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The Wall - Portland, Oregon 05/22/2012

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    Posted: May 23 2012 at 13:16

Roger Waters' The Wall Portland Or 05/22/2012

For someone that saw the original tour in Los Angeles, in the days that 500 people got busted OUTSIDE the building on the first show for smoking joints BEFORE, they entered the Forum, this time, some 30+ years later, I can tell you that this group of people are already comfortably numb and that the excitement and appreciation for something that had never been seen in rock music before ... wasn't there.

When we first saw this, no one, not a single band, or rock anything, had ever done light shows that were multimedia presentations that really gave your head a jolt and a severe headache if you tried to keep up. The advent of the thirty-some shows that Pink Floyd did then, were difficult for the band, and basically, they rarely played together again after the tour, except for one or two special occasions.

Seeing it today ... is far out, neat, exciting, totally awesome ... there are no adjectives that can be used to make it any better, but ... as I sat there ... and looked at 32 or 33 years of media bs and mis-representation and what not, I realized one thing that I am not sure is intended, and this show did not address at all. The media has rendered a show like this redundant, repetitive, and sometimes ... sad. Terribly sad ... most audience members in America can not relate to war losses much, unless they had members that died in Iraq, or recent Middle East affairs, and what not, meaning that for the most part ... America Idol is more important on this night of this show!

Now, do not, under any condition, think that this is a knock on the audience, and the validity of the show today. It's still valid and highly volatile in its finger pointing and accusations, but in the end, the older version came at a time when we still remember fighting against many things 10 years later, and today ... no one fights for anything, except complacency, or send a vote to American Idol, or go read about Brangelina's latest adventure.

The great news? ... was looking at the audience, and seeing so many young faces ... that were as young, or younger than I was when I first saw this ... and that is a very good feeling.

The visualization of this show is fantastic, and today, is vastly superior to the earlier version. In the old version you pretty much had two screens, the big round screen that was patent Pink Floyd, and then the wall in front of the stage. The material shown in those days was not the same continuous thing that today's was. This made the show more complete in my estimation, today, than it did years ago, when you still ahd to depend on your ability to imagine some parts of the show and what it was saying and doing ... today, everything is on the wall, and you can read it, see it, and react to it. Is all the more recent war information, more important today, than it was THEN, when it had a small amount of information, mostly about World War 2, even though there were references to VietNam, including in film on the wall, that was well known at the time. In those days, the reference to the war, was almost largely symbolic, and a memory of 10 years earlier, when some of us got our heads banged up ... just for marching with Dr. Martin Luther King!

Today, I think that Roger would like to ensure that many of us embark in a more socio-political path to understanding some of the things going on. There really is nothing like a rock band and the music business to show you more stealing, than Wall Street. There is nothing like a rock band, to show you more advertising and articles that are off kilter and have nothing to do with the person at all. There is nothing like the inane interviews asking about something that doesn't exist as a way to make the conversation sound cool and more important, and it reaching levels of absurdity that is more ridiculous and stupid, than it is intelligent or coherent, for that matter. And this is very clear in the area of "progressive", when some of the fans and interviewers are more interested in their definition of "progressive" than they are in the artist and what he/she has to say and wants to do -- which in the end, none of these reviewers and interviewers want to hear about, because it renders their work ... not important.

In the end, if you did not have a chance to see this, there is one thing that you missed ... this is not a rock show. This is not a concert. This is not anything that you have ever seen, or experienced. This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you missed, for whatever reason, you will never see it again, or have the chance to appreciate it and what the whole experience was about. In your lifetimes, you might have a chance to see one "monster" in entertainment, or whatever, and if you pass on that chance, you will never have another one. "The Wall" is just such an event. However, a warning here is important ... the majority of rock concerts after this will look like, sound like, and feel like ... why are you kissing up to that star ... because most of it is vain, silly, and is mostly just playing with your emotions. This is more than that. And someday, you will understand that, and a lot of music will fall off your iPod as ... boring. Who knows, it might even be Pink Floyd ... and then you can go worship the very folks that this piece is attacking that are the problem, not the solution.

