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Why The '80's Didn't Suck: Kate Bush
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 12826 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2011 at 16:56
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Hounds of Love is such a powerful work, yet individual albums appeal at different times.


That is exactly right. Her albums appeal for different reasons and yet it's possible to like a good many of her albums too.  In spite of Hounds of Love's commercial success, I'd have to say she's somewhat underrated.  She has amazing control working within essentially pop form, paints varied and highly evocative textures and writes unusual chord progressions that are still effective and expressive enough to have immediate appeal.  And rarer still is she seems to be able to pull a different ace to bank on in different albums, whereas composers typically identify their strengths early on and tap them to the hilt.  If the first two albums seem to draw more on the conventional focal points of melody and harmony, Hounds of Love relies more on texture and rhythm and I can't say she is less effective as a composer in either approach.
 
I expect Andrew Powell has a significant influence on her in the early days before she was able to stand on her own two feet so to speak. The Dreaming and Hounds Of Love seem more 'organic' to me as she was able to fully express her ideas without having to force anything into a specific sound and style. Much of Hounds of Love features the Fairlight which uses sampling techniques and is strong on texture and atmosphere. Perfect tool for someone like Kate and enabled her not to be so reliant on orchestration to paint a picture.
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:



 
Soooorry, but....
 
from your list, not one of these albums would find its place in my top 200 of the 70's if they had been released in 78 or 79 (prog or not)...
 
Maybe Script and Brother, and Love Over Gold woud scratch the 200 level... UZed certainly gets in though.
 
And although you're right that the 90's aren't all that great, I can list quite a bit of albums (certainly more than the 80's) that would find space in my 300.
 
 
 
 
 



You asked about odd good albums and I gave you a bucketful, can easily add several more.  Where you rank them in your preference is not my concern, but none of these are drek, whichever way you argue it and for that matter, all of these albums are far more invigorating than that boring Supertramp album which has nothing going for it except that "gosh, they didn't sell out in 1985".  I have a couple or more of albums from the 90s like OKC and Grace that I'd put in my top 20 albums but there's really too much confused and tired rock music going nowhere in particular as against that.


Edited by rogerthat - June 16 2011 at 20:11
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


I expect Andrew Powell has a significant influence on her in the early days before she was able to stand on her own two feet so to speak. The Dreaming and Hounds Of Love seem more 'organic' to me as she was able to fully express her ideas without having to force anything into a specific sound and style. Much of Hounds of Love features the Fairlight which uses sampling techniques and is strong on texture and atmosphere. Perfect tool for someone like Kate and enabled her not to be so reliant on orchestration to paint a picture.


Don't know about Powell but certainly evokes the art rock of the time generally in the early albums.  The interesting thing there too is that her songs seem to develop momentum without a whole lot of instrumental 'activity'. Just as a comparison, say something like Love Lies Bleeding has so much orchestration and a more rocking tempo to propel it but Kate makes the chorus of say Symphony in Blue throb with mostly just accompaniments to the vocals. Shes uses the guitar very effectively and without it overpowering the piano and keyboards (except on out and out rockers like Violin).
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Points: 4455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2011 at 21:02
1 good artist, or even a liberal handful of bands would not save the 80's from sucking. Art as a whole suffered a backlash against thought.
There is no act more pretentious and self-indulgent than labeling another's art as pretentious and self-indulgent.
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Hounds of Love is the best album of the 80s.
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

1 good artist, or even a liberal handful of bands would not save the 80's from sucking. Art as a whole suffered a backlash against thought.
 
There's no denying that a lot of wrong turns were taken in the 80s but in my opinion:
 
a) Its impact is greatly exagerrated and there's no reason to thumb down the good music that was nevertheless made in that decade merely on account of negative trends in mainstream music of the time. I make no defence of the production values but would also state that I am quite happy to overlook those if the musical substance is interesting...and especially over music that is well produced but fundamentally stale, of which there's much these days.
 
b) The argument against the 80s also ignores the dull and boring music that was doubtless made in the 60s and the 70s too, like Eagles, Carpenters, Kiss and many others (I can't be bothered to jog my memory because I'd prefer to remember 60s for Beatles and Hendrix and 70s for KC or PF).  Or for that matter the 90s too, viz Celine Dion, Mariah Carey. Why then should the 80s be remembered only for bubblegum pop (or whatever pop it's supposed to be!) or hair/glam metal and not for Kate Bush or Rush?


Edited by rogerthat - June 17 2011 at 04:54
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 12826 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2011 at 01:24
The 80's didn't suck at all its just that prog took a back seat for a while before it was able to get back on its feet again.
Mike Oldfield,Simple Minds,Al Stewart,Tangerine Dream,Vangelis,Marillion,IQ,Iron Maiden,Rush,Peter Gabriel,Steve Hackett etc all released excellent albums. Plenty to enjoy imo.
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I'd also point out that just because prog itself (as it was understood in the 1970s) took a back seat in the 1980s, there was plenty of experimentation and new sounds out there, the post-punk scene in particular taking an avant-garde, experimental approach to things, and the indie scene in general coming up with superb music (even if it wasn't "prog"). The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Fields of the Nephilim, The Smiths, Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, The Chameleons - all of them were releasing great albums, none of them are 80s bubblegum pop with 80s pop production values.

Basically, I think people tend to assume that all modern music sucks... as soon as they stop keeping up with modern music and discovering new bands and obscure sounds that don't get mainstream airplay. Mainstream radio has sucked hard since the 1980s and continues to suck today, and probably sucked in the 60s and 70s too (though perhaps to a lesser extent, I don't know). The reason so many people think music improved in the 90s or 2000s was that that's when they got the internet and started discovering new bands again...
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 12826 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2011 at 14:32
Originally posted by Warthur Warthur wrote:

I'd also point out that just because prog itself (as it was understood in the 1970s) took a back seat in the 1980s, there was plenty of experimentation and new sounds out there, the post-punk scene in particular taking an avant-garde, experimental approach to things, and the indie scene in general coming up with superb music (even if it wasn't "prog"). The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Fields of the Nephilim, The Smiths, Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, The Chameleons - all of them were releasing great albums, none of them are 80s bubblegum pop with 80s pop production values.

Basically, I think people tend to assume that all modern music sucks... as soon as they stop keeping up with modern music and discovering new bands and obscure sounds that don't get mainstream airplay. Mainstream radio has sucked hard since the 1980s and continues to suck today, and probably sucked in the 60s and 70s too (though perhaps to a lesser extent, I don't know). The reason so many people think music improved in the 90s or 2000s was that that's when they got the internet and started discovering new bands again...
 
You are right about mainstream radio. I used to listen to Radio Caroline (until the boat sunk!) as they played a lot of prog but also they played decent eighties stuff on occasions as well. China Crisis was another decent eighties band as I remember ,produced by ex Steely Dan members I think.Wishfull Thinking was a classic song of that decade.
What annoyed many about the eighties was the rise of MTV and the over importance of music videos but then Live Aid helped redress the balance and show that bands who could actually do it 'live' were much better than those that couldn't.
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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On second thoughts about my vote!  Breathing might just be my favourite Kate Bush song and Never For Ever is overall another excellent album.
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memowakeman View Drop Down
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The Dreaming

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resurrection View Drop Down
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The Dreaming. An idiosyncratic and unusual talent, a bit of a wild card.
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