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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:28 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
On a sidenote: guys, please, stop that with Springsteen! We already spent one page on that guy, and that had nothing (if not barely anything) to do with the thread's topic.
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No! I am not afraid to admit that I find Springsteen's first three albums excellent, particularly The Wild , The Innocent and the E St. Shuffle. Some of the tracks on that one are almost proggy (New York City Serenade, Incident on 57th ST.) After that, however, I agree that he became depressingly uninspired and uninteresting.
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Eerichtho
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 19 2007
Location: Estonia
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:26 |
Cannot agree with that at all.
Octopus is brilliant, all round. Though I'm reluctant in doing so - I'd like to think complexity is only a good thing.
Meshuggah may possibly be a counter-example I'd consider. But even with them, I'd say they don't have ANY melodic or harmonic complexity, so that nullifies any interesting rhytmical structures, if *these* even can be called complex (they repeat a pattern mostly, with slight variations - that's hardly all-out complex).
Edited by Eerichtho - November 02 2012 at 12:29
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:12 |
^ GG's "The Boys in the Band".
On a sidenote: guys, please, stop that with Springsteen! We already spent one page on that guy, and that had nothing (if not barely anything) to do with the thread's topic.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - November 02 2012 at 12:17
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Eerichtho
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 19 2007
Location: Estonia
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:06 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
Manuel wrote:
for me, complexities is mainly a factor product of orchestration ad arrangements. Sometimes musicians get to entangled in complexity, making their music a little dull. complexity is good, provided it conveys the emotions and the ideas the music is meant to express. |
Exactly my thought. |
At first thought, this sounds all real right. But I cannot think of a single example in prog where a piece is bad because it's too complex.
Name one.
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7759
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Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:05 |
I purchased "Greetings from Ashbury Park" I think in 1978. I stil have to finish listening to it and probably I will never. There's still a lot of Bob Dylan , Arlo Guthrie and CSN &Y to waste time with Springsteen. [/QUOTE] AMEN brother!! Stay away from L.A! Ooooh that rhymes. Anyway, burn Ashbury park and then buy ARENA and IQ's discography. Let the healing begin. Lol
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7759
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Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:00 |
[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq] ^ For your information, "acquire" is spelt with a "c" before "q".[/QUOTE your on fire today.
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Ytse_Jam
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 502
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Posted: November 02 2012 at 07:33 |
Hell, Born in the USA is a very good album
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: November 01 2012 at 13:16 |
prog4evr wrote:
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Lots of hate for Springsteen here... Am I the only one who likes "Dancing in the Dark"? |
Stone the heretic!! Who's with me?!? |
I have never intentionally listed to any Springstein - I have had it played at me - it has no resonance with me - I don't think he should be stoned...put him in a sensory depravation tank and play him prog epics one after the other till he sees the pointlessness of the Commerically acceptible product that Springstein produces......
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: November 01 2012 at 00:05 |
^ Depends on how you look at it. We have spent an entire page on Springsteen when in fact we should just go ...
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 23:54 |
Did I open a can of worms ???
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 23:49 |
^ We are proggers, not barbarians, muchacho.
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 23:26 |
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Lots of hate for Springsteen here... Am I the only one who likes "Dancing in the Dark"?
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Stone the heretic!! Who's with me?!?
Edited by prog4evr - October 31 2012 at 23:27
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 23:24 |
moshkito wrote:
Robert HIlburn? A veritable turkey that did not like music and was paid off by several music companies ... it was obvious. |
Yes, thank you, Moshkito! Actually - no. Now, that I remember who that "turkey" is, I am getting upset with him all over again!
Edited by prog4evr - October 31 2012 at 23:26
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 23:18 |
^ For your information, "acquire" is spelt with a "c" before "q".
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Aquiring the Taste
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 23 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 68
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 22:18 |
"It is our goal to expand the frontiers of contemporarary popular music at the risk of being very unpopular" " From the outset we have abandoned all preconceived thoughts on blatant commersialism. Instead we hope to give you something far more substantial & fulfilling. All you need to do is to is sit back, and acquire the taste" GG. The true essence of prgressive of music IMO.