The technology during this show, TODAY, is magnificent, totally insane, and so clean ... the clarity of the whole thing is insane, and unlike the old days, when you could hear the hiss in the speakers (there is an advantage to digital sound!), this time, it was all so clear and clean ... a solid reminder of what Pink Floyd used to do with their Quadraphonic sound, that used to go all around. In one example, though, where the old show was better, in those days, one of the big things in the "quadraphonic" idea was to make sure the sound was separated and when you hear the girl walk in the room and "wow look at all those guitars ... " ... it would start on one speaker and end on the other side of the building. Today, your "movie" was on the screen and she walked in from this side, and ended on the other, and the sound ... remained the same ... we will ahve to admonish Roger for that oversight, I guess! The movement of the sounds, gave an imagined view of the proceedings to your mind ... but the movie/screen in front of you feeds you the "story" and you don't need to hear it anymore go around the stadium ... the story is no longer 360 degrees ... the story is now flat ... on a wall!

The whole of the animation is far superior, again, because now, you can do things that were not quite visible or possible before. For example, when the Scarfe's cartoons first start with the big flower, for several minutes there is a line that keeps moving and growing towards the center. It eventually moves "up" and becomes the stems of the flowers in the cartoon ... and a magnificent use of the continuity of the cartoons, as was visible earlier with the flowing water that was also running in the part of the wall that was already erected.

The band, musicians? ... I think it was better than yesterday. There was a relaxed feeling in this show that was much more enjoyable than the feeling in Los Angeles that the band had to hurry up and make sure they were in sync with the movie or the visuals ... whereas today, things can get worked out much easier and just about all musicians used would probably learned it as their first song instead of All Saints Go Marching In, or some other silly jingle to teach you any ABC of music! Even in the old bootlegs from those days, you can see that there is a certain pace that has to be maintained, and today's version looked like they could slow down, pace, rest and then kick which is likely to be easier for all musicians at work. Not a whole lot can be said here, except that this is as close or as near to the original as you can imagine, and you did not miss much at all if you compare ot to the album ... but the show itself, is worth the price of admission ... don't think that Pavarotti was not expensive either, or a Nureyev, or a Barishnikov ... and they rarely failed you!

And this show didn't either!



Edited by moshkito - May 24 2012 at 07:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evolver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2012 at 14:00
Nice.
 
My son & his girlfriend are going to the Fenway Park show on July 1st. 
I'm sure they will love it.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2012 at 18:07
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Nice.
 
My son & his girlfriend are going to the Fenway Park show on July 1st. 
I'm sure they will love it.
 
Thanks ... it was not an easy review to put together. I liked the original, and have heard several bootlegs from various shows and such ... and in the end, the powow of the experience then, was huge for older folks like us ... I got my head banged up in Chicago by a corrupt police and government. I had a friend gunned down by that same police, that was going out with a lady I was playing a couple of bridge tournaments with. Sly and the Family Stone did not show up for a concert in Chicago, and we got beaten up by these same cops!
 
There is a lot that goes into this, and the brick thing was really important, although I am not sure that many can combine these events as much as I have. Pink Floyd, right from the start, was a form of revolution from all this stuff, and ugliness. It was one of the main thrusts in ALL progressive music ... listen to the lyrics in KC's1st ... and then hear "Epitath" ... it was about "VietNam" and the IRA thing ... both of which were more involved and shown in the original show, which today's show had to redo to be able to maintain its sense of value and dignity. And what is Roger singing and crying about? ... that tomorrow I'll be crying ...
 
