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What was it like in the 60's and 70's?

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presdoug View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 28 2013 at 10:34
Originally posted by TODDLER

A great rock show for me was Blue Oyster Cult at the Shubert theatre, Philadelphia 74' . It was the Secret Treaties tour. Another was when P.F.M. opened for Rory Gallagher at the Spectrum, Philadelphia.
Climax Blues Band, Manfred Manns Earth Band, Ten Years After..Spectrum, Philadelphia
Genesis...Wind and Wuthering tour ..Spectrum, Philadelphia
Return to Forever...Tower Theatre, Philadelphia
Spooky Tooth, Frampton's Camel, The Mahavishnu Orchestra...Spectrum, Philadelphia
Gary Wright, Peter Frampton, Yes...JFK Stadium...Rows of seats were set on fire when YES performed "Ritual". The fire department arrived late and the fire was spreading rapidly. Insane!
 
Sea Level, Jefferson Starship..Spectrum 75"
U.K., Al Dimeola-Tower theatre
ELP-Welcome Back tour..Spectrum
Frank Zappa...Tower theatre 82"  He had the flu as he pointed at everyone singing...you're an a-hole, you're an a-hole
Steeleye Span....flipping excellent my friends!
That's a pretty great list of concerts, Johnny! And pretty cool when you saw Triumvirat on television with ABCs In Concert. What are some other prog bands you remember seeing on TV in the seventies?
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 09:33
Originally posted by presdoug

Originally posted by TODDLER

A great rock show for me was Blue Oyster Cult at the Shubert theatre, Philadelphia 74' . It was the Secret Treaties tour. Another was when P.F.M. opened for Rory Gallagher at the Spectrum, Philadelphia.
Climax Blues Band, Manfred Manns Earth Band, Ten Years After..Spectrum, Philadelphia
Genesis...Wind and Wuthering tour ..Spectrum, Philadelphia
Return to Forever...Tower Theatre, Philadelphia
Spooky Tooth, Frampton's Camel, The Mahavishnu Orchestra...Spectrum, Philadelphia
Gary Wright, Peter Frampton, Yes...JFK Stadium...Rows of seats were set on fire when YES performed "Ritual". The fire department arrived late and the fire was spreading rapidly. Insane!
 
Sea Level, Jefferson Starship..Spectrum 75"
U.K., Al Dimeola-Tower theatre
ELP-Welcome Back tour..Spectrum
Frank Zappa...Tower theatre 82"  He had the flu as he pointed at everyone singing...you're an a-hole, you're an a-hole
Steeleye Span....flipping excellent my friends!
That's a pretty great list of concerts, Johnny! And pretty cool when you saw Triumvirat on television with ABCs In Concert. What are some other prog bands you remember seeing on TV in the seventies?
I saw Steeleye Span on the Mike Douglas Show and King Crimson on The Midnight Special. Steeleye Span were outstanding , King Crimson produced "Larks Tongues In Aspic, Part II, and 'Easy Money". They were introduced by "Wolfman Jack" which came across a little strange with his hokey but oddball nature. The way he raised his stupied sounding voice and yelled..."Ladies and Gentlemen...''King Crimson!"  They received a decent audience response and this vibe lingered in the air where you might get the impression that a percentage of people had no clue what they were listening to or why ?..and so the audience response contained a "hushtone"...???? It was 74' and prog was slowly..very slowly sizzling out and falling below it's promotion scale. It was still on the surface of being promoted in 78'....which meant that a record label would STILL sign you....BUT!...the rules had been changed. ELP were producing Love Beach and Prog's backing..financially had less than half of it's original power. I remember Happy the Man and Dixie Dregs touring around playing theatres during this period in time. There didn't seem to be enough promotional backing to finance serious musicians and of course because of the draining which started in 74'
 
Triumvirat were on "In Concert" , Deep Purple and ELP on California Jam were hilarious and contained all of those "Old School" Rock tatics. The kind that Jack Black would have made a reference to on the movie "School Of Rock". Emerson had his flying piano bit and rubbing his ribbon controller in a place where the sun doesn't shine. Ritchie Blackmore had his goons set the stage on fire, plus he busted up the front of an "ABC" camera because...he was having a "hissy fit" over having to go on stage prior to sundown ..when the band had originally agreed to enter the stage AT sundown. At first the crew knocked on the door of Blackmore's dressing room and said "C'mon, lets go..you're on!". Blackmore refused to go on and then they told him that if he didn't get on stage,...they were going to bring in the local sheriff's to have him arrested.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 10:36

