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do you like the "dark side" of the discography?

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Anaon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Anaon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: do you like the "dark side" of the discography?
    Posted: March 21 2013 at 15:52
I admit I love Gensis "We Can't Dance" album, this is far from the classic era but it's a great progressive pop album imho Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HarbouringTheSoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2013 at 08:34
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul

Originally posted by Astral Traveller

I realize that Trepass is generally well received here, but the critic seem to hate it, and the band themselves try to ignore it completely. Stagnation is one of my favorite songs by them, and have dedicated a lot of time to finding multiple bootleg versions of it as unlike most of their songs, the lyrics change from version to version and each one is more profound than the last.

Don't the critics hate every single Genesis album?
 
So what? ... Since when are "critics" the "RULE" as to what is good or bad?

Since never, and neither did I say so.

Regarding the actual topic at hand, there aren't many artists whose "dark side" I'm familiar with. There are always so many supposedly great albums to check out that it leaves little time for those that most people seem to hate anyway. But of course, some artists fascinate me so much that I want to go beyond the commonly accepted "classics" and check out their other material. And though I find myself agreeing with the naysayers most of the time when it comes to an artist's dark side, there are exceptions. Among the notables: Outside and Reality by David Bowie; Duke, Abacab and Genesis by Genesis; Broadsword and the Beast by Jethro Tull.




Edited by HarbouringTheSoul - March 15 2013 at 09:23
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2013 at 03:14
Originally posted by JocBT

I really like Yes' The Ladder and Magnification I think is in their top 5 albums (forgetting about Time is Time and Don't Go of course) 


Clap   same here Wink


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - March 15 2013 at 03:14
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JocBT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2013 at 23:45
I really like Yes' The Ladder and Magnification I think is in their top 5 albums (forgetting about Time is Time and Don't Go of course) 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2013 at 16:35
Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul

Originally posted by Astral Traveller

I realize that Trepass is generally well received here, but the critic seem to hate it, and the band themselves try to ignore it completely. Stagnation is one of my favorite songs by them, and have dedicated a lot of time to finding multiple bootleg versions of it as unlike most of their songs, the lyrics change from version to version and each one is more profound than the last.

Don't the critics hate every single Genesis album?
 
So what? ... Since when are "critics" the "RULE" as to what is good or bad? Further more, the critics are never remembered in history ... except maybe Salieri,. but he came over to this side for a while!
 
Let's see ... we can add Ravel, Debussy, Stravinsky, Mahler, Tchaikovsky (but a rich woman liked him!) ... you want more? ... where "fans" and "classicos" and "idiots" and "morons" (want more?) decided they did not like the music and thought it was bad ... ooohhhh by the way, guess who is remembered in the history of music?
 
So, tell me, you gonna suck it up to the critics? They really knnnnnnooooo music, I bet!  Including me! ... you have to learn and live by yourself, not anyone else's ideas or thoughts!
 
G'night! Sleep tight! Dream and enjoy the music! And forget the critic!
 
(Now you know why I do not consider myself a "critic" ... because I am a person with feelings, not a critic!


Edited by moshkito - March 03 2013 at 16:42
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HarbouringTheSoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2013 at 00:09
Originally posted by Astral Traveller

I realize that Trepass is generally well received here, but the critic seem to hate it, and the band themselves try to ignore it completely. Stagnation is one of my favorite songs by them, and have dedicated a lot of time to finding multiple bootleg versions of it as unlike most of their songs, the lyrics change from version to version and each one is more profound than the last.

Don't the critics hate every single Genesis album?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2013 at 20:15
Originally posted by Astral Traveller

I actually like Genesis's Trespass and FGTR albums, though I can't stand Abacab or Calling all Stations.
Pink Floyd's Final Cut is just weak for me, my friend tries to convince me that MLOR and The Division Bell are greater than Meddle and Wish You Were Here, but I can't see it. I personally love the late 80s rush like Grace Under Pressure and some of Hold Your Fire. I can't stand post-Tormato Yes up until Fly From Here. Kansas's Audio Visions and up is good but lacking, and I can't get into the post-Fish Marillon or Post-Neal Spock's Beard


I don't think Grace Under Pressure and Hold Your Fire are the "dark side" of their discography Stern Smile
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"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Astral Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2013 at 08:57
I realize that Trepass is generally well received here, but the critic seem to hate it, and the band themselves try to ignore it completely. Stagnation is one of my favorite songs by them, and have dedicated a lot of time to finding multiple bootleg versions of it as unlike most of their songs, the lyrics change from version to version and each one is more profound than the last.