It was good ... I feel happy I got to see it. I just hope that this review and its perspective helps people understand the progressive thing a lot better. It's too easy for you and I to say this is important ... and it all get lost by people that do not have the sense of responsibility or understanding ... and go back to the top ten mentality ... and now you know why I fight that mentality so hard ... it's a meat grind! Nothing else!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2012 at 19:21
Hey, it's great you got around to seeing this show again, after over 30 years. I remember you posting that you didn't think there was a reason to see this show again. And it's great you enjoyed it all over again. I myself was just a tiny bit busy being born when the album was originally released. However, I got to see the new show last year, and you just made me regret that I passed the oportunity to see it again this year that it came again to Mexico. Indeed, it was a one in a life-time show, perhaps the biggest show I'll get to see. Whomever else will have the gut to make such a big show about such an artistic music. I can think about Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc (or whichever succesors they may have) wanting to spend such money on a show... but in the end the show will mean nothing. Music indutry doesn't seem interested in spending so much money on intelligent music anymore (though, thank god, there are still many artists willing to do it, they just don't get the same support they used to have). We need the new 70's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2012 at 19:29
Oh yeah, and it was great to read a review of the new show by someone who saw the original show, thanks a lot. I still wish I had gotten the chance to se it with Pink Floyd... but well, that was quiet impossible for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2012 at 07:28

A few more reactions on my review:

Nice bit of writing Pedro.  Interesting insights on the 30 year circle you have witnessed with this particular work. It seems, like any great work, it may have had more context in its own time but time does not erase the basic truths of art. Glad to hear that some of the younger generation was present and that it wasn’t a lot of old fogies on a nostalgia trip. Thanks for sharing
David
  
Thank you for articulating this experience that only a few will ever witness. we few, we happy few, we band of brothers. Danny

(David is a guitarist, and has played in many bands, and his hero is Pete Townsend. Both work at the same company as I.)

... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2012 at 07:34
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Oh yeah, and it was great to read a review of the new show by someone who saw the original show, thanks a lot. I still wish I had gotten the chance to se it with Pink Floyd... but well, that was quiet impossible for me.
 
Some purists might not like it ... but I will say that if I had to compare the music and the playing between today and yesterday, I probably would have picked today's show. It was technically cleaner, and more fun to play, than the original that was tied down to a movie and screen order that made it not as enjoyable as this one was. If this had been the earlier material where you actually got to see and hear Richard, Nick, Roger and David play and do their thing, I would have picked the earlier show.
 
I call it wi-fi and hi-fi as opposed to what was there before, which was not as clear or as good ... and one massive thing that we forget ... there was no HISS on the music to bother your inner imagination ... and I for one, like that ... my inner movie and my dreams never has a hiss, either ... hmmmm I wonder if that means something ...


Edited by moshkito - May 24 2012 at 07:36
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2012 at 18:34
Indeed the musicianship was superb on the show I saw, the only thing that wasn't quiet as good were the vocals, on some moments. But then again, that is usually the case with live versions. One thing that I found particularly interesting, and I don't know if it was the same on the show you attended, was that the guitar solo at the end of Comfortably numb was played by David Kilminster with just about the same arrangements that Gilmour himself has played on live albums like Delicate Sound of Thunder and Pulse... which I find odd since he never played the solo that way with Roger Waters... and now Waters himself chose to have it played that way in his own show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2012 at 13:50
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

...
One thing that I found particularly interesting, and I don't know if it was the same on the show you attended, was that the guitar solo at the end of Comfortably numb was played by David Kilminster with just about the same arrangements that Gilmour himself has played on live albums like Delicate Sound of Thunder and Pulse... which I find odd since he never played the solo that way with Roger Waters... and now Waters himself chose to have it played that way in his own show.
 
I'm thinking that it was just fun stuff ... since everyone knows that and Snowy White can play it (and has before) with his eyes closed, upside down and backwards ... I bet! I bet he taught Kilminster all the ins and outs and the tricks to make sure it sounded right!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2012 at 15:35
Hi,
 
(letter to a couple of friends)
 

Maybe it might be the respect I have for this work, or whatever … but it helped me clarify a lot of things on the “history” of the so-called Progressive Music.