A really interesting time of my life was when I first heard Jimi Hendrix. Guitar buddies on the block were endlessly having difficulties playing his solos. The Hendrix unorthodox guitar methods didn't "catch on" to anyone very guickly No one to my knowledge had transcribed and produced sheet music that was accurate and also used symbols for his sometimes awkward thumb positions. Playing with the thumb is a method ..sometimes considered primitive and in some cases of less value to traditional music achievement according to a certain society class of people. AND...so ..being a young musician in the early 70's that was in the air and pressured on me . I think that experience is a far cry from what is evident in the world today.The style wasn't catching on to the kids in my age group. Hendrix would beautifully produce sounds of bombs, rockets, haunting sirens, police car sirens and no one else in the "Rock World" was doing that at the time and so we were all guitar students that were very much freaked out over this realization.

 
Hendrix was influenced by Buddy Guy and to point it directly, in the department of single note phrasing. But...Hendrix was taking that influence and doing something else with it. His vibrato was slow and hypnotic like Dave Gilmour or Andrew Latimer. His phrasing in a particular section of "1983 A Merman...from Electric Ladyland ...that features a clean tone guitar sound is based on phrasing around an Asian mode. I'm not sure what it is..but I've never heard anyone phrase like that. Before he died ..he was jamming with Progressive Rock musicians in Europe. He went to see King Crimson, he worked with Bo Hannson who wrote "Tax Free" for him. Steve Hillage is Hendrix influenced. Hendrix influenced something other than guitar playing. He was stuck in the "Rock Guitar Hero World" , didn't like it, and still managed to leave an overall influence on how to change "Rock Music" Originally he worked with famous "Soul" bands'..which that style of soulful funky guitar playing is Jazz oriented and sometimes complicated to master with feel. So..Hendrix had diversity in his background prior to becoming the Jimi Hendrix that everyone loved. He molded all of his teachings from the road, all the styles ..and formed a new style of Rock music and Rock guitar playing. It took a while for east coast American musicians to catch on..for some reason..I don't know? This was in the early 70's when kids on the east coast were trying to play like Hendrix..teenagers who wanted to hit the road. Once I got on the road, I saw some outstanding guitarists from N.Y. who understood the background to anything thrown in their face. Such as manuscript or depending on their ear to back a professional vocalist. They felt that Hendrix was a bit unorthodox. It took a schooled guitarist to figure out what Hendrix was doing then.
 
 
 There was no one else like him. This was the twilight zone , years before anyone imitated him..for example..Robin Trower..who had taken tips from Hendrix and of course Stephen Stills who took lessons from Hendrix years earlier..But..no one could truly emulate his playing. Some people thought Hendrix was mentally ill. My parents for example. He toyed with the guitar where people like Eric Clapton were more traditional. It was very strange living in the 60's and 70's , studying guitar, and being surrounded by a vast amount of people trying to figure out what Jimi Hendrix was doing on the guitar. I feel very old because of that memory. Welcome to the rest home. 


Edited by TODDLER - September 30 2013 at 10:49
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 12:47
It was really interesting to meet so many incredible progressive musicians ..on the road..in the 70's. It was pretty intimidating performing with older N.Y. based musicians. At that point I was studing Classical guitar ..on the road, off the road, had a handful of pieces mastered, where these particular musicians were 20 years ahead of me regarding their overall performance on an instrument professionally. I remember working with keyboardists who studied at Julliard, had a fully developed Classical body within them and buying mellotrons, synths, strings.. to imitate the sounds of Vangelis, Tony Banks, Keith Emerson, Rick Wakeman.etc  and they were working all the time...not weekends..but 6 nighters. playing Jethro Tull, ELP, Genesis whatever?..to a full complete packed house on the east coast during a weekday. Really? I can't believe that even existed when I ponder over what is relevant today. That sounds like  a fairytale doesn't it? Bands like SIRE...setting up their gear at the Penalty Box in Cherry Hill N.J. IN 1978...the place is incredibly huge and it's mobbed with people waiting to see SIRE..(a prog cover band)....they enter the stage and play "Close To The Edge" in it's entirety while kids are drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, and completely in heaven. We were opening for the band playing Jethro Tull , Genesis, and Led Zeppelin. My bassist at the time doubled on flute, had a Classically trained voice and no doubt the crowd liked us..however..when SIRE played ..we all sat in the dressing room with our pathetic heads down and that was when we awoke to the realization that we had to get better.
 
