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Topic ClosedKashmir vs. Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Part 1)
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Poll Question: Which tune from 1975 do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
46 [67.65%]
22 [32.35%]
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Dellinger View Drop Down
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Points: 12608 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2012 at 17:18
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:


Originally posted by PyramidMeetsTheEye PyramidMeetsTheEye wrote:

isnt kashimr from led zeppeling and arent led zeppelin an hard rock band

After Yes' Tales came out---Jimmy Page said in an interview in Melody Maker---(I own lot's of vintage Melody Makers) that he wanted to do something artistic and complex like Yes did with Tales---then Kashmir and that whole album came out by Zep and it was their version of arty Zep---it may not be prog in the purist sense--but it's not just blues oriented hard rock.


I believe I read somewhere, or heard on the radio, that either Plant or Page (don't remember who) once complained about Led Zeppelin being labeled "Hard Rock" or "Heavy", or whatever word was used back then, given than more than half of their songs were acoustic... now I haven't counted how many of their songs are acoustic or not, so it's not me saying that is true.
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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2012 at 17:59
Kashmir is staggeringly dull. It should have been two and a half minutes, tops. I don't know why people like it so much.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Points: 330 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2012 at 18:00
Shine On. Finnforest is correct, Kashmir is boring!
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jude111 View Drop Down
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Points: 1741 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2012 at 20:49

Was it Ellington or Satchmo who said, when asked to explain jazz, said, "There's some people that, if they don't know, you can't tell them."

In that spirit: "Kashmir" is not boring or staggeringly dull. You don't get it, that's all. Nothing wrong with that. I don't get zeuhl. I didn't get Genesis till about, oh, I don't know, 8 years a go. Then I was hooked. I still don't get why Jethro Tull's rated so highly. To each his/her own. Variety's the spice of life and all that. It's a great thing.

From Wikipedia:

All four members of Led Zeppelin have agreed that "Kashmir" is one of their best musical achievements.[12] John Paul Jones suggested that it showcases all of the elements that made up the Led Zeppelin sound.[1] Plant has stated that "Kashmir" is the "definitive Led Zeppelin song",[13] and that it "was one of my favourite [Led] Zeppelin tracks because it possessed all the latent energy and power that wasn't heavy metal. It was something else. It was the pride of Led Zeppelin."[6] During a television interview in January 2008, he also named "Kashmir" as his first choice of all Led Zeppelin songs that he would perform, commenting "I'm most proud of that one".[14] Page has indicated he thinks that the song is one of the band's best compositions.[15]

Led Zeppelin expert Dave Lewis describes "Kashmir" as:

Unquestionably the most startling and impressive track on Physical Graffiti, and arguably the most progressive and original track that Led Zeppelin ever recorded. 'Kashmir' went a long way towards establishing their credibility with otherwise sceptical rock critics. Many would regard this track as the finest example of the sheer majesty of Zeppelin's special chemistry.[2]

The song is listed highly in a number of professional music rankings:

Publication Country Accolade Year Rank
Classic Rock United States "The Top Fifty Classic Rock Songs of All Time"[16] 1995 20
Classic Rock United Kingdom "Ten of the Best Songs Ever!!.. (Bubbling under)"[17] 1999 23
VH1 United States "The 100 Greatest Rock Songs of All Time"[18] 2000 62
Rolling Stone United States "The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time"[19] 2003 141
Blender United States "Standout Tracks from the 500 CDs You Must Own"[20] 2003 *
Q United Kingdom "1010 Songs You Must Own!"[21] 2004 *
Q United Kingdom "Ultimate Music Collection - Rock"[22] 2005 *
Q United Kingdom "100 Greatest Songs of All Time"[23] 2006 74
VH1 United States "VH1 Greatest Hard Rock Songs"[24] 2009 21
JJJ Australia "Hottest 100 of All Time"[25] 2009 98
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jude111 View Drop Down
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Points: 1741 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2012 at 20:56
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Kashmir. It's among Zeps best tracks, imo.

I only really like the intro and build up in SOYCD. I don't think the song is that remarkable to be honest, and when the sax comes in at the end, it's one of the biggest anti climaxes in prog rock, I can think of.



Judging by your ID icon, you must be a Future Sound of London fan. LIFEFORMS is an amazing album. Can never get enough of tracks like "Papua New Guinea" and "Cascade." Been listening to them a lot lately, and Herrmann & Kleine too :-)
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 11:22
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:


Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Kashmir. It's among Zeps best tracks, imo.

