What Is a Masterpiece of Progressive ? |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: July 16 2011 at 11:10 | |||
Well said and agree with much of this. However, rock per se has become more of a technical sport with less emphasis on composition so sooner or later, what we call prog will go down that road too. |
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, QC Status: Offline Points: 5142 |
Posted: July 16 2011 at 11:16 | |||
That's the whole point of having those discussions. All the Poll stuff about TOP Albums, is a just a game to start a discussion about the music we love. There is some bands that are not in the Top 100 and should be there, and i know it's important to let others discover those bands, but it doesn't mean that we're taking the "sporty road". We are in a world of competition, numbers but deep inside of us we have the real feeling of what's is a masterpiece. It's not perfection, it's someting close that move you emotionally. Or as someone has just said, that "blows you away" |
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cannon
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 03 2010 Location: Coho Country Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
Posted: July 16 2011 at 13:50 | |||
I think some musicians think that thier ratings and critic are worth more weight than people who are not. Here's an anology I use to disqualify that thinking: Some of the best hockey coaches and analysts never played the game, played only minor hockey or never made the "big time".
I also find some musicians(they let us know numerous times that they are) reviews are way too long, pompous, ostentatious and repetitive. Besides this is the internet, are they really what they say are(?).
If you noticed I only said some. I don't think this case for most musicians.
I tend not to read reviews that are long, relatively speaking.
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wilmon91
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 15 2009 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 698 |
Posted: July 16 2011 at 16:04 | |||
Wikipedia helped me out in answering this. It is a "creation that has been given much critical praise, especially one that is considered the greatest work of a person's career or to a work of outstanding creativity, skill or workmanship."
It also tells how the word was originally used, which was interesting.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: July 16 2011 at 22:38 | |||
I find that portion highlighted in blue arbitrary and irrelevant, and especially so for rock music. If rock critics were at all serious and could be taken seriously, then maybe. But the next portion of the sentence makes perfect sense. |
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JS19
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 10 2010 Location: Lancaster, UK Status: Offline Points: 1321 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 03:39 | |||
I think it's an album that you don't just enjoy, but stirs something else inside you when you listen to it. That's why I think the 'masterpiece' tag is personally subjective.
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King Manuel
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 16 2010 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 952 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 05:40 | |||
For me it is an album that after listening to it for some odd 20 years regularly it still amazes me everytime I listen to it again. For me tho e albums are Dream Theater -When dream and day unite, Yes - Close to the edge and Van der Graaf Generator -Pawn Hearts.
Edited by King Manuel - July 17 2011 at 05:41 |
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Don't Bore Us, Get To The Chorus
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wilmon91
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 15 2009 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 698 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 05:56 | |||
Yeah, i agree - It doesn't work with pop/rock orientated music, or "new" music, it's more valid for classical,more than 50 years old music. But the use of the word "masterpiece" has probably been something that's generally agreed upon, not just one persons opinion.
"Magnum opus" is similar, ("largest, and perhaps the best, greatest, most popular, or most renowned achievement ") but there can be several masterpieces but only one "magnum opus".
I think "Masterpiece" is an old fashioned term and doesn't fit perfectly to rock orientated music.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 06:36 | |||
Yeah, this is what I am driving it, rock audiences are too fragmented for me to attach much importance to consensus in establishing what is a masterpiece. I do rely on such top 100 albums list only because there is more probability of such albums being really good than if I rely on one person's opinion but in rock/pop, using critical opinion or general consensus to decide what is a masterpiece can sometimes be misleading. And...
I agree completely.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12702 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 09:58 | |||
For instance, Robert Christgau, who has crowned himself "dean" of rock critics, routinely rates progessive rock albums (even in the genre's prime in the early 70s) with C and D ratings. If you look at the Top 500 Albums Of All Time by Rolling Stone Magazine (perhaps the most viewed list on the Internet, which I won't even link here), you won't find any prog in the top 100 except some Pink Floyd thrown in (The Wall at #87 and DSotM at #43), and Tull (certainly my favorite band) has one album at #337 (Aqualung). I didn't see any Genesis, King Crimson or Yes albums at all (although I only did a quick skim, as I was getting physically ill).
Also, another New York based firm, Time Magazine's ALL-TIME 100 Albums... http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1955625,00.html has no prog whatsoever, not even Floyd in the 70s! It's as if progressive rock never existed. Ever.
So, Prog Archives is on a thin raft in a great big ocean of bloated opinion where progressive rock does not even come up on the map. What we may consider "masterpieces" does not even register in the soulless collective of corporate critique. It is mystifying, certainly, that so much great music is routinely ignored, while rap albums receive accolades, but that is the state of music (or what is purported to be music - drum machines, mangled ebonic poetry and sequences are not music to me).
Edited by The Dark Elf - July 17 2011 at 10:01 |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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trackstoni
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 23 2008 Location: Lebanon Status: Offline Points: 934 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 11:13 | |||
much agree on this !
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Tracking Tracks of Rock
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 13 2010 Location: Dorset, England Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 13:27 | |||
It's 2011. Do people still need to have the objective/subjective argument? Everybody knows that music is only ever going to be personal opinion. Why do we need so many threads to come to this conclusion? |
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, QC Status: Offline Points: 5142 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 14:21 | |||
So you fall again in the obejecte/subjective argument... |
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jean-marie
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 27 2010 Location: FRANCE Status: Offline Points: 2585 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 14:52 | |||
it's right all those albums you talked about are in the top 100 but many albums would deserve to be in , 666 for instance should have to be in the top 100.....but it's not the case...... i think ther's kind of problem.....
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Slaughternalia
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 17 2011 Status: Offline Points: 901 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 15:18 | |||
True. If most of Progarchives thinks it's a masterpiece, then there you go. It's not like you're not allowed to disagree with it
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I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 22 2005 Location: Wuhan, China Status: Offline Points: 1455 |
Posted: July 17 2011 at 23:24 | |||
As Facebook would say: "Like this..."
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 13 2010 Location: Dorset, England Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Posted: July 18 2011 at 03:45 | |||
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Infinity
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 24 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 333 |
Posted: July 20 2011 at 08:31 | |||
Aside from the 'many' angles you can look at this at the very least it's a good opportunity to say get out there and listen to and review, rate, whatever albusm you consider deserve attention.....it's all about communication/information....otherwise take polls, charts, 'masterpiece' lists with some degree of a pinch of salt....that said, I think prog archives overview of let's just say most notable prog records is fairly accurate.....in terms of being a relevant and good guide.....most of us know there's tons more to delve into but you either don't issue a top 100 or lists of that ilk or you try to give a good guide....
there's so much information on the site I actually find it pretty admirabel the attention/review/discussion so many bands/records do receive...
It's kind of like reading a personal review...do you read it and remember it's objective or do you take it as underlining or overriding your own opinion...it's all just ongoing information...
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I can't remember what I said
I lost my head. __________________________ |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32748 |
Posted: July 20 2011 at 09:08 | |||
Music is personal opinion? I wouldn't define it that way. -------------------------------- One's taste is subjective, but one can objectively analyse qualities of music within a framework. Edited by Logan - July 20 2011 at 09:14 |
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 13 2010 Location: Dorset, England Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Posted: July 20 2011 at 10:18 | |||
You're wrong. Objective analysis would be "This song has a guitar in it". That's not an opinion. |
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