 
And as I say...it was extremely different back then regarding the entire thought process a musician uses to benefit their career. This was 1978..when the record companies had already put their plan into motion. Prog was slowly on it's way out. I became very confused about it because I DID..see that it wasn't being played as much on the radio..however in 78' the theatres and clubs I performed in were packed to see Prog. It hadn't sizzled out completely..where upon it had suffered a crash. That ultimate crash down of any particular business in America where it is no longer possible for the businessman to pick himself up again without changing direction.
 
 
Prog went to hell before my eyes and yes, I was on the road watching it happen as a way of life. It was painful to see many of the bands crumble from lack of promotion. But in 78' when Nektar played theatres and clubs..the house was always full. It was confusing because the business was booming on the theatre/club scale ..yet..parcially Disco and the Punk movement gained the interest of the public creating competition for the Prog world. I remember playing the "Glam Rock" original circuit bookings when I was a teen. The New York Dolls and a bunch of unknowns with up and coming record deals. We were about to be signed with Warner Brothers who had heard our original demo . We were to be flown to California to re-record the music in a professional studio provided by the Warner Brothers team. I had 2 managers. The 1 manager who landed the deal with Warners was fired by the useless manager who in return fired me for getting married. It was in a contract we signed..that none of us could be married. We were escorted by road team to a dressing room where our faces were fixed up like dolly's. We were escorted to the stage by bodyguards holding flashlights. It was then I decided to join a Progressive Rock cover band and also begin writing original music to filter through with the band as well.
 
 
By 1982 , on the east coast..there were only a handful of Prog cover bands...starting out with covers and slipping in originals and then fully converting to original...and since the money was great playing covers, it was a easy method of investing in your original career or gaining the interest of managers who invested. After witnessing less attention given to  Popular Prog bands ..Prog cover bands bailed out. Less and less people coming out..a dying art. The Prog scene went underground with less chances of bands like Univers Zero or Pulsar of ever visiting America.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Surrealist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 13:22
Toddler,

Insightful posts, thanks for posting.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 19:23
Originally posted by Surrealist

Toddler,

Insightful posts, thanks for posting.
Thanks very much
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 23:31
Originally posted by TODDLER

Prog went to hell before my eyes and yes, I was on the road watching it happen as a way of life. It was painful to see many of the bands crumble from lack of promotion. But in 78' when Nektar played theatres and clubs..the house was always full. It was confusing because the business was booming on the theatre/club scale ..yet..parcially Disco and the Punk movement gained the interest of the public creating competition for the Prog world. I remember playing the "Glam Rock" original circuit bookings when I was a teen. The New York Dolls and a bunch of unknowns with up and coming record deals. We were about to be signed with Warner Brothers who had heard our original demo . We were to be flown to California to re-record the music in a professional studio provided by the Warner Brothers team. I had 2 managers. The 1 manager who landed the deal with Warners was fired by the useless manager who in return fired me for getting married. It was in a contract we signed..that none of us could be married. We were escorted by road team to a dressing room where our faces were fixed up like dolly's. We were escorted to the stage by bodyguards holding flashlights. It was then I decided to join a Progressive Rock cover band and also begin writing original music to filter through with the band as well.

Cool post TODDLER...I was quite a few steps down the professional ladder from you at the time playing in a San Jose prog band in '78.  We did a few Crimso covers (opening our set with "Talking Drum" and encoring with "One More Red Nightmare") and many originals, had a great demo tape, and couldn't get hired to take out the trash.  We were all prog fanatics and it was heartbreaking to finally arrive on the scene writing and playing what we dearly loved while the music machine turned a blind eye.  After a year I think we all knew prog was going to hell too...we did have a lot of fun though!

It makes me feel good to know there are people posting on PA who were actually there Thumbs Up
I'm using the chicken to measure it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Surrealist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 00:42
Do you think one of the reasons for the decline was that most all of the great Prog bands stopped making great albums?
Love Beach, Giant for a Day, Tull's "A"... Genesis' efforts without Hackett.  While I would support Yes' Drama, it wasn't on par with their previous releases even without Jon.  Hackett's "Highly Strung" was pretty awful.  I could go on.  Camel... etc.. their 80's stuff was not "Snow Goose" caliber.

Crimson to me was the only band of the great Prog bands that really survived the 80's with some interesting releases, and have continued to be relevant today.

Suppose the great Prog bands were releasing their best stuff in the 80's.  Keeping it real.. pressing high quality vinyl and staying with all the great instruments that got them there in the first place.  I don't think the 80's synth patches were an upgrade from a Moog, Hammond, Arp etc.  or the pointy guitar craze made better sounding tones than Rickenbacker, Les Paul or Strats. 

