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Hober Mallow View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 06 2011 at 22:16
Robert Fripp is someone you'd never expect to be in a rock band. he talks so eloquently I thought there would be some good quotes by him. Know any?

Edited by Hober Mallow - November 06 2011 at 22:16
“When Fortuna spins you downward, go out to a movie and get more out of life.” John Kennedy Toole
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2011 at 06:35
Knock yourself out:
Frippicisms - Aphorisms and Ideas from Robert Fripp

Also http://dgmlive.com/ has an aphorism generator at the bottom of the page.  You get a random quote every time you reload the page.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 07 2011 at 07:00
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2011 at 07:01
Process is Intelligence getting to know itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zravkapt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 17:48
"Progressive=death"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 18:37
Reviewer reviews himself or herself by presenting the extent of their understanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Earendil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 19:23
Originally posted by Hober Mallow

Robert Fripp is someone you'd never expect to be in a rock band. he talks so eloquently I thought there would be some good quotes by him. Know any?

Many rock musicians with some degree of artistic value in their music are extremely eloquent.  Not all rock musicians dropped out after 6th grade and get wasted every night....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 20:02
Originally posted by Eärendil

Originally posted by Hober Mallow

Robert Fripp is someone you'd never expect to be in a rock band. he talks so eloquently I thought there would be some good quotes by him. Know any?

Many rock musicians with some degree of artistic value in their music are extremely eloquent.  Not all rock musicians dropped out after 6th grade and get wasted every night....


I graduated....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KingCrInuYasha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 22:15
Tuning a Mellotron doesn't.


He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 22:25
My friend Wayne and I met Fripp during his "Drive to 1981," when he played a local music store with his Frippertronics rig.  That's how we came to bump into Bob at subsequent gigs in Chicago.

Backstage after a blazing concert with The League of Gentlemen, I asked Fripp if he planned any more tours of record stores....

He looked at me oddly, gave me a crooked smile and said "Not with this band!"   Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 16:03
Hi,
 
There are some really good ones and for all intents and purposes this really shows how cultured and philosophical Robert is, and how much he has tried to be with his own work, and even tried to bring a lot of this into the band itself, which, of course, did not always happen, and the reason why he says funny things about the bands.
 

Equilibrium is not static.
 
It can't be static, otherwise there is no equilibrium. Try telling that to PA and their stance on "progressive" or "prog". Confused
 
Expectation closes the door to what is happening in the moment.
 
Because the moment "ends", and all you have left is a memory of it. And this is my biggest problem with the definition and decisions made by the board to define "progressive" ... you can no longer listen to anything that is "progressive" or "prog" because it is no longer possible, or alive.
 
Our understanding changes what is that we understand.
 
No discussion required. Unffortunately a database does not know the difference between "understanding" and some random notes that supposedly becomes a "definition".
 
Performance is a vehicle for entering different worlds of experiencing.
 
Which a place like PA does not approve of, and denies the artist! Why? .. Easy ... because if one is in it for the experience you will rarely hear the same thing again, and that would create a problem for the top tens of the world, and for the PA's of the world and its fans! Wink
 

The science is in knowing, the art is in perceiving.
 
There is a slight issue with this ... and the 20th century has had an issue defining art properly because of it. The art is not necessarily in perceiving ... because EVERYONE can perceive something. The real ART is not in the the "science of knowing", which is just an academic pursuit. The real art is learning HOW to translate that perception into something that is "music", or "painting", or a "novel", or ... someone trying to help clarify some of these so they do not sound "ellusive" and "weird" ... and just sounding "cool" ... which is NOT what Robert is about and never has been!
 
The future is what the present can bear.
 
This is a bit tougher to work with ... because we are not very good at foreseeing the future, any more than we are at dealing with it, if we knew the consequences ... and how many novels and science fiction works have forever been written about that!
 
And this is hard and all hearsay and innuendo, because we do not have any criteria with which we can validate a future. There is, however, a SMALL thread that is called "history" that can give us some idea and hints as to what it might have or entail, but even that is a chance thing, and a very academic model, and not a very good design for the future. Which is where a lot of economic policies tend to go wrong all over the world, when they do not handle their "present" very well at all.
 
