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moshkito 
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 Topic: do you like the "dark side" of the discography?
Posted: August 31 2013 at 13:01 |
 The.Crimson.King wrote:
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It's funny but I don't really consider Crimson as having a "dark side" to their discography. Each decade brought a different approach and different personnel that could be considered a different band. I've stated in earlier posts that I wish the 80's entity would've gone with their original plan and called the band Discipline because the approach was such a radical departure from the 70's entity. Further, the 90's version might as well have named themselves, "D'Double T'Trio" or something because, once again, it was a radically different approach that brought in new players.
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Sadly, in the early days, there were people that thought that "Fripp and Eno" (the first one) were total garbage, and in this sense, Robert Fripp had another side, that he could not use in the King Crimson thing, which obviously was also satisfying for himself, and a lot less strenuous on the stage for himself!
I, personally, did not think that KC was that great after the first 5 to 7 years or so. Many folks would disagree, but I thought there was a certain detachment, that broke away from the explosions, and guitar bombs, that he was using so much in the early days ... it became ... sort of a rhythm guitar for folks that were not as advanced musically, or folks that did not have the ability to experiment and do something else ... other than the same sound, or concept or music design for a song!
So, if there is a dark side, it would be after 10 years, for me, but I do not like to discredit any artist for his/her work. It is all valid and worth while, but I might not be a buyer of that stuff, since there is/was so much else to get. There was no way I was not going to spend some money on the new Peter Hammill 25 years ago, instead of a new KC.
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Xonty
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Posted: August 30 2013 at 15:33 |
I do like some bands grey areas of discography (some late Yes albums) but definitely not everything, for example I never got into Genesis and ELP's very much. Still listen to some of them now and then but I usually don't own many personally 
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progbethyname
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Posted: August 01 2013 at 14:16 |
CKnoxW wrote:
^ Well progbethyname I can only disagree with your Pink Floyd opinion. The Final Cut was a terrific album lyrically and musically. The excellent use of satire and emotion Waters put into it surpass the more superficial quality AMLOR had. Gilmour Floyd was good, but he's a second rate lyricist compared to Waters.You can't deny that ;)
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In some cases I can agree with you, but I don't agree with you where you say that AMLOR has superficial qualities to it...well maybe a little bit on Dogs of War, but AMLOR has every bit of the same emotion and heart felt subject matter about the post traumatic cases of War, as The Final Cut. Its just my opinion though. :)
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CKnoxW
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Posted: August 01 2013 at 12:48 |
progbethyname wrote:
^ well Surrealist I can only disagree with on your Rush opinion. Many great albums have come after Signals. Actually, Grace Under Pressure was a terrific album. Neil's drumming is out of this world on 'Between The Wheels.'
You can't deny that. ;) |
On the other hand, I can support this 100%
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CKnoxW
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Posted: August 01 2013 at 12:46 |
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^ Well progbethyname I can only disagree with your Pink Floyd opinion. The Final Cut was a terrific album lyrically and musically. The excellent use of satire and emotion Waters put into it surpass the more superficial quality AMLOR had. Gilmour Floyd was good, but he's a second rate lyricist compared to Waters.
You can't deny that ;)
Edited by CKnoxW - August 01 2013 at 12:47
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progbethyname
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Posted: August 01 2013 at 01:15 |
The.Crimson.King wrote:
Since the focus of the thread seems to be Genesis...I consider the dark side to begin when Hackett left, so as far as that goes...I really like most of ATTWT (though I despise 'Say it's alright Joe' and 'Follow you...'), the opening 3 songs of Duke (but could take or leave the rest), some of Abacab (the title track, Dodo/Lurker, Another Record, and what I consider the final truly great Genesis song, Me and Sarah Jane) and a bit of Genesis (the Home by the Sea suite and I must admit I think Illegal Alien's funny). I've never heard any of the albums after and have no plans to change that  |
DUKE was and still is quite a fantastic album to me. After that, Phil's Pop machine hit an all time high. I have, still to this day, mixed feelings about that especially about the fuction and form of it all. :)
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progbethyname
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Posted: August 01 2013 at 01:12 |
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^ well Surrealist I can only disagree with on your Rush opinion. Many great albums have come after Signals. Actually, Grace Under Pressure was a terrific album. Neil's drumming is out of this world on 'Between The Wheels.'
You can't deny that. ;)
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Surrealist
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Posted: August 01 2013 at 00:43 |
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Oh..
and "The Missing Piece" or "Giant for a Day?"
What the hell was that?
In through the out door?
That was a nightmare for Zep fans.