My ears really died with the jazz fusion stuff.  Too self indulgent in the showboating dept.  I thought the classic Prog stuff was more about the songs, concepts and compositions, and technical playing was about supporting the bigger picture. 

I don't find any of the newer Prog on par with the great stuff of the 70's.  I once read a review in Rolling Stone that said Radiohead's OK Computer was the "Dark Side of the Moon" of the 90's.  I completely disagree.

My feeling is that computers aiding in the recording process, drum machines and Midi sampling didn't help Prog because suddenly perfect production values were accessible right across the board.  Most of the feel went out of the music.  The great Prog bands played complex stuff yes.. but they also had great feel too. 




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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 10:43
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King

Originally posted by TODDLER

Prog went to hell before my eyes and yes, I was on the road watching it happen as a way of life. It was painful to see many of the bands crumble from lack of promotion. But in 78' when Nektar played theatres and clubs..the house was always full. It was confusing because the business was booming on the theatre/club scale ..yet..parcially Disco and the Punk movement gained the interest of the public creating competition for the Prog world. I remember playing the "Glam Rock" original circuit bookings when I was a teen. The New York Dolls and a bunch of unknowns with up and coming record deals. We were about to be signed with Warner Brothers who had heard our original demo . We were to be flown to California to re-record the music in a professional studio provided by the Warner Brothers team. I had 2 managers. The 1 manager who landed the deal with Warners was fired by the useless manager who in return fired me for getting married. It was in a contract we signed..that none of us could be married. We were escorted by road team to a dressing room where our faces were fixed up like dolly's. We were escorted to the stage by bodyguards holding flashlights. It was then I decided to join a Progressive Rock cover band and also begin writing original music to filter through with the band as well.

Cool post TODDLER...I was quite a few steps down the professional ladder from you at the time playing in a San Jose prog band in '78.  We did a few Crimso covers (opening our set with "Talking Drum" and encoring with "One More Red Nightmare") and many originals, had a great demo tape, and couldn't get hired to take out the trash.  We were all prog fanatics and it was heartbreaking to finally arrive on the scene writing and playing what we dearly loved while the music machine turned a blind eye.  After a year I think we all knew prog was going to hell too...we did have a lot of fun though!

It makes me feel good to know there are people posting on PA who were actually there Thumbs Up
This is a great story! Thanks for posting your experiences.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 12:10
Originally posted by Surrealist

Do you think one of the reasons for the decline was that most all of the great Prog bands stopped making great albums?
Love Beach, Giant for a Day, Tull's "A"... Genesis' efforts without Hackett.  While I would support Yes' Drama, it wasn't on par with their previous releases even without Jon.  Hackett's "Highly Strung" was pretty awful.  I could go on.  Camel... etc.. their 80's stuff was not "Snow Goose" caliber.
I recall myself surfing through the titles you've mentioned above and picking out between 2 to 3 songs per album. During this period...I was traveling the theatre circuit and musicians, agents, managers were trying to tell us that Progressive Rock was on it's way out and that on a larger scale...record companies were signing Rock musicians who were more commercially viable. I remember being told..."Stop playing Genesis and Tull" and start playing things like "Just What I Needed" by The Cars. We were all on this bus discussing it and musicians in the band were furious because they felt as if their musical freedom was being pulled out from underneath them. Ironically..this was in the late 70's when we were still performing "Watcher Of The Skies" to a packed house. To us, and the other bands on the circuit, it made no sense whatsoever.....until...word assumption got around that the industry themselves were responsible for the act. We were perhaps a scale below the "big time" I don't know? and so staff management people on our scale followed the rules of the record companies and that was the end for everyone. Most traveling musicians at that time..mawked Love Beach, Giant For A Day, etc...They assumed that the record companies were forcing these bands to write more commercial. Then...I had to sell out by joining "Show Bands". I was raking in sometimes more than a thousand a week playing theatres and being managed by a corporation. Many Prog heroes were on the circuit with us. Renaissance, Steve Hackett, BUT...not many Prog cover bands. The Prog heroes were performing in these theatres which were a  scale just below the "Big Time" scale bookings
The Brandywine, The Fountain Casino, Club Bene were packed to the walls during horrific snow blizzards. This was in 1981 just after Steve Hackett released Cured and toured the U.S. There were strange Punk bands on the circuit too...like The A's. Back then it was called the "Has Been" circuit by almost everyone. Ironically...this was the best time of my life. I was 22, traveling by bus, pulling up to theatres where the crew was removing Steve Hackett's name and putting ours up. I was really excited. I was a huge Badfinger fan before a Prog fanatic and now people like Tom Evans were in the audience...and probably because his days of the British Rock scene in America were finished. SO...not just Prog was dying..but "Rock" music in general. The idea of writing a decent Rock song that may have contained nice solos and interesting hooks was no longer the "In thing" to do...although Pat Benetar and some others in the 80's managed to get a little fancy at times. Rossington/Collins Band, Johnny Winter, Rick Derringer, and Ian Hunter were playing packed venues with us..BUT..a ghost was telling all of us.."What you see is not lasting". Soon it DID grow progressively worse and crowds faded slowly for Rock bands. Maybe...until Stevie Ray Vaughn brought it back for a short time.
 