The way we describe our world shows how we think of our world.
How we think of our world directs how we interpret our world.
How we interpret our world governs how we participate in it.
How we participate in the world shapes the world.
 
Self explanatory ... if it is all you know, what makes you think that you can come up with something else that is totally different? ... not a very good chance, but it will be a lot of fun over a bottle of wine or smoke to discuss!
 

There are few things as convincing as death to remind us of the quality with which we live our life.
 
I think this is a bit fatalistic, and not necessary. You do not need to be reminded that you are mortal to do what you have to do as a person all your life. The belief is that these inner experiences, tend to make you pay better attention and understand yourself better, and that is a 50/50 wish-along. There are many artists, and people, that just are, and you and I might think they are quite innocent and unknowing about these things, and simply read their good book day in and day out and live light just right and fine for everyone's tastes.
 
Your quality of life is based on your own perception and experience ... and not many of us are willing, or capable, of discussing that thing that Robert is mentioning. It is a very difficult thing to make sense of, and even worse to explain, and all shrinks and psychos and PA users, are usually too stuck on their own ideas, rather than listening to what the person is saying ... we end up saying ... he's really messed up ... because automatically our experience negates the others.Cool
 
 
 
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 16:13
Originally posted by cstack3

My friend Wayne and I met Fripp during his "Drive to 1981," when he played a local music store with his Frippertronics rig.  That's how we came to bump into Bob at subsequent gigs in Chicago.

Backstage after a blazing concert with The League of Gentlemen, I asked Fripp if he planned any more tours of record stores....

He looked at me oddly, gave me a crooked smile and said "Not with this band!"   Ouch
 
I think that it is important that you clarify his words on this, otherwise it makes him sound like ... this is not a band, or something that we would record!
 
It was an experimental time and place, and everyone was trying different things at different times ... and it was great and you and I love it ... but try to get these commerically minded folks, and top ten enthusiasts, to appreciate a lot of meandering and this and that solo over a solo over a solo ... and all that improvisation ... and all you get is ... not progressive ... or worse ... not prog!
 
The point was that he was ok doing this and getting some support, but a record company was not going to dish out money to put together an album with stuff like that ... which he had experience with before, in case you don't remember ... further back in time to Fripp and Eno sometime! ... and it was lucky that was recorded and even placed on LP, and I hear that it sold a measly amount ... so measly that the record companies knew to avoid those experiments like the plague! You know about that!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 18:16
I only answer this post because it is another in a succession of snipes at the PA:
 
Originally posted by moshkito


Equilibrium is not static.
 
It can't be static, otherwise there is no equilibrium. Try telling that to PA and their stance on "progressive" or "prog". Confused
First you will have to explain to me exactly what the PA's stance is on "progressive" or "prog".
 
Secondly, your interpretation of the quotation isn't strictly accurate since the statement isn't commutative as such - an object (real or otherwise) that is static is in a state of equilibrium by definition.
 
Thirdly, once you accept that word order is somewhat key to any interpretation of any phrase then any perception that you may have can be radically altered by leaving the words in the correct order and not rearranging them to fit a preconception.
 
Originally posted by moshkito

 
Expectation closes the door to what is happening in the moment.
 
Because the moment "ends", and all you have left is a memory of it. And this is my biggest problem with the definition and decisions made by the board to define "progressive" ... you can no longer listen to anything that is "progressive" or "prog" because it is no longer possible, or alive.
That's is also a misinterpretation or even a misunderstanding - Expectations are preconceptions of moments yet to happen - once you have those preconceptions any immediate understanding of that moment when it happens will be obscured by personal bias. Quite how that becomes twisted into a verbal attack on the people who contribute to this site is a mystery to me.
Originally posted by moshkito

 
Our understanding changes what is that we understand.
 
No discussion required. Unffortunately a database does not know the difference between "understanding" and some random notes that supposedly becomes a "definition".
LOL Then, perhaps a few personal opinions and some half-remembered anecdotes are a more accurate way of understanding a definition, but that's for another site, not ours.
 