A mistake is always forgivable, rarely excusable and always unacceptable. -Robert Fripp
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2013 at 08:38
Originally posted by Astral Traveller

I actually like Genesis's Trespass and FGTR albums, though I can't stand Abacab or Calling all Stations.
Pink Floyd's Final Cut is just weak for me, my friend tries to convince me that MLOR and The Division Bell are greater than Meddle and Wish You Were Here, but I can't see it. I personally love the late 80s rush like Grace Under Pressure and some of Hold Your Fire. I can't stand post-Tormato Yes up until Fly From Here. Kansas's Audio Visions and up is good but lacking, and I can't get into the post-Fish Marillon or Post-Neal Spock's Beard
 
Trespass is rarely thought of in these circles as a low point in Genesis' career.  Quite the contrary, it is generally well-liked. 
 
Hmmm.  I love Abacab, like Calling All Stations and the Final Cut.  Post-Tormato Yes was definitely hit or miss, but there were some great ones (Drama, 90125, Talk, Keys To Ascension) and some real duds (Open Your Eyes). Do like 80's Rush a lot, except for Hold Your Fire (it's too soft rock for me).  And post-Fish Marillion has done some amazing stuff.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Astral Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2013 at 08:28
I actually like Genesis's Trespass and FGTR albums, though I can't stand Abacab or Calling all Stations.
Pink Floyd's Final Cut is just weak for me, my friend tries to convince me that MLOR and The Division Bell are greater than Meddle and Wish You Were Here, but I can't see it. I personally love the late 80s rush like Grace Under Pressure and some of Hold Your Fire. I can't stand post-Tormato Yes up until Fly From Here. Kansas's Audio Visions and up is good but lacking, and I can't get into the post-Fish Marillon or Post-Neal Spock's Beard

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2013 at 16:08
Originally posted by The Doctor

I thought Hold On My Heart was Sleepy


Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2013 at 09:54
I thought Hold On My Heart was Sleepy
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 23:35
Originally posted by The Doctor

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Originally posted by The Doctor

Had the album been shorter and gone something like this, it could have been a good album:
1.  No Son of Mine
2.  Jesus He Knows Me
3.  Driving the Last Spike
4.  Dreaming While You Sleep
5.  On the Shoreline
6.  Living Forever
7.  Fading Lights


I love Genesis but  Disapprove


Fair enough.  Not my favorite song either, but was trying to come up with at least 7 songs out of the 14 recorded during the sessions (at least enough to make a 45 minute album).  I ran out of songs.  Although, I'm not that offended by the song I Can't Dance, so perhaps that could replace Living Forever. 


You could have put Hold On My Heart
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Ignorance is strength.”
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 22:34
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Originally posted by The Doctor

Had the album been shorter and gone something like this, it could have been a good album:
1.  No Son of Mine
2.  Jesus He Knows Me
3.  Driving the Last Spike
4.  Dreaming While You Sleep
5.  On the Shoreline
6.  Living Forever
7.  Fading Lights


I love Genesis but  Disapprove


Fair enough.  Not my favorite song either, but was trying to come up with at least 7 songs out of the 14 recorded during the sessions (at least enough to make a 45 minute album).  I ran out of songs.  Although, I'm not that offended by the song I Can't Dance, so perhaps that could replace Living Forever. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 21:51
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by M27Barney

...
Genesis are not a good example here , Genesis trio of Banks, Rutherford and Gabriel went to a public school and lived in fookin mansions with swimming pools (and with mile long drives....)....since when did they struggle to buy food???
 
It doesn't matter ... even Pink Floyd got lucky ... and so did many others ... so not having to work as hard, or studying a bit more, or working to make it more important ... was no longer an issue ... you didn't need the money anymore!
 
Reminds me of Robert Fripp having to say ... that doing King Crimson ... helps pay the bills! ... the sad side being that it eats away at him like a cancer ... and only made him more and more bitter and took him further away from us ... because we are so damn greedy and such an incredible group of vampires that would rather suck a life into death than we would in appreciating a person, and his complete list of works!
 
