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Conor Fynes 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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 Topic: Ratings based on progressiveness?
Posted: July 21 2010 at 18:48 |
As you may have noticed, there have been alot of reviews posted on this site slamming various, otherwise 'good' albums for not being progressive enough; some even admitting to giving an album one less star just because it's not necessarily prog.
Now, I understand that this is a Prog site, but it seems sort of unfair to write off otherwise good albums simply because it isn't 'prog.' While the label of prog generally means there is intelligence and complexity involved, alot of simpler music is just as (sometimes more) heartfelt and quality than the progressive material.
Thoughts and opinions?
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Any Colour You Like
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 15 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12294
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 18:50 |
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Good idea, virtually impossible to implement.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 03 2007
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Points: 16913
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 18:52 |
some reviewers do this, some do not. the site seems to give reviewers free reign on how they wish to rate, within reason, 
Edited by Finnforest - July 21 2010 at 18:52
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 18:54 |
I can see how it would make sense in some cases, Miles Davis for
example. I have also seen people say "this isn't exactly prog but I'm
giving it a five anyway because it is a masterpiece". People are allowed to use their own rating system as long as they back up their reasoning, I guess, so I don't worry too much about it.
Edited by A Person - July 21 2010 at 18:55
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 19:10 |
I've been dealing with this since I first came to this site, hehe.
My own rating system is to rate 5 anything that I consider that deserves it, be it Prog or not. The review should explain if it's prog or not, not the rating.
But like some have said, it's impossible to create a solution for this, there must be like thousands of reviewers who have done that, and there's nothing actually wrong with it.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 19:47 |
 The Quiet One wrote:
My own rating system is to rate 5 anything that I consider that deserves it, be it Prog or not. The review should explain if it's prog or not, not the rating. |
That's basically how I am. Since this is a prog site, I do look for progressiveness, and if it is lacking, my ratings tends to reflect that.
But, as with most things, there are exceptions...
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 19:53 |
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
My own rating system is to rate 5 anything that I consider that deserves it, be it Prog or not. The review should explain if it's prog or not, not the rating. |
That's basically how I am. Since this is a prog site, I do look for progressiveness, and if it is lacking, my ratings tends to reflect that.
But, as with most things, there are exceptions...
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 Is it me, or what you said is quite the contrary to what I said?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 20:08 |
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
My own rating system is to rate 5 anything that I consider that deserves it, be it Prog or not. The review should explain if it's prog or not, not the rating. |
That's basically how I am. Since this is a prog site, I do look for progressiveness, and if it is lacking, my ratings tends to reflect that.
But, as with most things, there are exceptions...
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Is it me, or what you said is quite the contrary to what I said? |
Yeah, I'm not even gonna lie. That made no sense, did it?
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 20:39 |
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
My own rating system is to rate 5 anything that I consider that deserves it, be it Prog or not. The review should explain if it's prog or not, not the rating. |
That's basically how I am. Since this is a prog site, I do look for progressiveness, and if it is lacking, my ratings tends to reflect that.
But, as with most things, there are exceptions...
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Is it me, or what you said is quite the contrary to what I said? |
Yeah, I'm not even gonna lie. That made no sense, did it?
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Haha, too much beer, eh? 
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32491
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 20:44 |
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
My own rating system is to rate 5 anything that I consider that deserves it, be it Prog or not. The review should explain if it's prog or not, not the rating. |
That's basically how I am. Since this is a prog site, I do look for progressiveness, and if it is lacking, my ratings tends to reflect that.
But, as with most things, there are exceptions...
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Is it me, or what you said is quite the contrary to what I said? |
Yeah, I'm not even gonna lie. That made no sense, did it?
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Haha, too much beer, eh? |
Actually, believe it or not, no. I started quite late (for me) this evening and ate a big supper. I am trying to multitask though.  
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DisgruntledPorcupine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2010
Location: Thunder Bay CAN
Status: Offline
Points: 4395
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 22:24 |
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I do list non-progness as a con, but it usually doesn't influence my rating. I usually throw it in as a warning to those looking for true prog.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 23:34 |
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I am annoyed by the same thing on the other end when people dock a star for it being too "inaccessible", even if they like it. If you don't like it, that's fair, but I don't see how anybody could know what taste of the average PA browser really is, so I don't think you should modify your review based on that. But I also don't care about the taste of the average person, even the average PA browser, so maybe that is just me.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 17995
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Posted: July 21 2010 at 23:39 |
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What the hell does "progressive enough" mean?
That's the stupidest concept I've heard today
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CinemaZebra
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2010
Location: Ancient Rome
Status: Offline
Points: 6795
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Posted: July 22 2010 at 00:56 |
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See my reviews for The Bends and Pretty Hate Machine. I would link you to them, but I'm a lazy b*****d.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: July 22 2010 at 01:39 |
Captain Clutch wrote:
What the hell does "progressive enough" mean?
That's the stupidest concept I've heard today
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What does anything mean?
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67386
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Posted: July 22 2010 at 02:32 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Captain Clutch wrote:
What the hell does "progressive enough" mean?
That's the stupidest concept I've heard today
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What does anything mean? |
It varies from an act of meaning to another. I think most people who rate albums by their progressiveness do it because descriptions like "essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music" and "excellent addition to any prog rock music collection" seem to imply that you shouldn't give five or four stars to an album which isn't prog.
Edited by Vompatti - July 22 2010 at 02:36
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: July 22 2010 at 08:47 |
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For me, I follow the guidelines.
Let's use the 5 star rating as an example - "essential: a masterpiece of progressive music". Although The Beatles' Abbey Road, Metallica's And Justice For All, and Led Zeppelin's IV are not entirely "prog", they are all masterpieces of the genre the same way Genesis' Foxtrot and Yes' Close to the Edge are. If I feel an album is essential, I will give it 5 stars no matter what the genre is.
I don't usually base my ratings on "progressiveness", but more so how much appeal they would have to people on this site. An album that is 100% prog, yet derivative and poor in every way deserves a 1 star rating because I can't recommend it to anybody here. A pop album that is intelligent and enjoyable deserves a much higher rating because I can recommend it to people.
I find it terrible when people say "this is my all-time favorite album, but since it's not prog I'll only give 3 stars". That's just stupid IMO.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: July 22 2010 at 17:58 |
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I actually write all my reviews as if they aren't connected to this site, at all. I also basically steal my rating/review system from George Starostin.
I totally ignore progressiveness unless it adds to a song or makes it more memorable or enjoyable to me.
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: July 22 2010 at 21:02 |
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I personally try to have reviews that will appeal to everyone that might look into the band. For example, Pink Floyd has PLENTY of non-prog listeners who dont even know what Prog is. It's good music though. Unless something is insanely prog, I try not to focus on the 'progness' and rather what makes the album unique in the scope of music.
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tarkus1980
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 29 2010
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 233
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 10:02 |
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I've always treated this site not as "reviews of progressive albums," but "reviews of albums, progressive or not, by artists whom the powers that be have deemed sufficiently close to progressive to merit inclusion on this site." Because of this, I don't give any consideration to how progressive an album is when I rate it.
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Ratings based on progressiveness?