*shakes head*
 
Originally posted by moshkito

 
Performance is a vehicle for entering different worlds of experiencing.
 
Which a place like PA does not approve of, and denies the artist! Why? .. Easy ... because if one is in it for the experience you will rarely hear the same thing again, and that would create a problem for the top tens of the world, and for the PA's of the world and its fans! Wink
Where? Come on - one more time for the people at the back - show me where it is the "PA" does this because for the life of me I cannot see it. One site,  6,641 bands & artists, 34,013 albums (LP, CD and DVD), 514,886 ratings and reviews from 36,602 members ... that's 36,602 different opinions on 34,013 different "performances" by "6,641" artists that we are supposed to be denying.
 
You line them up and I'll knock them down.
 
 
 
 
 
I'll stop there because what followed wasn't directed at PA specifically and I have no interest in pseudobabble.


Edited by Dean - November 14 2011 at 18:17


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2011 at 12:11
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by cstack3

My friend Wayne and I met Fripp during his "Drive to 1981," when he played a local music store with his Frippertronics rig.  That's how we came to bump into Bob at subsequent gigs in Chicago.

Backstage after a blazing concert with The League of Gentlemen, I asked Fripp if he planned any more tours of record stores....

He looked at me oddly, gave me a crooked smile and said "Not with this band!"   Ouch
 
I think that it is important that you clarify his words on this, otherwise it makes him sound like ... this is not a band, or something that we would record!


Hah!  The joke was that League of Gentlemen were LOUD and brash!  If you tried to do a LOG gig in a music store, the windows would have blown out!!  

His music-store shows were a display of his "small, mobile, independent  & intelligent unit" - Robert Fripp with guitar and effects.  


"And those, of course, are the attributes of the new world: small, mobile, independent, and intelligent units, whether it's, ah ... instead of a city, you'll get small self-sufficient communities, modern villages. And instead of King Crimson, you're now getting me - a small, independent, mobile, and intelligent unit. That's substantially the difference between the old world and the new."

It was quite remarkable to meet Fripp at the top of his game!!  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Neck Romancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2011 at 14:10
This one is pretty famous:

Originally posted by Robert Fripp

I will sue you
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steven in Atlanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2011 at 13:28
"To the gentleman who suggested that we (King Crimson) play louder. May I suggest that he simply listens more intently."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2011 at 16:47
Originally posted by Dean

It can't be static, otherwise there is no equilibrium. Try telling that to PA and their stance on "progressive" or "prog". Confused
 
First you will have to explain to me exactly what the PA's stance is on "progressive" or "prog".
[/quote]
 
It was a joke and not meant as a reality, though you think it is, because some of you folks are not willing to "sit down" and just have a cup of tea or a beer, and find out ... ohhh ... he's not disagreeing with us that bad! ... But sadly, all you are suggesting is that I am on a rampage against you guys and that is not the case!
 
Equilibrium, bu definition means that there is a difference in states between two things/sides/ideas. If they are static, COULD mean that they are not saying anything! ... but it would generally suggest that these are different, which means that they can not be static or the equilibrium is static for some reason ... 2 kids on one of those big boards on top of something, one on each side and one kid is heavier ... if they don't push with their legs and the weight is evenly distributed or the length of each side is different to make up for the kid's size, the equilibrium negates itself and does not favor any of the sides and could swing each way.
 
Thirdly, once you accept that word order is somewhat key to any interpretation of any phrase then any perception that you may have can be radically altered by leaving the words in the correct order and not rearranging them to fit a preconception.
 
 
And I would suggest that you are not looking at my interpretation and suggesting that yours is correct and mine isn't. Now we're definitly not static, and there is no equilibrium!
 
Expectation closes the door to what is happening in the moment.
....
That's is also a misinterpretation or even a misunderstanding - Expectations are preconceptions of moments yet to happen - once you have those preconceptions any immediate understanding of that moment when it happens will be obscured by personal bias. Quite how that becomes twisted into a verbal attack on the people who contribute to this site is a mystery to me.
 
The problem lies when the "expectation" becomes a definition and a supposed "reality" ... and the advent of the term "progressive" is one such idea.
 
