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leonalvarado 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
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Points: 177
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 Posted: April 01 2011 at 13:51 |
I like the way you think. It is quite different from many of the people I read about on these forums. I do find the crowd to be polarising. Actually, I do feel that there is some kind of click within these forums that if you are not a part of, then you are dismissed altogether. I don't frequent this site but from time to time I check in to see what's new. I have always found some resistance to whatever I write. Yes, I agree that this particular thread invites polarising responses. I'm OK with that.
I don't see Rebecca Black's pocketing $50,000 as immaterial. Mainly because it has nothing to do with her. It has to do with people spending money on mediocre entertainment as a reflection where we are headed. Did I mentioned three "Jackasses" movies? 
I learned a whilst back about progressive rock buying audiences on my first album which happened to be a Genesis tribute album. I found out that people either loved it or hated it. Sometimes it didn't even had to do with the music. Just the fact that I "dared" to re-record the sacred anthems. I just wanted to make my own takes on some of the music I loved so much. Steve Hackett liked it, that was good enough for me. But it is very hard for many people to get past the fact that it wasn't Genesis doing Genesis. That also baffles me but what the hell, I moved on anyway.
When Phil Collins finally bowed out of Genesis, the remaining guys came out with a pretty decent album. "Calling All Stations" may not be in the same vein as "Selling England By The Pound" but musically speaking, it was better than the two preceding albums which had Collins in them. People dismissed it, specially in the States and the band dissolved. I for one, would had enjoyed at least one or two more albums with the last lineup but they couldn't make people get passed the fact that Phil Collins wasn't in Genesis anymore.
Yes is going through some of the same. Will see what happens when their new album comes out in July. Until then, there are many fans berating Chris Squire and Steve Howe for not having Jon Anderson in the band. I bet most of them would shut up if the current lineup would agree to play in their backyard just for beers. I bet they would quickly covert to being fans of the new lineup. What motivates progressive rock fans is actually more complex than what I can put in a few lines. I am still trying to figure it out enough to get some notice (for my music and not for my rants, I got the latter down). |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 14:35 |
^ re-recording classics is a toughie - even previous Genesis members (Hackett "Revisited" and D'Virgilio "Rewired") didn't receive unanimous praise from all Genesis fans for doing that so you're in good company.
Line-up changes are also a toughie, especially when a "classic" lineup created a "classic" album. You don't read too many people complaining that Peter Banks or Tony Kaye aren't touring with Yes at the moment - I find that "selectiveness" a little puzzling myself, but I guess every one has their favourite "ideal" line up. However, bands with revolving door membership policies like King Crimson or Deep Purple manage to ride over such criticisms - it helps when the later albums equal or surpass their "classic".
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
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Points: 22989
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 14:57 |
I don't think a fan of the The xx would buy a Rebbeca Black album 
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Dean
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:09 |
 harmonium.ro wrote:
I don't think a fan of the The xx would buy a Rebbeca Black album |
Either my writing skills have dropped another notch or you've misread what I writted.
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What?
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:13 |
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Who the hades is Rebecca Black?
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:18 |
It's a bit difficult to follow but I think I got it now, sorry. 
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leonalvarado
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:27 |
The Peter Banks/Tony Kaye example is a good one even though they are each pretty good musicians on their own.
Tony was the original keyboardist on great songs such as "Starship Trooper", "Yours is no disgrace" and "Perpetual Change". His style of playing is more one of setting the atmosphere rather than flashing virtuosity. I can't disagree with the fact that Wakeman ended being a better fit for the band but Tony did OK during his time with Yes. He is actually better than most people give him credit. I like some of the things he's done with Billy Sherwood who also happens to be very talented. I speak with him from time to time and he is always busy doing a new project. John Wetton's new album being the latest.
As for Peter Banks, I don't know much of what he does these days. I know more than once he tried to start a tour playing the music of Yes from the first album but financials haven't added up on his favour.
Regarding the music produced by various lineups in bands, I hope that the upcoming Yes album is a good one. Like many, I am a bit skeptical about it and cautiously optimistic but, I hope they hit it out of the park. really, is the best thing that could happen to the music we love so much.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:33 |
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^ little know factette - Tony Kaye played Yes's version of Simon & Garfunkel's America live - he'd left by the time they recorded the studio version for the Atlantic compilation "New Age of Atlantic", the arrangement was Kaye's not Wakeman's.
