Is obscure, difficult prog deeper or more ... |
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paganinio
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 07 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
Topic: Is obscure, difficult prog deeper or more ... Posted: January 27 2012 at 23:13 |
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Is obscure, difficult prog deeper or more rewarding than pleasant, accessible one?
When I think obscure, difficult prog, I think Van der Graaf Generator, Zeuhl, Can's Tago Mago, Lark's Tongue and the like. Often stuff that I can't even spell without looking at their correct spelling. I never got into any obscure prog releases. So I'm wondering, if one day I did get into them, would I feel that they're deeper or more rewarding than easy-to-get-into prog works? Examples of the latter: Porcupine Tree - Fear of a Blank Planet, Opeth - Still Life, King Crimson - Epitaph, Pink Floyd - Echoes. |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: January 27 2012 at 23:27 | |
Only a hard-line snob would give an unhesitating yes to your question. I know plenty of superficial shallow folks who immediately stop listening to certain bands as soon as they become commercially successful or popular.
BTW I'm puzzled you consider Porcupine Tree either obscure or difficult?. |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: January 27 2012 at 23:31 | |
People get enjoyment and satisfaction out of different things. Anyone who tries to say one ways of appreciating aesthetics like this is massively self-involved.
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SaltyJon
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 08 2008 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 28772 |
Posted: January 27 2012 at 23:47 | |
Only to those who prefer it to the more "pleasant, accessible" stuff. To each his or her own, no music is inherently better or deeper or anything than any other music.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 27 2012 at 23:50 | |
/thread |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64384 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 00:05 | |
I'd say the many directions and choices are one of the perks of Prog in contrast to many other genres; obscure and deep or common and shallow, it all counts
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Billy Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 28 2010 Location: Austin Status: Offline Points: 1505 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 01:22 | |
He was referring to PT as an easy to get into prog band, along with Opeth. Which is pretty true I suppose. |
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 01:31 | |
I would say, move into new stuff, if you feel stuck, dosent matter what direction.
If you are happy with what you like, stay with it.
What is obscure, and what is not, is just a matter of preference. Took me some listning to get into the heavy side of music, to others Miles Davis or Stravinsky sounds obscure.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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2dogs
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 03 2011 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 705 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 02:19 | |
I could only listen to "Oh Yeah" on "Tago Mago" at first, but kept coming back to the album and trying again. After ten years or so I found I enjoyed the whole of sides one and two, but not really any more than music that appealed to me straight away. Now I have a much larger collection and keep finding new music to add to it, I don't see any need to torture myself with "Aumgn" any more. VdGG and KC didn't give me the same problems, I like them both, but prefer a random iPod mix nowadays where they're mixed in with contrasting sounds.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 17995 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 02:20 | |
I like weird stuff k
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 04:21 | |
Apologies, misread that part |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 04:28 | |
You need balance. The weird may be harder to get into but can be a lot of fun. In the end you have no obligation to appreciate the more difficult stuff but if it clicks enjoy it and understand that isn't likely anyone around you can share it with.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5093 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 05:17 | |
Nearly by definition, pop is considered more pleasant and accessible than prog by the vast majority of people.
Consequently and also nearly by definiton, prog is considered more obscure and difficult than pop by the vast majority of people.
Personally I find prog deeper and more rewarding than pop.
It would seem that by simple extrapolation, the answer to your question should be 'yes', but things are not that simple and for (I guess) most people even proggers and even avant-lovers, there is an inflection point where if you keep pushing things into being more difficult and weird, the pleasure of listening starts dropping again. I guess you could represent it by some sort of graphical curve raising and as from a certain point dropping again.
Where that inflection point lays depends on each individual, for pop-listeners it happens very early, for regular proggers it happens further ahead, for RIO-avant lovers it lays even further ahead. Nothing is better or worse, you have to find your inflection point and stay around there.
Frequently it's the balance of what you listen to, I can really enjoy some really simple stuff and some really difficult stuff, but any of both in excessive dose will tire me quickly, while if I stay listening to music which is around my inflection point it will take me much longer to get tired.