Mind you, I am not against identifying our much loved time and place and the amount of work and love that folks like you and I and so many others put in to help so many of these get attention ... but the definitions, in most places are not "artistic" as most of the work that we discuss is. However, I accept that from you, since you have already stated that you didn't think this was art ... it was just popular music ... but again, why should a commercial endevor be "defined" by terms that are probably not ... a part of music history itself, or have (what I perceive) a valid artistic aspects that are not visible in all the other arts at the time ... I'm would never say that they did not "exist", but the parallels are missing, and as such it renders the definitions empty and not meaningful.
 
All I'm looking for is a stronger expression to help validate the term and YOUR work. Not saying it is wrong. It's just NOT COMPLETE as it could be!
 
Performance is a vehicle for entering different worlds of experiencing.
... 
Where? Come on - one more time for the people at the back - show me where it is the "PA" does this because for the life of me I cannot see it. One site,  6,641 bands & artists, 34,013 albums (LP, CD and DVD), 514,886 ratings and reviews from 36,602 members ... that's 36,602 different opinions on 34,013 different "performances" by "6,641" artists that we are supposed to be denying.
 
You did not see the icon, I take it.
 
Can you take a joke?
 
In too many discussions that I have been a part of, it has been common place for several folks here, to not like "improvisation" to the point where various definitions of the term state out front that "improvisation" is not allowed. The basis of ALL music is improvisation, albeit one could say that Mozart used color to define what the next note or this or that would be and Bach was known for doing the same thing. In other words, the ability for you and I do define what is "improvisation" is nearly impossible ... but it is not out of the ordinary for you and I to be meandering at the piano and come up with a nice song that all of a sudden  ... lucky us ... would sell! The color thing comes from that "perfect pitch" guy. Really interesting musical ideas, many of which appeal to Robert and he uses, btw!
 
As I said before, all I'm looking for is a better way to help people find things here and CONNECT the dots better ... it's totally bizarre here ... you have Fricke saying something from an interview, or a Hattler ... and you do not incorporate it into the blurbs for the artist ... and the same for Robert Fripp. In the end, it is a person that lives inside his ideas and obviously thinks (so do YOU and I ... and all those good people!) that it is important for them to understand that side in order to help create his/her/their work. And too much of the work on some artists is stated as "not this or that" ... and that is not a good explanation of the work, and tends to negate the validity of the work itself ... you will notice I do NOT use those terms in my reviews as such.
 
All I have been working on as adding "DEPTH" to the work that you have, which is massive, very good and then some. This is not an attempt at hackling or jackling it all ... because I would not have anything to replace it with ... and I don't like destroying for the sake of destruction (hear John L here?) ...
 
The work here, wether you agree or not, is already the biggest and has the most ... now the idea of making it even better and stronger ... that's another story ... unffortunately, computer folks and database folks think way too much code ... it was like Butler at Everquest almost 10 years ago ... "we need new ideas ... but we can't change the code because it is too big and too difficult to get around" ... and in the end? ... all it did is kill a game ... because of the lack of ability to add new ideas and new suggestions.
 
Look, you guys could not even look and say anything about the connection to movies, literature and other works in the thread I ended up deleting ... meaning that you can not see beyond "rock music" ... and between you and I, Dean, none of you guys are that thin ... there are some magic and wonderful people here and I want their work to be remembered. You included. But screw Mosh, we don't need him, or is it we don't want him and his ideas?
 
Step outside the comfort zone ... I'm not the Devil or a monster!


Edited by moshkito - November 16 2011 at 16:53
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tony R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2011 at 17:04
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by Dean


It can't be static, otherwise there is no equilibrium. Try telling that to PA and their stance on "progressive" or "prog". Confused

 

First you will have to explain to me exactly what the PA's stance is on "progressive" or "prog".


 

It was a joke and not meant as a reality, though you think it is, because some of you folks are not willing to "sit down" and just have a cup of tea or a beer, and find out ... ohhh ... he's not disagreeing with us that bad! ... But sadly, all you are suggesting is that I am on a rampage against you guys and that is not the case!

