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Complexity and enjoyment

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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:00
[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq] ^ For your information, "acquire" is spelt with a "c" before "q".[/QUOTE

your on fire today.
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:05
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:


Originally posted by prog4evr prog4evr wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

[Bruce Springsteen is NOT complex - Born in The U.S.A. is, well, insipid.........apologies if any readers here enjoy that one but I can't.........

Finally. Somebody hears and sees it like I do. Can't stand Springsteen as well man. He's voice is comical to me. It's Adam Sandlers fault from SNL

Reminds me of when I was living in LA as a teenager in the mid-1970s, totally into early- and mid-70s prog at the time. The LA Times music reviewer (I forget his name - and I am glad!) pontificated wildly about how inane progressive rock groups were; they did not even have a personal identity. Then, came Springsteen in 1975 (thanks to a lot of contrived media hype - especially appearing on the cover of Time magazine) and this LA Times reviewer waxes eloquently about how refreshing Springsteen is, and so new; even with a personal identity - "Bruce Springsteen" - that everyone could relate to. Needless to say, I lost total respect for the LA Times music reviews, and never - to this day - stand to listen to anything ever recorded by that propped-up poster-boy Springsteen...

I purchased "Greetings from Ashbury Park" I think in 1978. I stil have to finish listening to it and probably I will never. There's still a lot of Bob Dylan , Arlo Guthrie and CSN &Y to waste time with Springsteen.
[/QUOTE]

AMEN brother!! Stay away from L.A! Ooooh that rhymes. Anyway, burn Ashbury park and then buy ARENA and IQ's discography. Let the healing begin. Lol
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eerichtho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:06
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

for me, complexities is mainly a factor product of orchestration ad arrangements. Sometimes musicians get to entangled in complexity, making their music a little dull. complexity is good, provided it conveys the emotions and the ideas the music is meant to express.

Exactly my thought.

At first thought, this sounds all real right. But I cannot think of a single example in prog where a piece is bad because it's too complex.

Name one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:12
^ GG's "The Boys in the Band".

On a sidenote: guys, please, stop that with Springsteen! We already spent one page on that guy, and that had nothing (if not barely anything) to do with the thread's topic.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - November 02 2012 at 12:17
"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eerichtho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:26
Cannot agree with that at all.

Octopus is brilliant, all round. Though I'm reluctant in doing so - I'd like to think complexity is only a good thing.

Meshuggah may possibly be a counter-example I'd consider. But even with them, I'd say they don't have ANY melodic or harmonic complexity, so that nullifies any interesting rhytmical structures, if *these* even can be called complex (they repeat a pattern mostly, with slight variations - that's hardly all-out complex).


Edited by Eerichtho - November 02 2012 at 12:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:28
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:



On a sidenote: guys, please, stop that with Springsteen! We already spent one page on that guy, and that had nothing (if not barely anything) to do with the thread's topic.


No!

I am not afraid to admit that I find Springsteen's first three albums excellent, particularly The Wild , The Innocent and the E St. Shuffle. Some of the tracks on that one are almost proggy (New York City Serenade, Incident on 57th ST.) After that, however, I agree that he became depressingly uninspired and uninteresting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarbouringTheSoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:35
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

I don't think he should be stoned...put him in a sensory depravation tank and play him prog epics one after the other till he sees the pointlessness of the Commerically acceptible product that Springstein produces......

LOL Sorry, I wasn't aware that my preferences were objectively wrong. I'll get around to changing them.

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ GG's "The Boys in the Band".

Really? I don't find it any more complex than the other songs on that album. Frankly, it is a very complex album, but I always found it to be a very catchy album too. Now you might dislike "The Boys in the Band" for a myriad of reasons, but if it's too complex for its own sake, how come you don't dislike the rest of the album on the same grounds (unless you actually do)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 13:18
SPRINGSTEEN is my kryptonite. Playing his sound is a great way to kill me.....slowly
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 13:23
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

SPRINGSTEEN is my kryptonite.


Do you mean that you consider him to equivalent to the Three Doors Down song "Kryptonite?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 14:02
Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul HarbouringTheSoul wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ GG's "The Boys in the Band".