 

One of the main things that helped it come alive, was just things like this … like King Crimson’s In The Court of the Crimson King … so clearly displayed with one piece about the maniacs on the loose with noise (guns! Or whatever), or an Epitath for the friends that I/we lost during VietNam or the IRA conflict, or various other places. And a bit later, hearing Greg Lake spill out … “don’t tell me lies … “ with a really heavy accent by the drums … and a year later … YES trying to help people lift their spirits into a more spiritual area, with the end result that the response was like another religion … your god is not my god … and so forth.

 

I’m trying to not be cynical, but yesterday on a post at ProgArchives, I trashed some of those people not only for the rudeness and the lack of respect for people in general … and it had to do with Michael Jackson … and what brought me there was something that was on the first WALL show, but not on the 2nd one … Dr. Martin Luther King. I had marched with him and Father Groppi in Madison … I believed in the whole thing, and knew the plight of many American folks … and all the music I had seen at that time? James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Charley Musselwhite, Mississipi Charles Bevel … the whole audience was black. A few years later Stevie Wonder still had 75% black audience. Michael Jackson? During Thriller and bad? Less than 50% of the audience was Black – at least in California!

 

The hard part was someone trashing him for wanting to be white … instead of black … or some bizarre notion to that effect. For all intents and purposes he was one of the people that was very important to the integration of folks in America … and in the world! There would be many others, like the show I went to see Harry Belafonte and Ella Fitzgerald … and you know how many whites were there in Madison? … 20 maybe including us! In Madison, a very hip place with 50k students at UW!

 

Anyway, sorry about this tirade … progressive music, in many ways was the soul and the spirit of what we all believed in and cared for … that was forgotten … and the media trashed it all, by making us look stupid, stoned, drunk, playing in the mud, and then defiling a national anthem in front of trash!

 

I’m sorry … the media was pathetic, and wrong. There were a lot of us that did things right and cared, and we still fight the good fight for the honor and the beauty that our time also had … as if VietNam was any prettier, or the IRA bombs, or many other realities out there!

 

I sent a copy of this to Roger, and I'm sure he could not comment right now, but I know he sympathizes … but I think he was inspired that younger folks were a major part of the audience in all venues … and I will always cherish the work … I was born in a Fascist country where the two older children had guns pulled on their heads before they even knew what all that meant, so it would shut up the father from writing poetry about lit candles in the dark in the beach, 10 to 15 years before Elton John! Or having the reviews of films about Brando, Dean, Kazan, Tennessee Williams, and Arthur Miller stuff, censored and cut down , because these things were “subversive” and “symbols of the evil freedoms of democracy” … and seeing this kind of mind-washing today, by people feigning ignorance and no one caring to say anything … was a bit more than I could take.

 

I know I should back down … but when your whole life INSIDE is measured by your own integrity, do you have the guts to step down on yourself? What’s the point of living, then?  I keep hearing that one line … forgive them for they know not what they do, and yes, I accept that fully … but does it mean that what I am is not of value?

 

Now you know why TFTO is important to me … even if it pulls off the very zen ending … that sometimes I can't help thinking that it is the pacifist’s way … I’ll go home, shut it all off, do my own prayers, and forget the world. Nous sommes du soleil … Nous sommes du soleil … and in the larger scheme of things we will be … but in the smaller scheme of things … I’m not sure that any of us is happy with not being … ourselves, and believing in ourselves and all the work that we care to do, love and appreciate about life.

 

Yours trully



Edited by moshkito - June 05 2012 at 13:30
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Proggy Pogo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 02:37
I saw Roger Waters' The Wall in Manchester, UK, a year ago pretty much to the day, and it blew me away! I enjoyed reading your in-depth review. The Wall is one of my favourite albums of all time. I am quite envious of you for having seen the original show with Floyd (I was only 9 at the time & no way my parents would have taken me to London to see it!), it must have been a great experience, & I appreciate what you say about sound quality both new & old - I remember having ringing ears for about 3 days after every gig I went to back in th '80s!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 14:27
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

...
One thing that I found particularly interesting, and I don't know if it was the same on the show you attended, was that the guitar solo at the end of Comfortably numb was played by David Kilminster with just about the same arrangements that Gilmour himself has played on live albums like Delicate Sound of Thunder and Pulse... which I find odd since he never played the solo that way with Roger Waters... and now Waters himself chose to have it played that way in his own show.