 

Equilibrium, bu definition means that there is a difference in states between two things/sides/ideas. If they are static, COULD mean that they are not saying anything! ... but it would generally suggest that these are different, which means that they can not be static or the equilibrium is static for some reason ... 2 kids on one of those big boards on top of something, one on each side and one kid is heavier ... if they don't push with their legs and the weight is evenly distributed or the length of each side is different to make up for the kid's size, the equilibrium negates itself and does not favor any of the sides and could swing each way.

 


Thirdly, once you accept that word order is somewhat key to any interpretation of any phrase then any perception that you may have can be radically altered by leaving the words in the correct order and not rearranging them to fit a preconception.

 

 

And I would suggest that you are not looking at my interpretation and suggesting that yours is correct and mine isn't. Now we're definitly not static, and there is no equilibrium!

 


Expectation closes the door to what is happening in the moment.

....

That's is also a misinterpretation or even a misunderstanding - Expectations are preconceptions of moments yet to happen - once you have those preconceptions any immediate understanding of that moment when it happens will be obscured by personal bias. Quite how that becomes twisted into a verbal attack on the people who contribute to this site is a mystery to me.


 

The problem lies when the "expectation" becomes a definition and a supposed "reality" ... and the advent of the term "progressive" is one such idea.

 

Mind you, I am not against identifying our much loved time and place and the amount of work and love that folks like you and I and so many others put in to help so many of these get attention ... but the definitions, in most places are not "artistic" as most of the work that we discuss is. However, I accept that from you, since you have already stated that you didn't think this was art ... it was just popular music ... but again, why should a commercial endevor be "defined" by terms that are probably not ... a part of music history itself, or have (what I perceive) a valid artistic aspects that are not visible in all the other arts at the time ... I'm would never say that they did not "exist", but the parallels are missing, and as such it renders the definitions empty and not meaningful.

 

All I'm looking for is a stronger expression to help validate the term and YOUR work. Not saying it is wrong. It's just NOT COMPLETE as it could be!

 


Performance is a vehicle for entering different worlds of experiencing. ... 

Where? Come on - one more time for the people at the back - show me where it is the "PA" does this because for the life of me I cannot see it. One site,  6,641 bands & artists, 34,013 albums (LP, CD and DVD), 514,886 ratings and reviews from 36,602 members ... that's 36,602 different opinions on 34,013 different "performances" by "6,641" artists that we are supposed to be denying.

 

You did not see the icon, I take it.

 

Can you take a joke?

 

In too many discussions that I have been a part of, it has been common place for several folks here, to not like "improvisation" to the point where various definitions of the term state out front that "improvisation" is not allowed. The basis of ALL music is improvisation, albeit one could say that Mozart used color to define what the next note or this or that would be and Bach was known for doing the same thing. In other words, the ability for you and I do define what is "improvisation" is nearly impossible ... but it is not out of the ordinary for you and I to be meandering at the piano and come up with a nice song that all of a sudden  ... lucky us ... would sell! The color thing comes from that "perfect pitch" guy. Really interesting musical ideas, many of which appeal to Robert and he uses, btw!

 

As I said before, all I'm looking for is a better way to help people find things here and CONNECT the dots better ... it's totally bizarre here ... you have Fricke saying something from an interview, or a Hattler ... and you do not incorporate it into the blurbs for the artist ... and the same for Robert Fripp. In the end, it is a person that lives inside his ideas and obviously thinks (so do YOU and I ... and all those good people!) that it is important for them to understand that side in order to help create his/her/their work. And too much of the work on some artists is stated as "not this or that" ... and that is not a good explanation of the work, and tends to negate the validity of the work itself ... you will notice I do NOT use those terms in my reviews as such.

 

All I have been working on as adding "DEPTH" to the work that you have, which is massive, very good and then some. This is not an attempt at hackling or jackling it all ... because I would not have anything to replace it with ... and I don't like destroying for the sake of destruction (hear John L here?) ...