Really? I don't find it any more complex than the other songs on that album. Frankly, it is a very complex album, but I always found it to be a very catchy album too. Now you might dislike "The Boys in the Band" for a myriad of reasons, but if it's too complex for its own sake, how come you don't dislike the rest of the album on the same grounds (unless you actually do)?
That song is certainly more complex than "A Cry For Everyone". I'm having a really hard time remembering what comes after the first few notes of the ... ahem ... motif on "The Boys in the Band". And no, I do not have a myriad of reasons to dislike it! Plus, I kind of like "Knots". Reminds me of Faust a bit.
"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 14:05
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:



On a sidenote: guys, please, stop that with Springsteen! We already spent one page on that guy, and that had nothing (if not barely anything) to do with the thread's topic.


No!

I am not afraid to admit that I find Springsteen's first three albums excellent, particularly The Wild , The Innocent and the E St. Shuffle. Some of the tracks on that one are almost proggy (New York City Serenade, Incident on 57th ST.) After that, however, I agree that he became depressingly uninspired and uninteresting.

All I'm saying is that what we really derailed the previous page of the thread, ... and we can do better than that. 
"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 14:09
^Sometimes thread derailings can be ok.
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 14:34
OK, ... well, as long the thread is not totally twisted and turned topic-wise for pages and pages, I'm cool with that.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - November 02 2012 at 14:35
"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 14:51
Originally posted by Ytse_Jam Ytse_Jam wrote:

Hell, Born in the USA is a very good album
Honestly I don't think so.Unhappy
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 15:00
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

OK, ... well, as long the thread is not totally twisted and turned topic-wise for pages and pages, I'm cool with that.


To people like me, thread topics are jumping off points, not rails that are meant to be stayed on. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neelus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 15:12
Here is a little present to this thread...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ytse_Jam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 17:29
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by Ytse_Jam Ytse_Jam wrote:

Hell, Born in the USA is a very good album
Honestly I don't think so.Unhappy
I know most of the people here don't, but i kinda like 80s pop sometimes..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alitare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 17:50


That's my favorite Springsteen song (and it's off my favorite Springsteen album, the only one I love). I could do without the Born albums. I don't much care for the blubber of The River. Nebraska's alright for dusty, barren neo-folk type. The first couple albums were sharp in a tight 'jam' like thing. I pretty much hate everything else. The critics heaped praise on his newest work. I suspect they'd have done it even if it was the worst album on the planet. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarbouringTheSoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 18:30
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

That song is certainly more complex than "A Cry For Everyone".

Not particularly. "A Cry for Everyone" might have a riff that's built out of 'simple' power chords, but if you try to actually isolate it from the song, you will find that it's quite long-winded. And there are millions of other bits in the song, like the way the keyboard and guitar dance around each other while playing the same lick in the 'main' instrumental and the way the bassline from that part is repurposed as a riff in the middle section. It's a much more complex than it might seem at first. It's catchier than "The Boys in the Band" though, I'll give you that.

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

I'm having a really hard time remembering what comes after the first few notes of the ... ahem ... motif on "The Boys in the Band".

That 'motif' is indeed almost impossible to sing or remember exactly in your head. It's way too fast and rhythmically complex. But as a test, try singing the aforementioned riff from "A Cry for Everyone" out loud without listening to the song beforehand. The other motifs, if you will, in "The Boys in the Band" are quite a bit less twisted and more 'singable'. I assume that what makes the song hard to remember for you is not the fact that it's complex, but the fact that it has no vocals that you can associate it with. It's always easier to associate GG songs with their vocal parts because you can actually remember them precisely in your head.

In fact, I myself ignored the song for a long time because I didn't actively listen to the album. I had it on as background music (my preferred method of getting acquainted with new music), so the vocal parts caught my attention a lot more than the instrumental. Listening to "The Boys in the Band" a more closely was necessary to get an idea of what's going on. And listening "A Cry for Everyone" more closely, I was surprised with how much is going on in that song that I wasn't really aware of before.

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

And no, I do not have a myriad of reasons to dislike it!

That's not what I meant to say. What I meant was "there are many possible reasons for which you might dislike the song", not "you might dislike this song for many reasons at once".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 18:45
^ Will keep all those points in mind ... though I do think that I pretty much nailed that hook from "A Cry For Everyone" in my head. Smile ... Ermm
"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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