Please seperate Post Rock and Math Rock

The only way to really know a genre is listen to a lot of bands in that genre.

Has anybody in this discussion listened to a lot of different math rock and post rock bands?

Epignosis wrote: Wikipedia wrote: Math rock is a rhythmically complex guitar-based style of experimental rock [...] It is characterized by complex, atypical rhythmic structures (including irregular stopping and starting), angular melodies, and dissonant chords.[2] Now are we sure this article isn't just describing Rush?  Honestly, I don't see enough uniqueness in math rock as a whole for it to be separate from heavy prog in the first place (whereas prog folk, psych/space, etc. have consistent, distinct styles that are more than just "heaviness").  Math rock uses odd time signatures- so what?  That's a common distinction of prog as a whole.  It uses dissonant chords- likewise.  Atypical rhythmic structures- likewise.  The only thing math rock is...is heavy prog. Am I wrong here?

IMO yes, but it goes down to our different perceptions of the same thing so we can't possibly settle this. To me math rock is one of the genres with the most pronounced identity.

When I listen to post rock, I usually wind up like this:    Post rock tends to consist of the exact same techniques (lots of tremolo picking), employed with an large degree of repetition, all called by longwinded, conversational titles ("I Took the Elevator to the Second Floor, but You Weren't Waiting There for Me, So I Flew Back to Mars.")

All the math rock I've ever heard sounds like heavy prog or closer to just sophisticated rock music, but as Alex says, that's just my perception.

Don't get me wrong Rob, if a reduction of categories would be implemented, I would also put math rock bands in either Heavy Prog or Avant-prog. It's just that my feeling is that at this certain stage of development of the main categories, Math Rock deserves a category (even if only a split one). 

Easy Money wrote: Alex, I appreciate your attempt to be a spokesperson for others, but neither of the responses you posted address the fact that two entirely different genres are grouped together as if they have any similarity. If the people who decide such things don't want to answer for themselves, then there is not much point in continuing my query.

I really don't know what are you trying to do here. Both David (of the Math Rock team) and myself (of the Post Rock team) have already made several posts in ourt quality of genre specialists. It's not "others" who need to speak, we have spoken already.


Edited by harmonium.ro - June 04 2011 at 12:11

Alitare wrote: I don't know anything about math rock, as I've avoided it. I associated it once with Dillinger Escape Plan, and I hate that band, so I've avoided math rock as best I could. Post rock, though, I've fell in love with (well, post rock + post metal). When I think of post rock, just rock, I think of Sigur Ros and with them I think of ethereal, dreamy soundscapes and long, slow build-and-release formulas. I think of either highly distorted background picking, or highly undistorted foreground picking. I think of dense and surrounding recording techniques, and I think of the band going 'oh-okay, we're gonna focus on the notes instead of the structures', and finally, when I think of post rock, I think of a bar of wood that also happens to be a stone boulder. When I think of math rock, all I can picture is Cynic without the death metal aspect, or "tech prog for Rush fans" or what have you.

Yeah, that's quite a wrong impression. DEP are not representative of math rock, they're mathcore (which is quite a different kettle of fish).

Also, there is plenty fast paced and interplay based post rock, but they're very little known here outside a small club of fans. Only the bands that you and Rob have described get "press" here.

Easy Money wrote: Dean wrote: Easy Money wrote: Easy Money wrote: Kind of silly for us to argue this as we aren't the ones who can change anything. I wonder what is the rational for having such totally different genres grouped together in the minds of those who make these decisions. Now this quote makes a good follow up to the above quote. Bob's already covered this on Page 1, however, some background:   The addition of Math Rock was proposed back in 2007 by Ruben (Chamberry), who was part of the Experimental/Post Rock team at the time. Assaf (Avestin) suggested adding it to the ZART empire, however through discussions between Ruben and Jody (The Progtologist), it was decided to incorporate "Math Rock" into the Post-Rock sub and at the same time drop the somewhat meaningless "Experimental" tag. In other words, the Admins acted on the advice of the Genre team members at that time. Thanks, but why are they still together? I know you are very familiar with post rock, but I don't know if you are familiar with much math rock, all the same it wouldn't surprise me if you were.

Easy Money wrote: It would be interesting to see what our post rock and math rock specialists recommend at this time. Umnfortunately Golden Spiral hasn't been around in a couple months, same for Chris H, and make that a year for Dim. Angelmk is the only member of either team who is around. I wonder if he has been asked his opinion on having these two desperate styles merged together.

What? That's about 0% percent accurate.

harmonium.ro wrote: Easy Money wrote: It would be interesting to see what our post rock and math rock specialists recommend at this time. Umnfortunately Golden Spiral hasn't been around in a couple months, same for Chris H, and make that a year for Dim. Angelmk is the only member of either team who is around. I wonder if he has been asked his opinion on having these two desperate styles merged together. What? That's about 0% percent accurate.

Sorry Alex, that was posted for Dean to check out.

Judging by the way you checked your facts I am now enlightened about the seriousness of your input. This is the last post I address you. The Post Rock team consists of me, Angel (who is NOT a member of the math rock team) and until recently of Slava (which is now helping you with JMA). Unfortunately none of the past Post Rock team members visits anymore. But as Dean said, the development we are talking about was done by the Collabs themselves, the Admins only approved. That answers your question for Dean (which he already answered). The Math Rock specialist (who managed the subgenre from the very beginning) is David (Atavachron), and he also spoke his mind on this thread.

To recapitaluate, the Post Rock and Math Rock teams would be in favour of a split, but the support is too slim to go against the general consensus of "we don't need more categories". Your trolling doesn't really count as support.

OK, I'm done.