 

The work here, wether you agree or not, is already the biggest and has the most ... now the idea of making it even better and stronger ... that's another story ... unffortunately, computer folks and database folks think way too much code ... it was like Butler at Everquest almost 10 years ago ... "we need new ideas ... but we can't change the code because it is too big and too difficult to get around" ... and in the end? ... all it did is kill a game ... because of the lack of ability to add new ideas and new suggestions.

 

Look, you guys could not even look and say anything about the connection to movies, literature and other works in the thread I ended up deleting ... meaning that you can not see beyond "rock music" ... and between you and I, Dean, none of you guys are that thin ... there are some magic and wonderful people here and I want their work to be remembered. You included. But screw Mosh, we don't need him, or is it we don't want him and his ideas?

 

Step outside the comfort zone ... I'm not the Devil or a monster!
[/QUOTE]

==========================================================================================



Amazing, absolutely stunning!

Google found a way of translating baby-talk.

Albeit a big baby with a huge ego.

Edited by Tony R - November 16 2011 at 17:08
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2011 at 19:23
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by moshkito

It can't be static, otherwise there is no equilibrium. Try telling that to PA and their stance on "progressive" or "prog". Confused
 
First you will have to explain to me exactly what the PA's stance is on "progressive" or "prog".
 
It was a joke and not meant as a reality, though you think it is, because some of you folks are not willing to "sit down" and just have a cup of tea or a beer, and find out ... ohhh ... he's not disagreeing with us that bad! ... But sadly, all you are suggesting is that I am on a rampage against you guys and that is not the case!
It was a snipe, whether a "humorous" one or not. Repeating the same thing over and over does not make it funny, just tiresome. If you were simply disagreeing with us I would be fine with that.
Originally posted by moshkito

Equilibrium, bu definition means that there is a difference in states between two things/sides/ideas. If they are static, COULD mean that they are not saying anything! ... but it would generally suggest that these are different, which means that they can not be static or the equilibrium is static for some reason ... 2 kids on one of those big boards on top of something, one on each side and one kid is heavier ... if they don't push with their legs and the weight is evenly distributed or the length of each side is different to make up for the kid's size, the equilibrium negates itself and does not favor any of the sides and could swing each way.
Oh dear. That's not what equilibrium means so your two kids on a seesaw/teeter-totter example is a poor one. Since equilibrium means balance between two opposing forces then the obvious imbalance between the two kids means that the board will never achieve equilibrium - pushing with their feet does not redistribute the weight along the board - there is a moment when the board is perfectly horizontal, but that is not a stable state so it is not "equilibrium" (ie it is not "balanced").
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by Dean

Thirdly, once you accept that word order is somewhat key to any interpretation of any phrase then any perception that you may have can be radically altered by leaving the words in the correct order and not rearranging them to fit a preconception.
 
And I would suggest that you are not looking at my interpretation and suggesting that yours is correct and mine isn't. Now we're definitly not static, and there is no equilibrium!
We definitely are static (as neither of us are changing our stance) and since the opposing "forces" are equal there is equilibrium. However, I was not interpreting Mr Fripp's quote, merely pointing out that you cannot change the order of the words and expect the meaning to be unchanged, so your latest comment is as inaccurate as your previous ones.
 
 
 
 
(I'm sorry but I'm going to have to restore the deleted sections (in blue) of the next bit because otherwise it looks like I was commenting on Mr Fripp's quote, which I wasn't)
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by dean

Originally posted by moshkito

Expectation closes the door to what is happening in the moment.
Because the moment "ends", and all you have left is a memory of it. And this is my biggest problem with the definition and decisions made by the board to define "progressive" ... you can no longer listen to anything that is "progressive" or "prog" because it is no longer possible, or alive.
That's is also a misinterpretation or even a misunderstanding - Expectations are preconceptions of moments yet to happen - once you have those preconceptions any immediate understanding of that moment when it happens will be obscured by personal bias. Quite how that becomes twisted into a verbal attack on the people who contribute to this site is a mystery to me.
The problem lies when the "expectation" becomes a definition and a supposed "reality" ... and the advent of the term "progressive" is one such idea.
(but unfortunately that hasn't help comprehension)
Sorry that flew over my head and landed in a crumpled heap against the back wall of my study, you're going to have to explain that one to me because I don't understand what you are saying. Expectations are of future events (ie those that have not happened yet) _ I don't see how (or why) this relates definitions or has anything to do with the term "Progressive" - that's a ludicrous notion as I understand it.
Originally posted by moshkito