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Surrealist
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Posted: August 01 2013 at 00:40 |
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All the great Prog bands started making crap albums. Some recovered a bit.. but I don't see any of the classic Prog bands as continuing upward from where they were.
Yes was over for me after Drama.
Tull's "A" was the end
Genesis ended when Hackett left.
Camel ended with "I can see your house from here"
Rush ended with "Signals"
ELP ended on a beach somewhere
Mahavishnu ended with "Inner Worlds"
Floyd last great album was "Animals"
VDGG ended at" Pawn Hearts"
I did find King Crimson's 80's trio of albums to be very progressive using 80's sounds.
I also think they continued to experiment and push new boundaries through "Construction of Light"
and even "Eyes Wide Open"
Hackett had a hiccup with a couple weak efforts "Cured" and "Highly Strung" which were awful.. but bounced back
and all his releases now are excellent.
Ultimately once technology replaced musicianship, digital editing instead of practicing, ones and zeros instead of analog tape... the great music ended.
I always looked to Prog for inspiration.. not entertainment.
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The.Crimson.King
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Posted: July 31 2013 at 23:25 |
Since the focus of the thread seems to be Genesis...I consider the dark side to begin when Hackett left, so as far as that goes...I really like most of ATTWT (though I despise 'Say it's alright Joe' and 'Follow you...'), the opening 3 songs of Duke (but could take or leave the rest), some of Abacab (the title track, Dodo/Lurker, Another Record, and what I consider the final truly great Genesis song, Me and Sarah Jane) and a bit of Genesis (the Home by the Sea suite and I must admit I think Illegal Alien's funny). I've never heard any of the albums after and have no plans to change that
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progbethyname
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Posted: July 29 2013 at 23:50 |
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Well I should make this one clear about Ozric Tentacles Paper monkeys, where by I love the album even though it has not been very well received here on PA. It's a great album to my ears.
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Big Ears
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Posted: July 29 2013 at 00:58 |
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Has anyone written a tracklist that combines The Wall and The Final Cut (a bit like those for Lifehouse)?
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Neo-Romantic
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 14:38 |
The.Crimson.King wrote:
Neo-Romantic wrote:
The only bands I can honestly say I like even the "dark sides" of their discographies are Rush and King Crimson. They never seemed to stagnate or lost their creativity. Their writing just changed. Maybe not for the better overall, but there are still some gems to be found. Vapor Trails, Power Windows, and The Power to Believe are excellent albums in my book, and they would definitely be missed from my collection if I never heard them again.
I'll admit though that the only reason I list those two groups is because they're also the ones whose "dark sides of the discography" I'd consider myself comfortably familiar with. A lot of my favorite groups are recent additions thanks to discovering this site not too terribly long ago, so I'm still not too familiar with a lot of groups' entire catalogs just yet. |
It's funny but I don't really consider Crimson as having a "dark side" to their discography. Each decade brought a different approach and different personnel that could be considered a different band. I've stated in earlier posts that I wish the 80's entity would've gone with their original plan and called the band Discipline because the approach was such a radical departure from the 70's entity. Further, the 90's version might as well have named themselves, "D'Double T'Trio" or something because, once again, it was a radically different approach that brought in new players.
Or maybe I'm just too much of a Crimso fan boy to admit they have a 'dark side' to the discog |
Haha nothing wrong with that viewpoint whatsoever Dark side is just a relative term for me (albeit not a very endearing one) as there are just times I prefer more. I never really cared for their 80s efforts as a whole, and regard the LTIA - Red lineup as one of the best prog ensembles to ever exist. It's all a matter of comparisons to me, especially since I enjoy The Power to Believe, an album from outside their "peak", as better than other groups' entire discographies.
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progbethyname
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 11:46 |
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^ actually, sadly all my favourite bands have some 'dark sides' or blemishes in their discographies except Saviour Machine and OSI. no faults their, but their discographies are quite small, 5 and 4 respectively.
It just happens. It's rare to like or love absolutely everything an Artist has done.
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The.Crimson.King
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 11:02 |
Neo-Romantic wrote:
The only bands I can honestly say I like even the "dark sides" of their discographies are Rush and King Crimson. They never seemed to stagnate or lost their creativity. Their writing just changed. Maybe not for the better overall, but there are still some gems to be found. Vapor Trails, Power Windows, and The Power to Believe are excellent albums in my book, and they would definitely be missed from my collection if I never heard them again.