I only really like the intro and build up in SOYCD. I don't think the song is that remarkable to be honest, and when the sax comes in at the end, it's one of the biggest anti climaxes in prog rock, I can think of.
Judging by your ID icon, you must be a Future Sound of London fan. LIFEFORMS is an amazing album. Can never get enough of tracks like "Papua New Guinea" and "Cascade." Been listening to them a lot lately, and Herrmann & Kleine too :-)


Yeah, I love FSOL. Lifeforms is one my favourite albums of all time.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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NickHall View Drop Down
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Points: 144 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2012 at 17:16
I like crazy diamond as a piece of prog pop, and I dont really like Zeppelin, but Kashmir is their finest hour.
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Points: 3563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2012 at 12:08
There's music that you can compare and there's music you can't compare - these two are in the second category.
"We've got to get in to get out"
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2012 at 17:52
^ You can't compare in general. I agree. But if you take in account one factor or more, the one(s) that is/are most important to you ... .

Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 30 2012 at 17:52
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2012 at 19:20
Kashmir bores me. I agree with Henry that I stop paying attention after a few minutes. Shine On, however, always blows me away.
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jude111 View Drop Down
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Points: 1741 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2012 at 19:38
Originally posted by Guzzman Guzzman wrote:

There's music that you can compare and there's music you can't compare - these two are in the second category.
One of the most popular poll series lately has been, "The Best Prog Song of ..." However, "Kashmir" and other "prog related" music is left out of the poll. "Shine On" was voted as best song of 1975, "Kashmir" was left out of the poll, even though it was also from 1975. If we can vote between, say, Pink Floyd and Magma, then I think we can vote between Floyd and Zep.
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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 02:44
^ Well, here is the cookie: the Zeps are a prog-related band. I don't think tamijo would consider how prog this track or that track sounds. I think it's artist-genre oriented.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 01 2012 at 02:45
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jude111 View Drop Down
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Points: 1741 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 02:55
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Well, here is the cookie: the Zeps are a prog-related band. I don't think tamijo would consider how prog this or that sounds.
Again, this is all humanly constructed by a few PA-ers, and by no means "scientific" or whatever. Somehow - and perhaps you can explain this one - Led Zeppelin are "prog related," while Robert Plant is "crossover prog." If he crossed over, then he - like Peter Gabriel - must have started out on the other side? Anyway, none of these labels mean anything to me. There is nothing that Peter Gabriel did after leaving Genesis that I would consider "prog," and yet, he's there competing in these polls, while what I consider to be prog tunes, such as "Stairway to Heaven," "Kashmir," "(Don't Fear) The Reaper," plenty of jazz fusion tunes, etc., are absent. As is Vangelis's BLADE RUNNER from the 1982 poll. I love the idea of the poll, and it's sparked a lot of dialogue and interest, so by all means it should continue. Perhaps one day someone here can try it again, and learn from the mistakes. As anyone who has ever studied genre knows, one of the definitions of genre is that a text is always pushing against its own boundaries and crossing them. The borders are fluid and not cast in iron.
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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 03:15
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

As is Vangelis's BLADE RUNNER from the 1982 poll.

Doh! S#$t, how could I forget it? Maybe I thought it wasn't quite prog? ... Uh, screw it.

But, like I said, those are tamijo's criteria, and it's his poll, none of which are mine.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 01 2012 at 03:17
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jude111 View Drop Down
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Points: 1741 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 04:25
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

As is Vangelis's BLADE RUNNER from the 1982 poll.

Doh! S#$t, how could I forget it? Maybe I thought it wasn't quite prog? ... Uh, screw it.

But, like I said, those are tamijo's criteria, and it's his poll, none of which are mine.
Haha. I *love* Blade Runner. Sorry, Tamijo, if you are reading this, all I do is criticize, - honestly, it's a cool poll, and a great idea :-)
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Points: 125 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 03:56
Shine on by a mile
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Points: 254 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2012 at 01:01
Crazy Diamond is a nice pop song (and I do like it), but Kashmir is a really clever piece of work.
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Glucose View Drop Down
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Points: 160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2012 at 13:50
Both but Shine on is about Syd and it gives a message to this song.
Under the rocks and stones,
there is water underground
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