Crimson to me was the only band of the great Prog bands that really survived the 80's with some interesting releases, and have continued to be relevant today.

Suppose the great Prog bands were releasing their best stuff in the 80's.  Keeping it real.. pressing high quality vinyl and staying with all the great instruments that got them there in the first place.  I don't think the 80's synth patches were an upgrade from a Moog, Hammond, Arp etc.  or the pointy guitar craze made better sounding tones than Rickenbacker, Les Paul or Strats. 
 
Part of that 80's guitar craze was to play very fast , look cute and daring, and showboat visually. Not Eric Johnson or Joe Satriani...but placed more in vain of the Eddie Van Halen and Steve Vai's of the world. Randy Rhodes had that image too. They were all technically brilliant. Van Halen was a huge Alan Holdsworth fan...but there was something missing in the guitar playing. The guitar didn't sing like it used to when Peter Green, Mike Bloomfield, Johnny Winter, Jeff Beck and Ritchie Blackmore played it. That was obvious.  

My ears really died with the jazz fusion stuff.  Too self indulgent in the showboating dept.  I thought the classic Prog stuff was more about the songs, concepts and compositions, and technical playing was about supporting the bigger picture.
 
I was not a Al Dimeola fan. I like his 1st album, but felt too smothered with notes to enjoy the music. The Mahavishnu Orchestra played hundreds of notes at the speed of light...yet there was something unique about the composition. Jerry Goodman and Jan Hammer released Like Children which contained truly interesting pieces labeled as jazz fusion. Pieces like..."I Remember Me", "Topeka", "Stepping Stones" and "Night"...I believe influenced Prog bands around the world. It was a style of writing that influenced Happy The Man, Kit Watkins, and others I can't recall at this time. The piece "Hope" from Mahavishnu's Birds Of Fire album is more Prog than Fusion by far. 

I don't find any of the newer Prog on par with the great stuff of the 70's.  I once read a review in Rolling Stone that said Radiohead's OK Computer was the "Dark Side of the Moon" of the 90's.  I completely disagree.

My feeling is that computers aiding in the recording process, drum machines and Midi sampling didn't help Prog because suddenly perfect production values were accessible right across the board.  Most of the feel went out of the music.  The great Prog bands played complex stuff yes.. but they also had great feel too. 
I tend to agree based on my experience in recording studios out of N.Y. AND Philadelphia during the 70's and 80's. I don't believe it applies to all artists using computers, drum machines..etc...such as the Ron Geesin's of the world.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 13:04
In the late 70's and early 80's I was playing theatres and was on that particular scale/level where it was possible to make the so called quantium leap to the larger scale. That way of life was completely insane. You just couldn't get away from people in the audience. You were smothered completely. We DID have bodyguards who saved us from torment. I use the word torment because imagine after years of touring in that environment..what it would start to do to you? You could not get from the theatre to the bus without people pulling on you, hugging you, groupies grabbing you in the hidden places of your body and when you would resist...they would proceed to tackle you and rip your clothes off. That may sound like fun to some people, but trust me on this one...you don't wake up everyday feeling happy and it's difficult to deal with that attention.
 