Mind you, I am not against identifying our much loved time and place and the amount of work and love that folks like you and I and so many others put in to help so many of these get attention ... but the definitions, in most places are not "artistic" as most of the work that we discuss is. However, I accept that from you, since you have already stated that you didn't think this was art ... it was just popular music ... but again, why should a commercial endevor be "defined" by terms that are probably not ... a part of music history itself, or have (what I perceive) a valid artistic aspects that are not visible in all the other arts at the time ... I'm would never say that they did not "exist", but the parallels are missing, and as such it renders the definitions empty and not meaningful.
Our definitions and biographies are not meant to be "artistic" - "artistic" is exact opposite of what we want - they are also devoid of opinion and conjecture on purpose. We are not an encyclopedia nor are we a commentary on history - If that's what you want, look elsewhere.
 
I have never said this Prog Rock is not "art" and I will be the first to defend "Pop Music" as an art form. All I have ever said is that "Progressive Rock" never had (painting/fine) art, literature, theatre, cinema, dance, fashion or any other artistic endeavour associated with it. (And on this score I don't think that album art work really counts since there is no singular style of album art that was exclusive to Prog Rock - and though some will shout "Roger Dean!" in very loud voices - he was not solely Prog, he also did covers for non-Prog artists (eg Motown) that are indistinguishable in style from any of his other cover art).
 
I guess I'll be repeating this until my voice grows so faint that an angel's breath would carry it away. Ouch
Originally posted by moshkito

 
All I'm looking for is a stronger expression to help validate the term and YOUR work. Not saying it is wrong. It's just NOT COMPLETE as it could be!
Of course it isn't complete - it will always be a work in progress.
 
(another restoration (in blue):)
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by moshkito

Performance is a vehicle for entering different worlds of experiencing.
 
Which a place like PA does not approve of, and denies the artist! Why? .. Easy ... because if one is in it for the experience you will rarely hear the same thing again, and that would create a problem for the top tens of the world, and for the PA's of the world and its fans! Wink
Where? Come on - one more time for the people at the back - show me where it is the "PA" does this because for the life of me I cannot see it. One site,  6,641 bands & artists, 34,013 albums (LP, CD and DVD), 514,886 ratings and reviews from 36,602 members ... that's 36,602 different opinions on 34,013 different "performances" by "6,641" artists that we are supposed to be denying.
You did not see the icon, I take it.
I can see it now I've restored it Tongue
Originally posted by moshkito

Can you take a joke?
Better than you can make them Wink
 
(Are you going to answer my challenge or not?)
 
 
Originally posted by moshkito

In too many discussions that I have been a part of, it has been common place for several folks here, to not like "improvisation" to the point where various definitions of the term state out front that "improvisation" is not allowed. The basis of ALL music is improvisation, albeit one could say that Mozart used color to define what the next note or this or that would be and Bach was known for doing the same thing. In other words, the ability for you and I do define what is "improvisation" is nearly impossible ... but it is not out of the ordinary for you and I to be meandering at the piano and come up with a nice song that all of a sudden  ... lucky us ... would sell! The color thing comes from that "perfect pitch" guy. Really interesting musical ideas, many of which appeal to Robert and he uses, btw!
I've had a quick run through all our various definitions and none of them say out front that Improvisation is not allowed, in fact several of them declare improvisation as being part of the musical style, to the point where for Rock In Opposition we say that "Free or experimental improvisation" is one of its defining features. Another definition (for Rock Progressivo Italiano) quotes Franco Mussida of PFM "Progressive is basically a blending of three elements: the song, the improvisation inspired by jazz and the composition in classical style" (sorry that's not very London-centric of me quoting an Italian, but they were signed to Mantecore) - I think there are a dozen more (positive) references to improvisation in the definitions, I'll not quote them all here, just go and read them for yourself.
Originally posted by moshkito

