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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:22
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

The drugs changed.  Instead of sitting around, stoned off of our asses on weed in dark rooms, folks started to use more up-tempo chemicals like speed, MDA, coke etc.  
Disco, punk and other music is more conducive to dancing (if that's what you call it).  
If Video killed the radio star, then dancing killed off classic prog.  That simple.  It still had a few kicks left with Asia, Rush, etc. but for the most part, Mellotrons ceased to exist.


Very interesting point actually. Yes. Their was a time where drugs/music were a very strong merriment with one another....well actually there still is!! I think this is a good point. Funny too. :)

The war on drugs....pitiful and a waste of money. :(

There's some truth here, but I don't think the kind of music liked was a consequence of the drug used. Probably who likes a certain type of drug likes a certain kind of music. In my youth I have smoked joints and sucked LSD. I have tried cocaine some times but never liked it (for my sake, thanks God!). I simply don't like speed and dance and prefer being contemplative.
I don't use any drug anymore since decades, neither nicotine, but I still use prog music.

I quite like punk,anyway. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:24
I'm struggling to see the relationship between dancing and classic prog...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:25
I do love electronic music. But some things have been lost: like performances (a live album by a DJ just doesn't work, does it? Unless it's something along the lines of how Kraftwerk perform, or what Portishead did by incorporating an orchestra). Not many great live CDs from electronic artists - maybe Kraftwerk's Minimum Maximum, Portishead's Roseland NYC Live, and Bjork's amazing live albums with live musicians and electronics (e.g. e-band Matmos)... Buth then, Portishead and Bjork can afford that kind of all-out extravaganza. