw. You write from your vision, or your ideas! And the only point that defines the writing for that person is, how far and how well, they can stay with their vision/movie and not let ideas control it.
 
But if all you know is Harry Potter, why bother? ... I am singing a lost cause because HP lovers will never give me an ear! Or you can say the same thing about some of the vapid (vampire) stories these days. Even Ann Rice was better than that! Ohhh ... or the better one I heard ... who's Ann Rice?
 
I'm sure you got that one!
 
... Man is nothing but a modern slave in the time of such wild capitalist practices sucking the life of communities and individuals worldwide: we all believe we're free, but in fact we're not.
 
Agreed 100%. We are totally controlled by media interests and what's more ... we don't know the difference anymore, and educational systems are less and less interested in making sure you know and understand ... and that one is easy to know why ... it invalidates their power!
 
... Or it could be about free will - which would suggest the poet's a believer of fate and with this line he brings the degree of man's role in his very own life into question.
 
I don't think so. I do not sit here and write poems (over 400 of them) and wonder about my fate, and I don't think that CREDO does either. But it might bring one's desire and world into perspective a little better ... so what am I singing here ... just another song about brown sugar? ... ohhh, try a little michelle? ... after a while it's empty and not satisfying. Doesn't mean the music/song is not good, but the lyrics are not satisfying. In fact they are frustrating and hopeful, but not satisfying at all!
 
... Any other ideas? I really don't get believing falsely "the air don't cost a thing to a bird with a broken wing" part. And the wisest king leaving his wisdom on the wall? The meaning of that line's a mystery for me. 
 
The air/wing line is the easiest one for me. Why? The image. The wing doesn't fly without air! Broken or not! In other words, you have an idea or thought, and if you don't "air" it, wether you are broken over it or not, how is anyone going to know if it is right or wrong. Or, better yet, what is the point, if you don't care? Or could give a damn about the "air" if all you care about is going to get that waverunner tonight and go have a toke and poke with your girlfriend after it!
 
It's actually very important, and to me one of the most distinguishable features in this board. There is a lot of marvellous content, and just as much no so marvellous content. But then ... poop all the comments in the same thread, and ... sooner or later you are not reading it or I am not or someone else is not reading it! The value of the work, the content and even what is being said, gets lost ... it's both a broken wing (the idea) and the voice.
 
The final part, as I have said, suggests that the poet believes in God which he thinks is watching us from above as we play and disregard the rules (not follow his rules). So at the end there's a twist and it makes me think the ambiguities were deliberately placed in the song in order to make it open to interpretation.
 
I would not go that far.
 
Academia tends to "bring down words" into concepts and ideas that fit in compartments. Well, what if I do not do that or worry about that, and I take some dope and then write something, and sell it, and all of a sudden someone thinks its awesome and it sells a million. I'm seen as a visionary (or idiot!), but the idea does not fit that concept, and is fact, is nowhere near the whole thing, its way off the mark!
 
I tend to say, live by your words, not word, or a book (another important thing here!). It's not about one sentence. It's not about a book. It's about a whole life! YOUR life ... so when you are reducing a whole life to one sentence, I'm pretty sure the first thing you would say to yourself in front of the mirror is ... you're kidding me, right?
 
For all you know, Brian just had broken up with a woman he loved. And he's basically saying that nothing between them meant anything? ... It is, btw, a very common subject at the time in many lyrics in a lot of places at that time. The day of the drugs and free love, coming to a crashing halt and ... none of it meant anything at all ... you can see that very same hedonism here in this board. History, means absolutely nothig to most people at all ... !!! The other most disappointing one, is the sarcastic piece in Amon Duul 2's first album, Phallus Dei, when it was obvious they were through with the whole commune thing ... so you spent all these years in this place, together ... and the only thing it was about was sex! And a party so everyone could get into the orgy!  And this is why Amon Duul 2's song "Apocalyptic Bore" is so important to me ... and the answer is ... no, there is a lot in that time and place that is important, and should not be discarded ... and the MUSIC is one of the most important parts of it! And in my book is the biggest inspiration to what we know and consider "prog". Without it, all the music is just ... nothing. Plain words in hot air. Mere farts in the wind! And of course, because someone says it's this or that, you buy it and never question it!!! Now, you tell me who has the broken wing?
 
I have a credo, myself, but it won't matter to you any, if you are not going to give it a breath of air, for it to reach you, so you can decide if it is important to you or not! ... and this is where academia fails. It tells you what the credo is, what the concept is, what the design of the concept is, and then tells you that you can not be a part of it by being different! So, in the end, I tell folks, don't do that ... it does not invalidate your academic analysis, but I can tell you is not the "inspiration" that turns the artist free. It is the inspiration that makes professors (many times) feel themselves superior and more important than the artists themselves. So, as you can see, all of a sudden their credo is better/bigger than mine. IF anyone is measuring.
 
Lastly ... it's not the words, it's not the air, it's not anything but "YOU". The more centered and focused you are inside the less a lot of this stuff seems to come off as weird, strange and conceptual from the planet of Pluto! And this, a bit of the meditational idea if you will, is something that is very difficult to accept within the context of ideas, not to mention a total anti-thesis of the same!
 
Hope this helps


Edited by moshkito - July 09 2010 at 18:18
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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