When you're between 18 to 23 years of age, you are still a kid underneath and naive about life. With all of these surroundings..it became confusing to me and I no longer understood who I was. Or maybe..I already had these characteristics of growth and the environment increased it's realization for me? I tried to hide in the Holiday Inn's , put headphones on and listen to Univers Zero. Keep in mind that this environment is the size of a pea..compared to the magnitude of what The Beatles went through. It was more like 30 girls following you from state to state or 60 of the same people showing to your concerts. The point is...they were always ON you! They would sleep outside the Holiday Inn's...in their cars, or they would rent rooms down the hallway and it became increasingly annoying. If I took a taxi to the beach...1 or 2 girls would follow me. I could not live up to their expectations. I was on the beach in the daytime, sitting on the rocks practicing and with little sleep. I had no room for people's conversations and sexual desires. By the time I got off the road, taking a short break, I had issues to be sorted out. I was too young to understand what getting attention was about and I started thinking the whole world was out to get me!Shocked
 
 
Many of my stories are like those of the late Peter Banks. It's like someone is tossing a coin and your destination is planned. I never witnessed so much sexual promiscuity in my life. It was insane! Then there was the mofia , criminal pay offs between managers and agents....Satanic cults or I guess sects played a role in the business too. I was hired through a promoter to play Classical guitar for these high society devil worshippers in 81'. These performances took place in mansions. The gigs lasted for about 4 months until I developed the creeps , falling on my hands and knees to one of our corp members ..claiming that I was sick and needed mental help. Then I just continued performing in theatres for expensive entertainers. Being on the road made me paranoid and I took on a role I was not ready for. I was the quiet kid who played lead guitar and half of the time pretended that I was dumb ..instead of standing up for what I believed in and easily performing the task of turning people down.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 14:48
I don't have anything remotely interesting to add, because I am too young to know what it was like back then, but this is still one of my favourite threads, and I love reading it. Toddler, as always, your posts are fantastic! Could I hire you for my local kindergarten? They love my stories down there, and even if they by now are used to them being about imaginary mythical cats of the Amazon and magical spirit quests, my guess is that yours with all the adventures bad, good and sad - would go down like apple pie. Maybe not so much with the parents, but we can't please everybody ehLOL
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiamondDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 15:21
Music people weren't so rigid then, more open-minded, especially in the states. Then again, there was/is always a herd-like mentality where people jump on band wagons and follow like sheep. Much of progressive rock was originally a cut above average musically, but then it becomes a church, and people cling on to all the wrong ideas, associating idiosyncratic and eccentric with quality when the opposite is true.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 19:29
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

I don't have anything remotely interesting to add, because I am too young to know what it was like back then, but this is still one of my favourite threads, and I love reading it. Toddler, as always, your posts are fantastic! Could I hire you for my local kindergarten? They love my stories down there, and even if they by now are used to them being about imaginary mythical cats of the Amazon and magical spirit quests, my guess is that yours with all the adventures bad, good and sad - would go down like apple pie. Maybe not so much with the parents, but we can't please everybody ehLOL
That's pretty good!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 21:03
In the late 70's and early 80's during road travel...the drug scene was for me... complete deadlock. The conflict of interest on my behalf dealt with importance to my endurance on guitar. If I destroyed that...no one would have me. In this environment it wasn't necessarily  a case of musicians having mental breakdowns from drug dosages ,(although some did), it was actually the shock of them burning out. They would pump themselves up for a period of 6 months (maybe?), and the next time we crossed paths, their fire had burnt out. They could no longer play with conviction. The most terrible thing to witness was a fine musician that openly indulged in drugs at a show until they finally lost their ability to come back. I just hated to see that! On the higher scale bookings...it was even more vast than just performing a regular Rock club..where kids are indulging in drugs..where.everything around you appears to be crazy and dangerous..BUT..it isn't as dangerous as it could be on the celebrity circuit. Anyway...that was my observation from  experience. Things are done quite differently in those high society circles.
 
More money. stranger people, guards, and con artists who use thousand dollar words like scholars. You're sitting in the office with staff members and owners who spread out lines of whatever?...offer it to the band and the rest is history. One huge difference I noticed between the lower scale bookings and the higher was WHERE the drugs came from. There is always a definite possibility that drugs will come from the audience..regardless of where you play..but it seems to evolve from that situation more frequently when you're just playing in local bars and clubs. On the celebrity circuit drugs are offered to musicians from the corporation and that's when life gets scary. I was out-right handed TOO many expensive gifts to think otherwise. I would be given a car, a new guitar, clothes, money and half of these gifts came from the crazy but loving people in the audience..while the other half was handed down to me from corporate wealthy married couples who had invested thousands in the entertainers I worked for. Right out of a flippin' movie and didn't seem like real life at all. I didn't deserve any of those gifts and used to wonder what the payback was going to be. As it turned out....simply to continue doing a fine job. Sometimes I signed contracts, other times I didn't. It was difficult to understand WHO you might trust and WHO you wouldn't. A corporation has subordinate level individuals that lie to you and confuse. A wolf in sheep's clothing (so to speak), while the passage of time reveals the individuals you are suppose to be listening to..for real! and they are the ones looking out for you. So..you're working for God and Satan? I was too young to understand it ..so I followed the wisdom of my older bandmates who had decades of experience.
 