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What?
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:55 |
Negoba wrote:
Who the hades is Rebecca Black? |
I watched this on youtube...
So you make yourself an amateur song, make an amateur video, put it on youtube for your friends to see...is there anything wrong with that?
I must say there's a lot of people being very mean to a kid who was doing what about half the people on this board do...make music in their basement (or backyards) for fun.
Some sarcastic pimply nerds make fun of it and it goes viral.
I don't know, as a father of daughters, it makes me feel protective. Probably more to it than I've had time to look up yet.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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leonalvarado
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:10 |
Negoba,
There is nothing wrong with what the kid did. I also have not one but two daughters. It is not about her. It is about those who instead of just going to You Tube to check what all the fuzz is about, decided instead to pay for it to the tune of $50,000 dollars so far. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this? (Maybe I am) 
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:17 |
^ I'll give you a firm YES 
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
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Points: 5208
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:25 |
50,000 people out of the tens of millions of people who checked out the youtube thought "Yeah for a dollar I'll have that on my iPod" (perhaps to make fun of, perhaps to play at a party where I bet it will get people's attention).
It's an interesting thought experiment more for me to wonder what I'd do with the situation. If something with my daughter went viral for wierd reasons, I'd be inclined to stop feeding it (though of course once it's out there, it's no longer yours, and you have to let what happens happens or you'd eat yourself up.) That means it never would have made it to iTunes. (I have songs available on iTunes, BTW.) But in the case, I'd probably have tried to shut the thing down to the extent I could.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:27 |
leonalvarado wrote:
They are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the UK Music Hall of Fame, and won the first annual Freddie Mercury Lifetime Achievement in Live Music Award. They also are the recipients of a LIfetime Achievement Award from the British Phonographic Industry and a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Grammy Foundation. They are ranked #3 on About.com's top 50 classic rock bands. They also have seven albums on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of ALL Time. Ranked #2 on "Classic Rock's" 50 Best Live Acts of All Time. Ranked #9 on VH1's 100 Greatest Artist of all time.
So regarding to your obtuse view on The Who, they are all I have said and then some. You can ask Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, Brian May, The Jam, The Stooges, David Bowie, The Raspberries and even Cheap Trick about them. |
There are an enormous number of people who do not care at all what those people think. I am one of them. I was intending to refer to someone like Bach or Beethoven. I still reject the idea that music has intrinsic value, but you would have a little more weight with music that has survived the acclaim of hundreds of years, not 40.
| Are you for real? |
Unfortunately, yes.
leonalvarado wrote:
Negoba,
There is nothing wrong with what the kid did. I also have not one but two daughters. It is not about her. It is about those who instead of just going to You Tube to check what all the fuzz is about, decided instead to pay for it to the tune of $50,000 dollars so far. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this? (Maybe I am) |
I am 100% certain that everyone who bought the song had already heard it on Youtube. The people who bought it did not see it as mediocrity. They bought it to inflict on other people/ironically enjoy at any time, without internet access. It is fine if you don't find it funny enough to pay a whole dollar for it (that's as much as a can of soda!!), but you have no right to chastise people who do.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Earendil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1584
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:33 |
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I don't think you can generalize by saying that no one knows who these older bands are though. At my school, many people listen to The Who. And I have plenty of friends who listen to Pink Floyd and Rush. Sure, there are some groups of young people "with the attention span of a fly on speed", but it can't all be generalized. I certainly don't associate myself with the whole mainstream scene. In fact, I'd say that type of person is the minority considering all of the other social groups who have deeper interests in music, literature, film, art, etc. Interest in thought-provoking, creative music will never be lost.
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leonalvarado
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 19:52 |
I have a right to an opinion. You may not like it but it is my opinion. I'm sure there are many things you find stupid in people. Just because you don't always express them doesn't mean that you don't think them. At any rate, I doubt that anything I write here will change people's minds. It obviously hasn't worked with yours.