As I said before, all I'm looking for is a better way to help people find things here and CONNECT the dots better ... it's totally bizarre here ... you have Fricke saying something from an interview, or a Hattler ... and you do not incorporate it into the blurbs for the artist ... and the same for Robert Fripp. In the end, it is a person that lives inside his ideas and obviously thinks (so do YOU and I ... and all those good people!) that it is important for them to understand that side in order to help create his/her/their work. And too much of the work on some artists is stated as "not this or that" ... and that is not a good explanation of the work, and tends to negate the validity of the work itself ... you will notice I do NOT use those terms in my reviews as such.
 
All I have been working on as adding "DEPTH" to the work that you have, which is massive, very good and then some. This is not an attempt at hackling or jackling it all ... because I would not have anything to replace it with ... and I don't like destroying for the sake of destruction (hear John L here?) ...
That's not what our defintions and biogrpahies are about and it's not how we want them. If that's what you want look elsewhere - there are dozens of websites and books where you can read that kind of biographical commentary stuff. Our biographies are without opinion and coment, they are simple chronological facts and nothing more; and that's all we want them to be. Also, please do not confuse artist biographies with album reviews that appear on the Artist pages - the former is under our control, the latter is not.
 
What people write in their reviews is their opinion and their concern - we do not have editorial control over reviews and we don't want to impose such restrictions either-  we have guidelines for people to follow, but what they write is their opinions ON THE MUSIC NOT THE ARTIST in their own words - allowing people to express their views without interferance from "the owners" is important to us and we will preserve and defend it.
 
Similarily do not confuse the forum with the PA database - two functions, two different purposes.
Originally posted by moshkito

The work here, wether you agree or not, is already the biggest and has the most ... now the idea of making it even better and stronger ... that's another story ... unffortunately, computer folks and database folks think way too much code ... it was like Butler at Everquest almost 10 years ago ... "we need new ideas ... but we can't change the code because it is too big and too difficult to get around" ... and in the end? ... all it did is kill a game ... because of the lack of ability to add new ideas and new suggestions.
A-ha, so this is what all this sniping at the PA is about. If that's what you want then the PA is probably not the place. We are a music review site, and one specifically targeted at a select subset of popular music - you wouldn't go to the IMDB and demand they include restaurant and bicycle reviews simply because people who watch films also like to eat food and ride bicycles, so why get upset with us?
Originally posted by moshkito

Look, you guys could not even look and say anything about the connection to movies, literature and other works in the thread I ended up deleting ... meaning that you can not see beyond "rock music" ... and between you and I, Dean, none of you guys are that thin ... there are some magic and wonderful people here and I want their work to be remembered. You included. But screw Mosh, we don't need him, or is it we don't want him and his ideas?
We have a book thread and a film thread both of which have run to many pages and many posts - but that's about as deep as anyone here ever wants to get on those two subjects - even when most of the people who post in either of those threads are rather erudite by most standards. We have people here who like art-house films and read books so heavy that I'd only use them to prop open a door in hot weather, if they could not be motivated to delve into your forum threads then no one here can force them, and it certainly would not justify completely restructuring the PA side of the site to accommodate IMDB or Amazon style book and film reviews (of Prog-related films of course) .
Originally posted by moshkito

Step outside the comfort zone ... I'm not the Devil or a monster!
No one ever said you were, but of you keep sniping at the PA and the collaborators then we will draw our own conclusions.


Edited by Dean - November 16 2011 at 20:04


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2011 at 00:08
About King Crimson, LTIA era:  

"We're not be be enjoyed.  We're an intellectual band!"




Edited by cstack3 - November 17 2011 at 00:08
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Intruder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2011 at 11:49
Fripp is obviously a bright guy, but he often comes off as such an arrogant knob....puts a lot of folks off but I've always thought it was part of his wit and charm.  After all, anyone who plays like he does is bound to have to explain himself again and again and again.  Probably gets to be a bit of a chore, thus the smart-ass remarks.
 
I love his quote about music being the nektar that fills the cup of silence (or something like that).....groovy stuff.
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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