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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16163
Posted: November 13 2012 at 12:20
Dean wrote:
Rock & Folk >> Krishna-Murti, Gurdjieff...?
Fripp >> I don't know any of these people, their names say nothing to me...
Rock & Folk >> Of course, of course...Has the gurdjieffian theory of multiplicity not modified the question of harmonic intervals, and your scales in half key?
Fripp >> If the question is to know if I have a discipline of life, the answer is yes. But I don't see things in categorical terms...
In general, and even my dad did this, any person that is "famous" does not "give away their secrets" ... and the reason for it is obvious ... if everyone else does it, I won't be able to. Not to mention that now you can't go to the movies with your kid without being bothered! Or have dinner with your wife quietly!
All in all, believe it or not, this is the reason why Robert Fripp, in my book, is not a major artist. In the end, he does not see that the difference is the "person" behind it all ... and of course, he can not separate himself for one minute to see that.
I had this discussion, with Daevid Allen ... when someone asked him a question one time, and he answered it, to be polite and friendly ... and then I cornered him ... and he winked and we talked some more ... about something else ... and I knew ... what this was about.
In the end, and Daevid and I agreed, it is about the person. You can protect your material, and if you don't, you're gonna lose it. Robert made mistakes early on, that he has not "transcended" and is allowing them to turn him into a bitter man in the end ... and one that is leaving behind the one thing that he can do so well, but can not remove his mind from it.
I understand, and I know, that the music business, and the movie business are very difficult and at times they really eat you apart and them some ... and many of us are sensitive to it ... look, I've had a screenplay stolen ... but those killers will never see the light of day of that piece ... the curse associated with it, will hurt more, than the hurt they gave me times 1000 lifetimes! I also know one thing ... I had a copy of it at the Library of Congress already ... and they can kill my body, but they can't kill me ... in other words, the artist has a chance to be remembered, but how many thieves will ever be remembered? ... can you name one?
It's a personal thing ... and I can see him fighting it hard ... but in the end, the only person he is fighting is himself ... he is missing the clarity, the light, the love ... that he deserves before he departs from us! Maybe he is right ... it's time to retire from music, get rid of all the instruments and gadgets and go see the flowers and the world with your wife ... go enjoy life, Robert ... it is there waiting for you!
I like to say, that ... you either are the artist as a WHOLE person, or you are just a figment of your imagination ... and one of these is going to tear up your inner fabric quite hard ... but that is the price you pay for being ... in the big city! Everything is more expensive, and such ... it is quieter out in the country ... where you can have a real evening underneath the stars!
Edited by moshkito - November 13 2012 at 12:35
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: January 14 2012
Location: Quebec
Status: Offline
Points: 1266
Posted: November 13 2012 at 17:23
I think... three possible things:
1. Prog bands ran out of inspiration
2. People were tired of concept albums, 20 minute songs and complex stuff. They wanted something more simple and more accessible
3. The Disco (fk) and punk mouvements came in and sold even more records. This is very simple and accesible music that can be more anthemic than prog. But the differences from these is that punk was more influental than disco, and disco faded away very quickly. Punk stayed, because it was a revolution at the time.
Poseidon wants to Acquire the Taste of the Fragile Lamb - Derek Adrian Gabriel Anderson, singer of the band Geneyesontle
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1741
Posted: November 13 2012 at 18:55
timothy leary wrote:
Justin Bieber
Man, I wish I could find this quote that I thought was very powerful. I think it was uttered by James Murphy (of LCD Soundsystem) and was cited at Pitchfork.com. I spent the last hour trying to find it, to no avail. Anyway, it went something like this: "A teenage girl's experience of a current pop song that she loves is more direct and powerful than a 30- or 40-year old rock critic's appreciation for his current favorite track or album."
Ugh, *something* like that, to that effect. The way it was put was far more suggestive, and really powerful. I really admired this ethic or aesthetic, even if it doesn't come natural to me...
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 6754
Posted: November 13 2012 at 20:06
Surrealist wrote:
Howe plays things no one else can play...
Not sure about that, there are a plethora of rather excellent Yes tribute bands out there, complete with guitarists who can pull off Howe's material from CTTE, TFTO etc. virtually note-for-note. The band Fragile from the UK come to mind.
On the other hand, I have yet to see or hear of a KC tribute band with a guitarist who can truly play Fripp's catalog! I play some of it myself, it is damned difficult. I don't even attempt his guitar break in "Fracture."
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7946
Posted: November 14 2012 at 01:48
From the booklet with The Jade Warrior album Eclipse. Glyn Havard, "We were just getting into our stride when Glam Rock crept up and that immediately dated us." "We got paid for recording, but the musical climate had changed and the Vertigo just thought that nobody would buy them. So they sat on them.
Jon Field, "I guess the record company thought we'd had our day and that's why they didn't release our albums. 'Eclipse' was a finished album and there was a whole load of stuff that we recorded and wasn't used and that became the material we used on 'Fifth Element'. There has always been an interest in everything we have ever done."