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leonalvarado
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:31 |
Sure you can generalise. I gather you are rather young yourself. That's cool. In your case and others like you, it doesn't apply. Generalisations are just what people use to come up with conclusions for a particular data. Generalisation is basically another word for averaging a sample. Sure you don't think that I actually meant for no one young to realise who some of the bands were. I understand the implications my argument takes. Apparently I wrongly assumed that most people on these forums would understand where I'm coming from. Instead, they are taking it as a personal attack of one form or another. I have already being accused to not having a sense of humour and I guess also for not "contributing" enough to get some sort of special title. Never mind my actual musical contributions or all of the artwork that I've done throughout the last twenty or so years which are, in most people's minds, real contributions to the genre.
Look it is simple. My rant is not about personal issues and therefore I have to generalise. Otherwise I would be also accused of character assassination. I'm just stating my opinion. Have you seen the opinions of people towards the new YES lineup? You would think they want Chris Squire's head on a stick. How about Phil Collins selling out Genesis for a quick buck? Or Pink Floyd sucking because Roger Waters wasn't there.
In the end I'm glad that many people in the school listen to The Who. That makes me happy because I like The Who. I did some work once for John Entwistle. Meeting him was actually quite humorous. He showed up with a lady who would basically repeat anything I would say to him. He then would muttered some gargled sounds to the woman who in turn would repeat what he said in a form of English that I was able to understand. This went on back and forth for the duration of the conversation. I swear if I had a gun pointed at my head I could not understand anything that he would say. At the end we all sort of laughed out loud (I certainly did and he at least smiled).
Please take the thread for what it is, just an opinion. Frank Zappa once said: "Why do you necessarily have to be wrong just because a few million people think you are?" He also said: "Most people wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass". My point? Just opinions, nothing to fret about and nothing to point out "who gives me the right to, balh blah, blah" as someone else on the thread already has.
Be cool! |
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leonalvarado
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:38 |
Last comment was directed at Eärendil. The one before that was directed to the Henry Plainview. The fact that my posts did not come attached with the appropriate quotes just shows how little I know on how to use this thing. I know, it makes me some sort of dinosaur but I don't really do these forums often. Today was an exceptionally slow day that gave me more time in my hands that I usually get.
Whew! I wonder how many times a day do some of the people with thousands of post do it? When do they find the time?
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The T
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:43 |
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Look Leonelalvarado, thanks to you I bought the damn song for 99 cents to make fun to my girlfriend. I'll probably never hear it again after the time when I surprised her with it and got a huge laugh from it. It gave me 5 good minutes. That's enough. Now put your songs in youtube or iTunes and I'll gladly check if I can get enjoyment out of it, either by ridicule like with Friday or by actual musical/intellectual enjoyment like I do with tons and tons of music which not always are prog.
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leonalvarado
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:46 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
There are an enormous number of people who do not care at all what those people think. I am one of them. I was intending to refer to someone like Bach or Beethoven. I still reject the idea that music has intrinsic value, but you would have a little more weight with music that has survived the acclaim of hundreds of years, not 40.
[quote] Well, I'm not planning to live another hundred years so I'll stick with my examples for the purpose of my argument.
[QUOTE=Henry Plainview] I am 100% certain that everyone who bought the song had already heard it on Youtube. The people who bought it did not see it as mediocrity. They bought it to inflict on other people/ironically enjoy at any time, without internet access. It is fine if you don't find it funny enough to pay a whole dollar for it (that's as much as a can of soda!!), but you have no right to chastise people who do. |
I'm sorry if you spent your 99¢ in the song. Don't take it so personally. I only wish my daughter would have come up with such video. It would have saved my over $40,000 in college tuition.
By the way, lighten up. I can't believe people here are telling me that I'm the one with no sense of humour. Go watch the guy at the end of 60 minutes. He rants a lot.
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leonalvarado
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:56 |
The T wrote:
Look Leonelalvarado, thanks to you I bought the damn song for 99 cents to make fun to my girlfriend. I'll probably never hear it again after the time when I surprised her with it and got a huge laugh from it. It gave me 5 good minutes. That's enough. Now put your songs in youtube or iTunes and I'll gladly check if I can get enjoyment out of it, either by ridicule like with Friday or by actual musical/intellectual enjoyment like I do with tons and tons of music which not always are prog. |
Cool! You can find my songs in iTunes. Just search for Leon Alvarado in the iTune store and it should all come up. You are funny though. I like that.
You can listen to full versions of some of the songs here:
http://www.reverbnation.com/leonalvarado
Have fun either way (by ridicule or by actual musical/enjoyment).
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