I'll admit though that the only reason I list those two groups is because they're also the ones whose "dark sides of the discography" I'd consider myself comfortably familiar with. A lot of my favorite groups are recent additions thanks to discovering this site not too terribly long ago, so I'm still not too familiar with a lot of groups' entire catalogs just yet. |
It's funny but I don't really consider Crimson as having a "dark side" to their discography. Each decade brought a different approach and different personnel that could be considered a different band. I've stated in earlier posts that I wish the 80's entity would've gone with their original plan and called the band Discipline because the approach was such a radical departure from the 70's entity. Further, the 90's version might as well have named themselves, "D'Double T'Trio" or something because, once again, it was a radically different approach that brought in new players.
Or maybe I'm just too much of a Crimso fan boy to admit they have a 'dark side' to the discog
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Neo-Romantic
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 00:42 |
The only bands I can honestly say I like even the "dark sides" of their discographies are Rush and King Crimson. They never seemed to stagnate or lost their creativity. Their writing just changed. Maybe not for the better overall, but there are still some gems to be found. Vapor Trails, Power Windows, and The Power to Believe are excellent albums in my book, and they would definitely be missed from my collection if I never heard them again.
I'll admit though that the only reason I list those two groups is because they're also the ones whose "dark sides of the discography" I'd consider myself comfortably familiar with. A lot of my favorite groups are recent additions thanks to discovering this site not too terribly long ago, so I'm still not too familiar with a lot of groups' entire catalogs just yet.
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progbethyname
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Posted: July 25 2013 at 23:45 |
The Dark side.. I guess Genesis is easily the hottest topic on this thread, but I have to follow suit with Invisible Touch and ABACAB being so called, dark spots on their discography. I find nothing wrong with those 2 albums, but it Was quite a shocker how different those albums really were compared to the 'classic era' of their music. We can't dance is ok, but I do not favour it. RUSH-- I love Hold Your Fire and Presto. Pink Floyd--A Momentary Lapse of Reason. I can't for the life me figure out why so many have a real 'hate on' for this album. The final Cut has absolutely nothing on this album, yet some think it is a better album? That goes way over my head. AMLOR is a great album with just a couple of blemishes on it where as The Final Cut is a bloody world war 2 bandage soaked in sh*t. Lol. Sorry that is just how I feel. Dream Theater-- I happen to really like, not love SYSTEMATIC CHAOS. Like AMLOR it has it's small dark patches on it, but otherwise it is a good album.
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Ambient Hurricanes
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Posted: July 25 2013 at 23:14 |
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As HtS mentioned, there are so many "classic" albums to explore that I haven't had much time to listen to "the dark side." However...
I like everything by Rush. Everything. Overall, the 80's were probably better than the 70's. PW and MP were released in 80 and 81, and two other Rush albums I also consider masterpieces, Grace Under Pressure and Presto, also come from that decade. They had some weaker material in the 90's but everything they've released has been solid, imo.
I love Tormato. Don't understand how it can have such a bad rating here, it sounds like classic Yes to me, just with some shorter songs and generally a "poppier" feel. But it has the same great compositions and musicianship. "Circus of Heaven" is as cheesy as it gets but otherwise I think it's a great album. I also think that 90125 is very good, although unfortunately not even close to the 70's albums.
I haven't heard any Genesis albums after Abacab, but I absolutely love everything up through Duke; ATTWT is one of my favorites and I think it's a master showcase of pop/rock songwriting. Duke just kicks ass (especially the more progressive tracks like Behind the Lines and Duke's Travels). I don't think Abacab is quite as good but it's still a solid album; I especially love "Man on the Corner", a very simple song but builds beautifully and has a great aura to it, Phil's vocals are excellent.
I'm less familiar with VdGG's catalog but I think their most recent album, Alt, is excellent and very impressive despite the abysmal ratings it has garnered here. The fact that three musicians in their 60s are still willing to push their boundaries and come up with crazy stuff like that speaks volumes about their integrity and work ethic. I wish they had thrown vocals on some of the tracks so I could get to hear PH's voice but you can't have it all...
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The.Crimson.King
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Posted: July 25 2013 at 22:57 |
I do have a soft spot for some of the classic 70's prog bands "dark sides"...Love Beach (just Memoirs...)...The Final Cut (actually my fave PF album)...Abacab (I love Me and Sarah Jane)...And Then There Were Three (everything except 'Say it's allright Joe' and 'Follow...')...Drama...The Missing Piece...there's some good stuff to be found there. After Rush released Signals they pretty much lost me as I only found a couple songs I liked on each of the next few albums...stopped following Camel after Rain Dances...
Nowadays, I don't really spend any time mining the dark side of these bands...there's too much great obscure 70's prog I haven't heard yet...
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Swedish Prog Mafia
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Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:28 |
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tormato!
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
do you like the "dark side" of the discography?
