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TOP 100 Progressive Music Albums

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    Posted: May 28 2015 at 18:04
Originally posted by misterprog misterprog wrote:

let me check if I undestood well...
QWR for the top 100 is different from QWR of a specific year, correct?
Correct. 

The average rating  R and the average number of votes per album N for all albums in the given sample. So for the all time top 100 they are calculated using every album in the PA database whereas for a specific year they are calculated using only albums from that year. Similarly, if you filtered on subgenre then only albums from that subgenre would be used.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2015 at 15:10
Originally posted by gooner666 gooner666 wrote:

Im curious how Hand Cannot Erase got in the top 100 so fast. Im pretty new here is that normal? Awesome site!!!Smile

Well you've got two effects going on, (1) new albums for fan favorite bands (SW, IQ, etc) tend to get a lot of very positive reviews from fanboys when it initially comes out with the rest of the listeners typically posting later on with lower ratings so you get an early jump up the charts (2) these bands get a lot of ratings overall so tend to be higher up the chart. Looking at Magma MDK that is two spots above Hand.Cannot.Erase, it's been out since 1973 so has been getting ratings from probably fairly early in the sites life, whenever Magma were added, and has a total 679 ratings. H.C.E. has 544 ratings in the short time it has been on.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gooner666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2015 at 14:57
Im curious how Hand Cannot Erase got in the top 100 so fast. Im pretty new here is that normal? Awesome site!!!Smile

Edited by gooner666 - May 28 2015 at 15:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote misterprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2015 at 06:15
let me check if I undestood well...
QWR for the top 100 is different from QWR of a specific year, correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2015 at 03:38
Originally posted by misterprog misterprog wrote:

aany reason why in the top 100 some albums do not appear even if they have a hiher rating than the number 100?
Only one reason. QWR - Query Weighted Rating - this is a weighted arithmetic mean that takes into account the number of ratings that each album has compared to the mean for the whole population (i.e., rated average and number of ratings average).

For example if there are 100 albums that only have one rating each and those are all rated at 5-stars then the Top 100 would consist of nothing but those albums since their unweighted average would be "5.00"

Originally posted by Dean, in another thread, </span><span style=font-size: 11px; line-height: 13.9999990463257px; : rgb248, 248, 252;>19 May 2014 at 01:42</span><span style=line-height: 16.5454540252686px;> Dean, in another thread, 19 May 2014 at 01:42 wrote:

 
The QWR formula is:

QWR = (NR + nr) / (N + n)

where QWR is the weighted rating, R is the average rating of all albums, N is the average number of votes per album for all albums, r is the album average and n is the number of ratings.

The effect of calculating the QWR is two-fold: 
    1. As the number of ratings surpasses N, the weighted rating QWR approaches the actual average r. ie QWR  (nr) / (n)
    2. The closer "n" is to zero, the closer QWR  gets to R. ie  QWR  (NR) / (N)
So, in simpler terms, albums with very few ratings/votes will have a rating weighted towards the average across all albums, while albums with many ratings/votes will have a rating weighted towards their own average rating. 

Therefore once the number of ratings for an album gets really big (ie n is much larger than N) then the actual value of the average rating r will have more effect on the formula than the chart average rating R and the QWR value will approach the actual average rating value r.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote misterprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2015 at 03:28
aany reason why in the top 100 some albums do not appear even if they have a hiher rating than the number 100?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2015 at 20:44
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Dean, hello you fluffy cute grumpy HugBig smile
Hello Sonia, flattery will get you nowhere... 

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Yes true what you said but atleast they will have a little less effect on the ratings scores. Also why, unlike other sites does P.A. allow people to rate albums without signing in properly?
I can't comment on that because I'm not M@X.
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Big hug to you Hug
Thank you, hugs are welcome in moderation. Hug

there is no so such thing as moderation unless you have a stalker (that's called creepy) WinkBig smileHug
M@X looks like Harvey Specter from SUITS aka hot, insightful and smart Approve I am sure if we arise this problem and come up with a better alternative he will be open to it http://www.proadviser.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/h06.jpg


Edited by Kati - April 15 2015 at 20:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2015 at 20:22
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Dean, hello you fluffy cute grumpy HugBig smile
Hello Sonia, flattery will get you nowhere... 

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Yes true what you said but atleast they will have a little less effect on the ratings scores. Also why, unlike other sites does P.A. allow people to rate albums without signing in properly?
I can't comment on that because I'm not M@X.
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Big hug to you Hug
Thank you, hugs are welcome in moderation. Hug


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2015 at 20:14
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I think he was meaning to forbid 1 and 5 star rating-only's (without review).
Gerinski! Heart That is a brilliant option really! And would stop a lot of the very silly ratings, considering that most albums/bands added on PA certainly deserve more than 1 star because it's not easy to be accepted on this site and 5 star ratings are given easily too Smile big hug to you! Hug
Sorry Sonia, but if you think about the consequences of that all it does is skew the averages towards the centre because those people will now be distributing their rating-only between 2-star and 4-star ratings, or if they are really smart - give 2-star ratings to bands they don't like and nothing at all to those they do. The silly ratings would continue unabated. 