Ah, and of course where your inflection point lays can (usually does) change with time as your knowledge of music, tastes and age evolve.
Edited by Gerinski - January 28 2012 at 09:11 |
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JS19
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 10 2010 Location: Lancaster, UK Status: Offline Points: 1321 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 05:18 | |
If I just have difficult music I get frustrated with it sometimes, if I just have easy listening it washes straight over me some days. You need a mix of both to fully enjoy your music collection.
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frippism
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 27 2010 Location: Tel Aviv Status: Offline Points: 4160 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 05:45 | |
I think that accessibility is a trait in music that shouldn't judge whether the album's good or not. If an album is good at first listen- then it's a good album. If you have a hard time getting the album- listen to it until you actually understand what's going on- then judge. For example, I had to listen to Deathspell Omega abrasive style of weird prog black metal like 20 time to find out that in the end the album just had great song writing. Don't let the accessibility of a band waver your judgement of good, deep, intelligent, song-writing, and that includes accessible and inaccessible bands. There's only one bad type of bad bands- the ones who write bad songs, not the ones who write difficult ones. Difficult albums can be as deep as "easy listening" albums- a band's sound doesn't have anything to do with its song-writing skills.
Edited by frippism - January 28 2012 at 05:45 |
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There be dragons
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RedSheep
Forum Newbie Joined: August 01 2011 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 08:44 | |
The first Time I listened to Zappa I bought Burnt-weenie sandwich and the only song I liked was WPLJ which as quite a commercial sound but the rest I just didn't like, It wasn't until i set some time apart to really go through it on its own that I began to appreciate how well composed it was.
With King Crimson the same thing happened, It's really a band where some of it can't be background music, so whenever I listened to a new album I'd find a quiet hour to really give it a chance. Power to believe is well worth the hour Then opeth were my first growly kind of band, I hated growling in music, and still kinda do. Then I saw them live with Dream Theater and Deliverance blew my mind! From then it was just a matter of time before I became a big fan. So I think that prog rock is in itself quite difficult, anything that you have to concentrate on to enjoy must be, and if rewarded is the word then yes, I feel more rewarded listening to it. However I'm also a big Led Zep fan, Bjork, Rachmaninoff, Guns and Roses and many others where the music can be tough, but I'll enjoy it straight off. It's not generally more difficult and I don't feel rewarded, but damn it feels good to rock out to. I don't care what anyone says the live version of Move To the City is one of the greatest songs in the world. Your question had me going all nostalgic there, thanks! TLDR: Great question, I feel that if you take the time to listen to difficult music properly and you still enjoy it the it then you feel more rewarded, but it doesn't mean you have to listen to obscure music to enjoy things more. There's a thick blur between difficult and pretentious. |
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 08:58 | |
It's a mixed bag. Some has a quality to it that is like classical music.
It's clean, it's uplifting or educational. Some "difficult" music is otherwise. I don't find the latter deep. Just because music is weird or sounds obtuse doesn't mean it's deep on my level. -- np Heinrick Finck (1444-1527) - Wer ich eyn falck - Invicto regi jubilo |
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PabstRibbon
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 26 2009 Location: Québec Status: Offline Points: 925 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 10:42 | |
IMO from all of those you named the only one that can fits with your description is maybe Can Tago Mago. I don't feel that the others are 'obscur', in facts they are kind of classic prog for me. Anyway that's my opinion but I think that a good album is an album that will gives you the feeling of always wanting to listen to it and discover new things in it. So yes, the more you gives attention to a record, the more you'll be rewarded. It's all about finding the style you like the most and that similar to your taste.
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progprogprog
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 05 2011 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 11:25 | |
Same here, I don't think classic prog is weird or difficult to listen to.The only obstacle that keeping you from enjoying classic prog is that your soul haven't yet got familiar to the whole thing.I'm not saying anyone who loves PT or Opeth kinda bands will someday join classic prog, but odds are that they may like it later.
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progprogprog
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 05 2011 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
Posted: January 28 2012 at 11:31 | |
IMO mostly one finds their main music taste around ages 20-25.
Edited by progprogprog - January 28 2012 at 11:33 |
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