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Progressive blues - is such thing exist?

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awaken77 View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 08 2011 at 02:27
Is there such thing like "progressive blues" or "progressive blues-rock", with obvious blues roots,
but some prog-alike song structures ?

Jimmy Hendrix Experience, The Doors, Ten Years After, Santana  played some long tracks, but they are not "prog" in general sense  (although had some influence to early prog genre )

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EchidnasArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 02:39
The late 60s-early 70s San Francisco scene instantly comes to mind with bands like Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, and obviously Grateful Dead. Santana, Hendrix, Traffic, and Cream all fit the bill as well.

If you really listen, there are traces of blues in most prog rock, most commonly appearing through the ever-present use of the blues minor pentatonic and chromatic scales. That's where you'll hear the "blues" sound.


Edited by EchidnasArf - August 08 2011 at 02:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kotro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 03:46
From the ones I know, Ten Years After, Fleetwood Mac and Bakerloo were the ones who came closer to what one might call "prog-blues", but it depends on the albums. And then there's Floyd.

Edited by Kotro - August 08 2011 at 03:47
Bigger on the inside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 07:27
Bit of a no-brainer this : Led Zep
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 07:33
Floyd, definately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 07:35

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 08:11
To that add Jethro Tull - very much a blues band in their earliest incarnation.

In fact, there was a whole pile of such bands, some of which are on the site, others not. The Yardbirds, Led Zep, Fleetwood Mac, Jon Spencers band, John Mayall. The list is pretty long.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote topographicbroadways Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 08:19
I've lost track of what Progressive is actually supposed to mean. Most classic prog bands played Blues in some form or another. And most rock and psychedelic bands from the late 60's had mainly blues influences. Trying to give more old bands yet another label isn't an endeavour i'd be much interested in taking part in though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote awaken77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 08:32
what about modern bands?  blues seems to be forgotten (with exception of some jazz-fusion bands )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 08:48

Actually, prog blues would be embodied by Captain Beefheart.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GypsyJoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 08:50
Some of Roy Buchanan's work (Fly Night Bird) might qualify.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Windhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 09:09
Could this qualify...?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 09:33
Some Yes tracks are really bluesy. Like I've seen all good people: it's a blues shuffle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 10:02
Originally posted by awaken77 awaken77 wrote:

Is there such thing like "progressive blues" or "progressive blues-rock", with obvious blues roots,
but some prog-alike song structures ?

Jimmy Hendrix Experience, The Doors, Ten Years After, Santana  played some long tracks, but they are not "prog" in general sense  (although had some influence to early prog genre )

The improvisation of Alvin Lee on songs like "I Can't Keep From Crying Sometimes" are in a minor key and his usage of octives are commonly used in  in progressive rock and jazz.. For example Steve Howe. Some people confuse it with something else. Alvin Lee's choice of octives in a minor key are the same as Steve Howe's except Howe is playing his octives over an unusual time signature created by Bruford and Squire. In the real world of the musician....that is the only difference. The improvisation in Blues has been played in a fashion which tells us it is outside the melody. Outside the pentatonic scale. Chromatic scales or passages combined with proggish guitar riffing in a minor key like that of Andrew Latimer. The actual difference is usually the chord changes in Prog which of course differ from Blues as a whole.
 
"People Are Strange" by the Doors contains a melody which has often been repeated in early traditional European Folk music. For example....an old Irish song sung in the pub. Some of the bands you have mentioned ....their ideas derived from European influences centuries ago and perhaps that is what you are hearing? The old Blues masters sometimes crossed into jazz improv when they migrated to Chicago and added horns to the Blues. Or even the New Orleans sound as well. It's when Blues becomes a half breed of Jazz, but not so much Classical like in early Prog. More to the Cantenbury improv style if anything WHICH...derives from American jazz. There is a section of "1983 A Merman I Shall turn to Be' where Hendrix overdubbed about 4 guitars to do harmony. Mitch Mitchell is playing a marching beat and if you listen closely to that section you might notice that it sounds a bit European. With Hendrix there were sections of his songs that sounded prog related. Sometimes he fell into the Space rock or Krautrock moments with Chris Wood on flute and the spacy undertone of backward loops on guitar. Guru, Guru were seriously influenced by the Space Rock approach of the Hendrix trio on Kanguru. Mani was not trying to emulate Mitchell yet he was approaching the feel of the drums from that angle.

I suppose you might say there is progressive Blues rock? I only see that light through some of the more distant outside improvisation in Blues music where the piano is dominate and soloing outside the blues scales and in rapid form with a very fast swing beat that contains a 4 bar blues progression and chord substitution. Because with Santana and the Latin feel,....well there was already Jazz in Latin music for many years prior to Carlos hitting the music scene. Although with the Latin culture he was schooled a bit and it was natural for him to add the influence to create Latin Rock. I have heard older Latin music which sounded pretty close to the first Santana album in style and structure. Los Lobos did the same thing really. They understood blues and played it well, however I think Jazz was more keen to be a companion to Latin music due to the natural gymnastics of music which derives from Mexico and Spain. It already had a jazz mentality and it was full of passion. Quite like sword play. lol
 


Edited by TODDLER - August 08 2011 at 10:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 10:41
Regarding early Fleetwood Mac,.....there wasn't any influence of prog from Mr. Jeremy Spencer. He utterly hated "In the Court of the Crimson King"LOL He was one of those prog haters by nature. If anything sounded close to prog elements the credit would fall into the arms of Kirwan and Green. The closest Spencer ever came to prog in any sense of the word was when he did a cover of a NICE song which he played quietly on piano and gave it a flow of Folk influence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 10:48
I would nominate Groundhogs' Split (parts 1-4) - the title track from the split album is a Heavy-Psyche-Progressive-Blues epic


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote awaken77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 10:59
how 'bout this one ?




Edited by awaken77 - August 08 2011 at 11:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 11:04
Gentle giant is by roots very blusey even though they are all over the place, they got strong blues roots,



I would also call early Elton John progressive blues rock, cosue he experimented alot with blues and chrod progressions within the blues format






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awaken77 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote awaken77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 11:06
Originally posted by silverpot silverpot wrote:

Floyd, definately.


yes, that's a good example
don't mention short songs (lot of them are blues-influenced), but even long suites like Echoes and  Shine On Your Craze Diamond have bluesy feeling  (thanks to Mr Gilmour)




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2011 at 11:07
Most of the people in this thread don't seem to know what the blues are.

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Actually, prog blues would be embodied by Captain Beefheart.

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