From the booklet accompanying 'Fifth Element': Glyn Havard, "These albums serve as a footnote to the history of the band and it's a shame they never came out when they were supposed to, back in 1973. They would have been an official part of the hIstory. As it stands, they never got the mileage that the other albums did. But I'm proud of them both, and there are some good songs on them. It's only because of the changes that were running through the music industry at the time that they weren't made available."
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16163
Posted: November 14 2012 at 13:56
geneyesontle wrote:
...
2. People were tired of concept albums, 20 minute songs and complex stuff. They wanted something more simple and more accessible
3. The Disco (fk) and punk mouvements came in and sold even more records. This is very simple and accesible music that can be more anthemic than prog. But the differences from these is that punk was more influental than disco, and disco faded away very quickly. Punk stayed, because it was a revolution at the time.
The 2nd one is not correct in my book.
All in all, the whole thing about people getting tired of this and that ... was, and IS, a media fabrication ... if that was the case ... do you think that we would still be here talking about anything?
It was a case of media/music companies not wanting to lose control over their selling of singles ... and at the time, albums were a bigger loss of money (more expensive to make!) than any single ... and this has been a battle ever since ... the _________________ companies always complaining that their sales are going down!
Please help put those people in their place ... and stop defending them. You know darn well that everyone of us loves the Tull opus, or the Pink Floyd's Opus, or Genesis, or Yes ... so wtf are you defending a standard that we OBVIOUSLY do not care for (top ten! and short cuts only!) .. and does not speak for the music we love?
And Disco did not stink, or sukk or you did not drink enough sake! What stunk was the stuff around it that some of us did not care for, up to and including not getting laid or being able to pick up that nice pair of legs! ... but I am not hearing anyone here say that the Disco that CAN did was bad ... or anyone else's! The only think Punk did not have? ... movies ... well, just one or two that no one ever saw ... because they were depressing! While the other movies were ... not great ... but they were fun and nice!
There ... I said it!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
A fact which proves that the record companies were pushing prog aside is when you observe the low level reached by the newly formed prog bands of the late 70's. Dixie Dregs were signed to "Capricorn" and Happy the Man to Arista and they were basically fading quickly from the public eye. Record labels like "United Artists" and "Billingsgate" manufactured domestic copies of albums by Can, Man, Amon Dull II, ....Omega's albums were distributed by Passport records and this was a chance for these bands to prove their talents to America. These bands were not promoted the same way that Jethro Tull and ELP were. They were lucky if they toured the U.S. at all. The business was set up for concepts. Placing Jade Warrior on tour with bands that played "African influenced Funk/rock" was a marketing strategy of sorts. They even toured with Dave Mason at one point and so some of the underground prog bands of the 70's leaked through for a short period of time when they were being used for the purpose of new marketing ideas. It was very sad and strange because ELP. YES, and Jethro Tull were huge in America yet when it came down to the record companies taking chances...all their eggs went into the big 5 or 6 basket. I never totally understood why? Perhaps the older executives had retired by the mid to late 70's? But that can only be half the reason because the record companies were not driven to promote bands like Gong or Guru, Guru even during a time when music of an experimental nature was leaking through the media. The answers or reasons must be within a combination of different observations over time.
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 6754
Posted: November 14 2012 at 23:28
^ Nice reasoning, Toddler!
One thing not mentioned is that, while symphonic prog such as Yes & ELP largely contracted after the mid-1970's, the late 1970's and early 1980's saw quite an explosion of jazz-rock fusion.
Al Dimeola, Bill Bruford, Brand X and many others really came out strong in this period, producing some of their best work and touring widely. King Crimson reinvented themselves, and many other groups found popularity, either by drinking at the fountain of "pop" or toughing it out with their own formula.
I guess the question is "What is 'classic' prog, and why did that fade?" Mellotrons certainly lost favor!
Joined: October 12 2012
Location: Squonk
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Posted: November 15 2012 at 01:50
The Classic Prog bands, at least on their great albums made sure their musical chops or virtuosity shined. They used time tested great sounding instruments. They paid attention to composition and made sure it was crafted with care and attention to detail, stylish and tasteful for what they were trying accomplish.
I think in a way Frank Zappa would NOT fall into the category of Classic Prog, because much of it while virtuostic was not tasteful in the classic Prog sensibility.
Gentle Giant did things "tongue in cheek" for sure... but somehow it was stylishly acceptable within the Prog fans or followers.
The digital age really hurt the Prog bands.. but I am not sure how Steve Howe decided to do "Asia" and still bad mouths the Trevor Rabin "Yes" I think Rabin did some interesting things on some of the deeper album cuts than Howe ever did in Asia. But if we are talking "Yes" then it is all about Howe for me. 80's YES should have been called "Cinema" as originally intended.
Why did all the classic prog bands go POP? Where is the integrity? Only Fripp has integrity in my opinion. Well, I would say Hackett also if I can overlook a couple of his early 80's albums. He did wake up quickly from that and really continued the Classic tradition even until this day and he is doing fine.
Does Steve Hackett ever contribute on these boards?
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Why classic prog faded?
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Dean wrote:
k) and punk mouvements came in and sold even more records. This is very simple and accesible music that can be more anthemic than prog. But the differences from these is that punk was more influental than disco, and disco faded away very quickly. Punk stayed, because it was a revolution at the time.