The Sex part. It's rather strange to be 22 years old and be propositioned by 40 year old beauty queens because you work for an entertainer who has fame. The bodyguards won't allow them in the dressing room ..so they go through you by verbally offering a sex act or handing you a couple of hundred dollar bills to get them in.. I'm serious,,that is really sick. I'm walking through the hallway to enter the dressing room and my boss is standing there laughing and drinking with Mohammed Ali or Doc Severson. I'm nothing more than a hired gun to perform while vampires want to suck me dry. I doubt  it is much different than that today. I also worked for entertainers who were up against million dollar lawsuits from huge and powerful estates. They care little about your insignificance as a guitarist and by the power of money..will track you down to find the entertainer you worked for years ago.
 
Shocked  That was a crazy experience for me in the 70's and early 80's. I'm glad it happened..but it was scary to be around those people. It's definitely not a normal everyday way of life..but who in their right mind would think a musician's life would be?
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by TODDLER - October 01 2013 at 21:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 21:37
In the early 70's..Jade Warrior toured America. I believe they played in North Jersey and made their way to the west coast doing gigs with Earthquake. I would have loved to see them, but that was probably 5 years before I went on the road. Whenever the music business environment caught up with me, I'd hide out in the Holiday Inns and listen to KITES through headphones. It took me to another place ....a place that was calm. Thank you..Tony Duhig (RIP) and Jon Field for writing this music. It was what saved me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 20:45

Improvisation mentality in the Jazz/Fusion 70's scene was not the best experience. I became bitter living in that particular environment with egocentric social behaviour within most guitarists I knew from the road. Specifically on the east coast of the U.S.  Although not being diverse in many styles, they were young accomplished guitarists with impeccable abilities to play Jazz/Fusion. It was always a ridiculous showdown instead of consciousness composition which to me was boring and even a display of unprofessionalism to a degree. Moronic things like playing your leads in a showboat method over top of the vocalist. Interspursed but ignorant and distasteful because all of us musicians knew the showboater and what he was all about.

 
They were in my face, sitting in with one of my bands to prove a point...they were a better guitarist than me and wanted to exhibit it in front of my loyal audience. Competition is evil that way. But that was the mentality and it was very vast in quanity because of the impact of 70's Jazz/Fusion. I felt that John McLaughlin played from his heart and the same applied to Pat Metheny, George Benson, and their ideology about music differed completely from these ego maniacs I traveled the road with. They were only interested in gymnastics for a showdown. So the observation was that they had taken it upon themselves to adapt this ego race to the phrasings of great Fusion guitarists. I knew how to play those styles early on , but disliked showboating. There were many diverse guitarists on the road who disliked it for it's lack of glory. Glory's designated spot was in the music. It was fine to improvise..but be more universal about it...where upon these professional sounding clowns had no idea how to open up to music. They were ignorant/rude about other styles of music , found other styles laughable, and thought that Al Dimeola was a huge contest..dismissing everything else.
 
During the double/triple headers, if a guitarist was decent and felt you were too much competition for them..they would have their manager pay off the sound tech to make you sound like rubbish. When you played 30 second notes, the tech placed enormous amounts of echo on your guitar to clutter up any existing clarity.. They would send feedback noise through the moniters. This is what happened to Alan Holdsworth at the Tower Theatre when U.K. opened for Al Dimeola. It's a cruel act. It's all about pay offs to protect how you look. I hated dealing with this mentality on the road because I lived in my own world and couldn't relate to a contest. If you had a reputation of being a decent guitarist, you might become a threat to others.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 22:54
The horror events which took place in my hometown during the 60's and 70's were nightmarish and frightning. Children in my age group came up missing and that was my first exposure to the crimes. I suspected Devil worshippers had been abducting children in the area. I was very conscientious about their motives.  there was talk of a ritual which had already been performed on a young man in our school. They were sighted several times repeating the ritual on other victims, the police were called , and they quickly fled. The ritual had to do with convincing 2 of your closest friends to kill you so you could later be resurrected from the dead and be put in charge of 40 legions of demons. It has been stated in the past by victims of S.R.A. that this was the 100 year ritual and that it first took place in the town of Vineland in the 1800's. It has been put to claim that a body was discovered and that a newspaper article can be traced back a hundred years ago. That's rather confusing because after the young man's body was discovered in 71', police investigation proved the ritual had been repeated several times. So....for whatever bizzare reason..this was like a plan put in motion by a sect. Programming/brainwashing corruption. Police found dead animals at the worship sites and ponds. It was so confusing to most residents of Vineland because the newspapers at first..covered a story involving 3 boys. But a few days after the murder, the newspapers were giving hints about the existence of a Satan worshippers sect. One boy who confessed to the murder stated that the victim belonged to a sect. Police found evidence proving that 50 devil worshippers  were present on the night of the murder. 
 
