"Freedom" thread or something

Gerinski wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: True. But anti-US factions would have little reason to kill a guy like Snowden.  Putting the US in such trouble in front of the international community, a little reason?!

Probably better to let him live and see what else he leaks out?

The T wrote: ^I agree, and even if I'm not too fond of Ecuador's government, I'm happy when a little country tells the US emperors Bush Obama Kerry Clinton Rice or whatever "f**k you, we do whatever the hell we want". For too long did every nation south of Mexico do the US' government bidding. It's sad that this is accompanied by atrocious socialist governments that hate internal freedom of expression but what can I say.

Yes I'm curious too. Of course he did not board on that plane to Havana, I can guess that it must have been one of the commercial flights with more spies on board ever 

This isn't a spy movie. They're not going to kill him.

Yeah. Imagining murder is a hoot.

Russia wouldn't give him up because over the past 20 years of international relations with Russia, the US has acted as if the Cold War was still raging. They've systematically botched relations which should have been very strong almost uniformly over the course of 4 presidents. 

While there was SOME sincerity to it, I admit the whole killing him thing was partly just my dreadful humor, and reference to Ron Paul's comment about a drone hitting him. For all the reasons stated I actually don't think he'll be killed. MoM has a good point, why would we give them the botd? They have indeed done it before but I just think its known enough, the "coincidence" of it would cause huge backlash.


heh of course the cold war never ended!!
We still have an embargo on Cuba (nevermind we opened up with trade with vietnam of all places first) and remember the part about Russia from the Wolfowitz Doctrine written back  '92
"We continue to recognize that collectively the conventional forces of the states formerly comprising the Soviet Union retain the most military potential in all of Eurasia; and we do not dismiss the risks to stability in Europe from a nationalist backlash in Russia or efforts to reincorporate into Russia the newly independent republics of Ukraine, Belarus, and possibly others....We must, however, be mindful that democratic change in Russia is not irreversible, and that despite its current travails, Russia will remain the strongest military power in Eurasia and the only power in the world with the capability of destroying the United States."

A year after its end and already thought was keep treating Russia as if its the USSR.
To be fair, more I think about it...I think the Cold War was just economic imperialism as usual, masked/partly involved with an ideological battle. Well the two were mixed...but can't say it was all ideology, Russia wants to keep trying to dominate much as ever. As does the US. As does China, and Germany and probably all strong powers.

It's a two way street, could we have slowly started mending relations? Sure, but that's quite noble....I mean after WWII there was huge chance to say: Hey, Uncle Joe...this was a huge mess, let's just stay respectful of each other, the world, and try to just move on. Truly foster a peaceful environment and etc but obviously both side almost instantly feel back to bad actions.
Not saying the US is clean, but Im sure Russia is super skeptical as well, takes two to tango.

I always found IR fascinating yet disturbing. It's such an amazing discussion to have, but makes me feel sick thinking human lives as chess pieces, and the inherent anti freedom involved with all of it :(
We're increasingly a globalized world of individuals,  being enforced by technology, but states still act like THEY are the individual actors. The friction is really increasing...


Edited by JJLehto - June 25 2013 at 18:57

manofmystery wrote: Just when you think Obama couldn't get more backward, idiotic, and tyrannical he comes out with a personal decree that, due to complete junk science that's bullsh*t in every way, the government will be controlling more of our behavior and crushing more jobs. Executive orders are acts of a tyrant and should be disregarded as completely unconstitutional.

manofmystery wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: This isn't a spy movie. They're not going to kill him. I don't put it past our government to murder an innocent citizen. They've done it before and, sadly, will do it again.

Neither do I. But not in this fashion.

And I guess that Ecuador must be quite a pleasant place to live in, surely better than Russia or Iceland.