Complexity and enjoyment

Sumdeus wrote: progbethyname wrote: IThe 1980's was the age of electric, the 1990's was grudge/guitar distortion. These are very very broad generalizations. Both metal and hip-hop had many classic eras through the 80's and 90's and a lot of important development happened then. You can't really make it that black and white.

Yup. Right you are. I was thinking on a more prog/rock level than anything else. Not other genres specifically.

It's a simple. If you don't adapt, you won't survive. The 1980's was the age of electric, the 1990's was grudge/guitar distortion. I think RUSH and GENESIS were the best prog bands to adapting a new sound from being in the 1970's originally. Amazing really.

HarbouringTheSoul wrote:   moshkito wrote: and your assumption is that everyone is blind to the psychic world out there ... and its colors and vibrations that emanate. I haven't even talked about that.

Surrealist wrote: Dean, The quote tabs here only take the whole page.. not good.. so NO I AM NOT GOING TO USE IT!  Get that changed so you can use like quotes and I will use it.  This site needs to get with the times!  This isn't the 70's anymore... although I wish it was

Dean,

The quote tabs here only take the whole page.. not good.. so NO I AM NOT GOING TO USE IT!  Get that changed so you can use like quotes and I will use it. 

This site needs to get with the times!  This isn't the 70's anymore... although I wish it was

Surrealist wrote: They also brought a whole new level of metal crunch and very interesting rhythmic possibilities via the African influences favoured in that decade. Nothing was heavier or crunchy that Black Sabbath's first album, even to this day.  It's the rawness of those opening power cords that still send a chill up my spine, more than Slayer or any of newer metal bands.  Iommi's Gibson through a Marshall, right onto tape.  No fiddling around.  That's the right way to do it.  Still is.

So if 80s hadn't brought any of that, prog would survive for another decade? I don't think so.. You can't just imagine people could listen to the same genre for so many years. If you are a fan you can listen to it for your entire life, as we do, but other people will get tired. context changes, and so does the music, and this happened with metal, punk, grunge, gangsta rap or whatever you want..

I think it would have.. because the Prog artists would have still had the upper hand sonically with top shelf playing and great drumming that would have left other bands in the dust.  But of course, they would have had to continue making great albums.  If they didn't, then that would leave a void for new bands to come in and make great Prog albums.


They also brought a whole new level of metal crunch and very interesting rhythmic possibilities via the African influences favoured in that decade.

Nothing was heavier or crunchy that Black Sabbath's first album, even to this day.  It's the rawness of those opening power cords that still send a chill up my spine, more than Slayer or any of newer metal bands.  Iommi's Gibson through a Marshall, right onto tape.  No fiddling around.  That's the right way to do it.  Still is.

I'd never choose ABACAB over FOXTROT. To even compare those two albums is a bit extreme.

Well, I don't think Foxtrot gets made in the digital age.  It's the need for them to have been more internally resourceful that gave birth to that amazing recording.  It would have been way too distracting for them to have been pondering which "plugin" to use on the first bridge during "Get em out by Friday".  It's the mindset of experimentation within the confines of analog tape multitracking that pushed these bands in the right direction.  While there was cutting and splicing.. yes agreed, they STILL HAD TO PLAY IT!!!!  at some point.  It's not just practicing the chops.. it's practicing the track inside the other music directly... not just copy and pasting sound files here and there.  The intentions were much more intimate with the music.


Also. I'm very surprised that no one has mentioned RUSH in all of this. Rush is a band that definitely adapted with the times. It was a fight or flight attitude. Rush simply were exhausted from creating monster albums like HEMISPHERES

Are talking about Rush as a Prog band?  The great works were 2112, Farewell to Kings, Hemispheres, Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures.  That's it.  Done.

Signals signaled the end of Rush as a true Prog band.  I think they could have done something much more interesting with Grace Under Pressure using those sounds rather than what they did.  Crimson did it in the 80's and kept things very rooted in classic Prog. 

Rush made a lot of music with those great 5 albums in a very short period of time.  Not sure any other Prog band was ever that productive in such a tight timespan.  I would rather they take some time off and recharge rather than release Signals was obviously a major disappointment coming off Moving Pictures.  I understand they might have been tired of 20 minute opuses... but they didn't do that on Moving Pictures.  I think there was another great album there if they would have paced themselves a bit better.  Signals sounds rushed and out of place in the flow of their work. 
I would much rather hear Geddy play bass than keys.  I would much rather have seen him get even better at playing and singing and playing bass pedals. 

When I get in the mood to put on Rush, I don't reach for Power Windows .... maybe you do though..

Also. I'm very surprised that no one has mentioned RUSH in all of this. Rush is a band that definitely adapted with the times. It was a fight or flight attitude. Rush simply were exhausted from creating monster albums like HEMISPHERES and new they would have to change their sound in order to survive and adapt. Then, in 1981 came one of the greatest progressive rock albums in MOVING PICTURES. RUSH strongly adopted the age of electric that the 80's were carrying very strongly. Geddy strongly stressed the use of synth in his overall sound and that movement gave birth to more gems like SIGNALS, GRACE UNDER PRESSURE and the classic POWER WINDOWS. These albums were less COMPLEX then their previous efforts, but far more enjoyable in my opinion. RUSH achieved their best successes as a band in the 80's and still kept adapting going forward into the 90's. RUSH is one of those bands that have been able to really please their fans because of the diversity and growth of sound they have wielded over 4 decades of music.

Surrealist wrote: The argument that for a band to survive they must keep radically changing their sound to survive is questionable.

Radically is a word you have inferred of your own.  I don't think it has been suggested in any of the arguments.  Change is desirable, the degree of change is very relative. 

Surrealist wrote: Look at AC DC.  They have not changed their sound at all.  They still fill arenas.

And so would Genesis even if they only played their pop songs for the entire set.   You can't use commercial success in favour of one of your arguments and pooh-pooh it with regard to somebody else's argument.   Please attempt to be consistent in your stance.  

Surrealist wrote: What did the 80's bring that was not around before? Drum machines Quantization Midi Sampling Digital recording

They also brought a whole new level of metal crunch and very interesting rhythmic possibilities via the African influences favoured in that decade. 

Surrealist wrote: Foxtrot vs Abacab.  I'll have to think that one over.

I prefer Abacab.