The ritual derives from the writings of medieval theologians like Colin De Plancey and is a Judeo-Christian concept. Anyone one who was abused by this sect has never recovered completely, having to be transported in and out of mental wards..or eventually taking their own life.  Some found peace in Christianity..yet cannot face their fears.
 
In 1957...Juan Rivera Aponte murdered a 13 year old boy ..Roger Carletto in Vineland N.J. He murdered Carletto for the purpose of using his powdered skull in a black magic ritual. This being an isolated incident that gave no further reason for investigation was common to occur in Vineland. The 3rd generation Watchtower Society lowered a girl into a snake pit to channel a demon through her in 1962 ..Vineland. This environment ...unfortunately I grew up in and left to be a full time working musician at age 18. It was a very mysterious place when I grew up there and with all the bizzare tragic events around me ..Shocked 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2013 at 11:16
I strongly resent  the on going existing idea created in this world which interweaves fads and reality together. The occult for example was laid out on a silver platter in 60's and 70's films and was present in 70's Rock and Progressive Rock music. Sceptics disbelieved in the existence of sadistic individuals dressed in black cloaks and their invalidation of such realities seemed to revolve around the concept of the media's monstrous success in raking in millions and making the occult seem rather silly, hokey, or pointless garbage. I agree that it was very farce. Especially when kids in the 70's read the lyrics to Uriah Heep's Demons and Wizards...deciding to take it upon themselves to enter the woods and raise the dead, the demons, or worship the devil. The first Black Sabbath album made it's way into households on the east coast of the U.S. and it was in fact..a fad of sorts. This was in 1970 when kids showed an interest in morbid things. Kids who had no real knowledge of demonology and performed acts which remain to be tragic and stupied. YET!..they believed in it and I know it was the films and the music influencing them to be that way.
 
Underneath all of this rubbish...were real Satan worshippers sects of the older generations. They perhaps listened to music too. For example...the music of Gustov Mahler or Bella Bartok. They found the teenagers way of life farce. Therefore ..they were cunning by using young people in a scheme of their own. How diabolical that was of the secret families in the 60's and 70's. The media was parcially responsible for the malfunction of the youth. A Satan worshippers sect of the old was reality. It had been a reality for generations. Familes who migrated to the U.S. years ago and the music and films digested by the youth in the 60's and 70's was part of a fad. The 2 cemented together was a travesty.
 
The peer pressure of hair styles, music, and attitude was a embarkation of fixation employed for attention that produced atrocities. It could begin as something farce in nature ..like casting a spell on someone you hated and later developing into disturbing acts..like biting into a big cookie baked by the local teenage witch that was full of razor blades. Four razor sharp steal tips latching into the roofs and bottoms of your mouth.  Urging you like a thousand tiny razor wounds, to scream your poor fool head off. It was called "The Atrocity Cookie". It was good , because it was dead. Razor ribbon napalm cluster cookies. Other individuals made attempts at working roots on you by placing a piece of hair in your shoe or mixing roots into your food. Substance and roots were combined in a brownie mix at local parties. The purpose of this act was to keep you under control by following their orders while under the influence. In the 70's..it was widely known as a spell. In any event, they were all candidates for psychiatric treatment. Happy Halloween. 


Edited by TODDLER - October 08 2013 at 11:30
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Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2013 at 16:01
^Not an easy time and place to be young, if you were susceptible and impressionable and able to be manipulated by that mess.
        And even the mainstream media just fed upon a lot of that stuff, only making things worse for the kids, and making those really "in charge" more powerful.
          I've always enjoyed groups like Black Sabbath and Black Widow for their interesting instrumental work, even though the lyrics were a bunch of nonsense at times.
             The occult is something that has a hold on people that think it works. But you can immerse yourself in study of it, and remain unscathed, as long as you are in control of your own mind. John Newland, host of the TV series "One Step Beyond", a show that dealt with documented cases of the occult and paranormal, claimed he never had an occultish occurence in his own personal life. There is a case of someone who took an interest, but still was "in control".


Edited by presdoug - October 08 2013 at 17:58
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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