I guess that Beethoven's Bagatelles, don't count as music, and is the dark side of his discography! ... and Mozart had more bagatelles than anyone else!

I've never considered Genesis sellouts just for making pop albums anyway.  They always had a bit of pop music in their approach and once they lost Gabriel and Hackett, they ran out of options.  On the other hand, other bands like Renaissance did admit to believing they needed to emulate the commercial success of a hit single or album (in this case Northern Lights) and that's what I call selling out.  And I don't condemn that choice either because it's not for me to, but that would mean that the bands were not true to themselves which tends to reflect on their work (and could be legitimately classified as the dark side of their discography).  In KC's case, it's more about the name King Crimson than anything else.  It doesn't even matter if anybody other than Fripp continues in the lineup and whether the work bears any resemblance to what they did before.  I could understand that he would resent having to work more in the collaborative set up of a band than pursue a solo career but I am not sure he was under pressure to make pop music at any point of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 06:33
Of the late/early Floyd - Dark side.... is definately the worst album , WYWH and Animals and meddle are all FAR superior in my opinion.....Genesis went nowhere after W&W just as Rush went nowhere after MP......But I suppose youre either with me on this or agin me.....
If music be the food of love......play on
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Moogtron III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 04:06
I like "Hold On My Heart". One of my fave songs on the album.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 03:57
Originally posted by The Doctor

Had the album been shorter and gone something like this, it could have been a good album:
1.  No Son of Mine
2.  Jesus He Knows Me
3.  Driving the Last Spike
4.  Dreaming While You Sleep
5.  On the Shoreline
6.  Living Forever
7.  Fading Lights


I love Genesis but  Disapprove
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four



"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 08:46
Originally posted by M27Barney

...
Genesis are not a good example here , Genesis trio of Banks, Rutherford and Gabriel went to a public school and lived in fookin mansions with swimming pools (and with mile long drives....)....since when did they struggle to buy food???
 
It doesn't matter ... even Pink Floyd got lucky ... and so did many others ... so not having to work as hard, or studying a bit more, or working to make it more important ... was no longer an issue ... you didn't need the money anymore!
 
Reminds me of Robert Fripp having to say ... that doing King Crimson ... helps pay the bills! ... the sad side being that it eats away at him like a cancer ... and only made him more and more bitter and took him further away from us ... because we are so damn greedy and such an incredible group of vampires that would rather suck a life into death than we would in appreciating a person, and his complete list of works!
 
I guess that Beethoven's Bagatelles, don't count as music, and is the dark side of his discography! ... and Mozart had more bagatelles than anyone else!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2013 at 06:35
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by rogerthat

... discography in some cases and to call any attempts to characterize it as censorship would be paranoid.   Let's face it, there are artists who sold out or who simply ran out of creative juice for a phase...nothing disrespectful about identifying those.   
...
 
It wasn't meant that way ... the fact is that we do not feel that a lot of this music will have any affect on the history of music at all ... in fact, including all these posts, we do not believe it at all, except for one or two goons!
 
I, for one, believe, that all the "electric" stuff, IS the history of music for the 2nd half of the 20th Century and at least the first half of the 21st  Century ... it IS ... just about ALL the music that people are seeing these days ... with an occasional "unplugged" somewhere ... but look at the "classic music concerts" in most campus' these days ... not even selling out and only a handful of those folks can you even name today! ... think about it!  That will have a massive influence in the history of music, even if a section is considered "popular music", or "popular idioms" ... but if that happens, the likes of "progressive" music loses out ... because some of the compositional values, of a lot of the music we love is considerably better developed musically, that a vast majority of classical music of the last 1000 years!
 
Either that, or we are real slaves to avertising and not intelligent enough to hear anything else except the grub that we are fed!
 
That is NOT very "progressive" at all, and you might want to check out the theme and the ideas behind the words in just about "everything" that we consider "progressive" at the start, and how much we love them!
 
I would never blame Genesis for all of a sudden selling a million albums, when they struggled for 6 or 7 years to buy food, a house for their children or even a decent meal! I would have said ... "it's about time!".
Genesis are not a good example here , Genesis trio of Banks, Rutherford and Gabriel went to a public school and lived in fookin mansions with swimming pools (and with mile long drives....)....since when did they struggle to buy food???
If music be the food of love......play on
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