 

I'm thinking that it was just fun stuff ... since everyone knows that and Snowy White can play it (and has before) with his eyes closed, upside down and backwards ... I bet! I bet he taught Kilminster all the ins and outs and the tricks to make sure it sounded right!


I don't think it is very likely that Snowy White had anything to do with Kilminster playing the solo the way he did, for as far as I know, Gimour never played that extended solo with Snowy. He did it after. I don't know if you get what I'm talking about, but just as Gilmour played the solo on Delicate Sound of Thunder (and some other live albums), when he reached the point at which the solo should have ended, he started playing some bit heavier and more distorted... and I really like how it sounds, the solo isn't complete for me without those extra minutes. But it was never played that way with Waters (not even on Live 8), nor Snowy White, I guess it was all Gilmour, and now Waters or Kilminster chose to add that to the new show. I thought it was interesting, and it was a nice surprise during the show I attended.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2012 at 12:49
Originally posted by Proggy Pogo Proggy Pogo wrote:

...
it!), it must have been a great experience, & I appreciate what you say about sound quality both new & old - I remember having ringing ears for about 3 days after every gig I went to back in th '80s!
 
Thanks kindly for the nice words. A lot of the things I speak of here are, in general, what my experience was. I am not sure that some folks in the admin group can work with that very well ... although Dean is probably the only other person that shares his experiences and knowledge, and very well so.
 
The thing for me, is that a lot of this music doesn't mean anything without the dimention that caused it. This is not top ten stuff, even if some of it sold well. And this is the hard part to discuss in a "fan board" where people just want to pat each other in the back so they can feel like they spent their money on the right thing and that thing is good, and accepted as good by everyone!
 
I appreciate Roger and who he is and the work he does. I'm probably one of the few folks that actually appreciates "Ca Ira" in its own way and does not compare it to a rock song, which is the origin of almost ALL of the dislike on the piece. I do think that it needs an electric guitar and that the orchestra used, did not do enough drugs, psychedelics or grass, in order to take the script and the words more seriously and instead used/id a more generic expression for the emotions involved, which might be the conductor's problem and inexperience, if not the composer's.
 
But again ... "Ca Ira" is not really that different from what "The Wall" is about! ... is anyone discussing that? Kinda tells you they never read the script? Or actually listened to it, because the only attention span some folks have is only for 5 minute spans for rock music and songs?
 
The ear ringing thing, never happened with Pink Floyd for me. I walked out of Deep Purple (Long Beach Arena) because it was too loud and out of tune. I walked out of The Rolling Stones, because it was so dang loud and they were so far out of tune that it was incredible! I walked out of the last Ozric Tentacles showhere in Portland ... no sound person and their keyboards were not heard and were going out ... and their sound was the pits ... the saddest thing I ever heard that hurts their music ... no touch, or feel! ... all rock'n'roll sound! We left the concert iin LA for Hawkwind's Space 1999 tour. It was so loud and the hall so small ... that it hurt!
 
If music is music, the loudness is not an issue. But if the band has to ring your ears, I sincerely doubt that their music is as valuable as anyone makes it ... it's the illusion that because your ears ring, it was a great show, since the local BSprog band can't do it! Or jazz band.
 
I'm not a purits by any means, but the quality of the sound is more important than the loudness. I walked out before the end of the Dream Theater concert here in Portland (their tour a couple of years ago), because they were just another metal band on the stage ... it was all thrash and no music! They are not that bad on the albums at all! Places the drummer thing in a bigger light and perspective, doesn't it?.


Edited by moshkito - June 05 2012 at 13:45
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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