Also, we do not accept bands here based on whether they are good or not. The only criteria is they have to be Prog.
Dean, hello you fluffy cute grumpy HugBig smile
Yes true what you said but atleast they will have a little less effect on the ratings scores. Also why, unlike other sites does P.A. allow people to rate albums without signing in properly?
Big hug to you Hug
P.S. In that acceptance criteria, any true prog band is surely more deserving than a 1 star rating. Unhappy


Edited by Kati - April 15 2015 at 20:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2015 at 20:11
To be honest, we keep fooling ourselves that the 60's & 70's era were the best prog album releases and this might be due to the romanticized magical mystique of the wonderful unknown of that era, added with the costumes, funny noises and most memorable tunes, however we cannot say that new bands are any less, to be honest i.e. Opeth and their album Pale Communion is not rivaling any of that and is unique brilliant as his own too. Hug  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2015 at 20:06
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I think he was meaning to forbid 1 and 5 star rating-only's (without review).
Gerinski! Heart That is a brilliant option really! And would stop a lot of the very silly ratings, considering that most albums/bands added on PA certainly deserve more than 1 star because it's not easy to be accepted on this site and 5 star ratings are given easily too Smile big hug to you! Hug
Sorry Sonia, but if you think about the consequences of that all it does is skew the averages towards the centre because those people will now be distributing their rating-only between 2-star and 4-star ratings, or if they are really smart - give 2-star ratings to bands they don't like and nothing at all to those they do. The silly ratings would continue unabated. 

Also, we do not accept bands here based on whether they are good or not. The only criteria is they have to be Prog.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2015 at 19:54
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I think he was meaning to forbid 1 and 5 star rating-only's (without review).
Gerinski! Heart That is a brilliant option really! And would stop a lot of the very silly ratings, considering that most albums/bands added on PA certainly deserve more than 1 star because it's not easy to be accepted on this site and 5 star ratings are given easily too Smile big hug to you! Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marcuse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2015 at 02:34
I understan I came in a never ending duscussion, but I am too young in PA and I am learning. The prog universe is full of good or bad, it is as it is, on the contrary would not be prog....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2015 at 09:02
I think he was meaning to forbid 1 and 5 star rating-only's (without review).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aglasshouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2015 at 08:20
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Yayamimi Yayamimi wrote:

One simple solution ......one and 5 stars can be given only posting a review that clearly demonstrate they at least know what they judge.....

How do you prove that?
That's true, it's hard to convey a clearly demonstrated opinion on ones music tastes via the internet. Unless they have an extensive and in-depth review of what the music, how are you to know what they judge?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2015 at 07:07
Originally posted by Yayamimi Yayamimi wrote:

One simple solution ......one and 5 stars can be given only posting a review that clearly demonstrate they at least know what they judge.....

How do you prove that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yayamimi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2015 at 20:25
I understand, but this is valid only for the great groups. When you consider a new group that hardly try to climb the mountain of success, to be in PA is a value. One simple solution ......one and 5 stars can be given only posting a review that clearly demonstrate they at least know what they judge.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:20
Originally posted by misterprog misterprog wrote:

the system is good. I just see one limit. Too often peole give 5 stars or one star without anydeep consideration. They judge how they like an album, while they should judge the quality of the music. I know it is difficult, but I give you a sample (I checked).If a guy doen't like progressive synphonic and an album is progressive synphonic, they will get 2 or 1 stars. I would like to find a system where the judgmente that are made from people that (from the hystory) do not like the gentre, will be authomatically cancelled.If a person dislike RPI and aafter 5 rating he ha an avarage of 1,5 he cannot judge RPI anymore. Maybe extreme,,,but more fair than now....


Forget those silly ratings, and especially the rankings based upon them.  They are for forum entertainment and never-ending forum discussion fodder. Did Genesis do 2 of the top 5 prog albums ever. HAH.  Of course not. It would really be stretch to include 1 in the top 10 if one takes a long view of all teh great stuff from all over the world. It is a popularity contest, and very anglo-centric at that.

It is in the text of the reviews where the value of them is.  Find a reviewer whose style you like, whom you feel to be objective and doesn't play favorites, and roll with those.  They are out there.


Edited by micky - March 07 2015 at 07:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2015 at 05:45
Originally posted by misterprog misterprog wrote:

the system is good. I just see one limit. Too often peole give 5 stars or one star without anydeep consideration. They judge how they like an album, while they should judge the quality of the music. I know it is difficult, but I give you a sample (I checked).If a guy doen't like progressive synphonic and an album is progressive synphonic, they will get 2 or 1 stars. I would like to find a system where the judgmente that are made from people that (from the hystory) do not like the gentre, will be authomatically cancelled.If a person dislike RPI and aafter 5 rating he ha an avarage of 1,5 he cannot judge RPI anymore. Maybe extreme,,,but more fair than now....


I get what you're saying and then again not. When we start taking away people's right to have an opinion (even when it's on an album in a genre they know nothing about), we're toiling with the very foundation of the website....and in my personal opinion turning it into something that reeks of music snobbery. Sorry, I get the intentions behind your request, but it is simply not doable. Andrey gave you the technical side of the problem in the post before mine, but the real pickle is the message such a change would implement.

Then again, any system based on ratings is bound to have flaws. None are infallible - believe me we've had this discussion before.......and anyway, the trick is to stop caring about ratings and rankings and just listen to what the reviewers (if they're any good) have to say about the music - find ones that mirror your own tastes and you're pretty much set up. Music is not a competition.


Edited by Guldbamsen - March 07 2015 at 06:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2015 at 02:44
^ Yes, we know about this problem, and yes, satisfying the proposition would be too laborious for anyone to seriously consider committing to it. Just my two cents.
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