Edited by Aquiring the Taste - November 01 2012 at 07:12
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 19:19 |
I feel drawn to arrangements. Those who have the talent to arrange complex sections to fall perfectly in place. Musican/composers often utilize this so called channel. Energy levels that are spiritual or of the underworld channel through a musician and they may create a piece of music that is beautiful in complexity and melodic form. The musician doesn't have to believe in a religion. Musicians are fearful regarding what can be produced by their own hands. When this energy weirdness wakes the musician from their sleep..they hear the notes , run downstairs, turn on the recorder and play. They don't seem to have control over what kind of specific energy channels through them. They don't usually ask questions to the unknown. They just compose, release it from their creative mind and move on. I know prog musicians experience this and I like the concept.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16215
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 11:36 |
octopus-4 wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Lots of hate for Springsteen here... Am I the only one who likes "Dancing in the Dark"?
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I like only a few of his songs. Other than that, ... may god have mercy on his soul for being so boring and getting all American with his boobs in our faces. |
Probably digging a bit in his discography we can find something decent, but I don't feel this need. There's already so many good stuff around that one life is not enough to listen to everything. |
I think it was one of those London specials, or something ... that Springsteen played on, and Shankar (double violinist from India) was there with him ... and Bruce goes ... what key you in, man? ... and Shankar goes ... you, my friend, no worry about the key I play ... you just play and join in! I don't think that we had to "know" music that much ... but it kinda tells you that Bruce is not as much about the feel of it, as he thinks he is?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 11:29 |
moshkito wrote:
and after 40 years, if all the friends I have ever had are any indication, you lose the ability to keep an open mind for listening to music ... somehow, after a long time, you kind of make sense to many of those different things ... and if you spend time in many of these posts, there are a LOT of youngsters that are showing excellent abilities of listening, but right away someone kills it by asking for your favorite or best drummer! The most subjective and bizarre of all questions ... !!! |
Very valid points, though I don't think it is specific to youngsters. I think age is no bar when it comes to formulating opinions without enough information but I do agree that comparison only gets in the way of appreciating more music if you cannot retain your objectivity. As for drummers, not all of them sound the same. Matt Chamberlain is a wonderful drummer and so is Charley Dayton. I really appreciate some of Phil Seway's work. Unfortunately, there's a kind of nerd like mentality prevalent in music discussions that just rejects anything that doesn't fit the "citius, altius, fortius" motto. Anything that is subtle, tasteful and creative ought to be eschewed in favour of the fast and the flashy, that's the way it goes.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13408
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 11:23 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Lots of hate for Springsteen here... Am I the only one who likes "Dancing in the Dark"?
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I like only a few of his songs. Other than that, ... may god have mercy on his soul for being so boring and getting all American with his boobs in our faces. |
Probably digging a bit in his discography we can find something decent, but I don't feel this need. There's already so many good stuff around that one life is not enough to listen to everything.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16215
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Posted: October 31 2012 at 11:16 |
Neelus wrote:
moshkito wrote:
progbethyname wrote:
^ I gathered that. Anyway, I understood what he was
driving at and he has created a very thoughtful and intellegent form.
Thank you PEDRO!! Consider my mind blown!! |
It's also something that comes with the TIME and the
PLACE ... since the late 60's and early 70's were a GOD-send for
experimental music and what not ... that today is NOT possible ... and
today's folks, as well meaning as they are about the music discussion,
are not very good at discussing these moments, most of which ... are
... personal ... in the first place. |
Not to
stoke a fire or anything, but you also have to be careful making it look
like the younger generations have no sense in discussing this classic
art form, as then it appears that you are implying that it should die with your generation.
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Not intended that way at all ... the point is/was that ... when the listening you have is wide, as ours was ... in those days AM was different from FM, and your friend was playing something else totally different ... today, the drumbeat in most of the bands listed is almost the same complete with the Bill Bruford snare drum ... louder each time to tell you that you are not a musician that can count silently, and after 40 years, if all the friends I have ever had are any indication, you lose the ability to keep an open mind for listening to music ... somehow, after a long time, you kind of make sense to many of those different things ... and if you spend time in many of these posts, there are a LOT of youngsters that are showing excellent abilities of listening, but right away someone kills it by asking for your favorite or best drummer! The most subjective and bizarre of all questions ... !!! All in all, music does DIE with the generation, and I consider my generation an important one ... as so many artists are remembered on so many different areas of music ... but if you don't have the ear for "music" and understand the value of a Miles, or Keith Jarrett, or Henry Mancini, or Bernard Herrmann ... the whole thing tends to get blown up and wasted in "favorites". And favorites will die faster than the real giants! But today, people are listening to "styles" ... which we NEVER did!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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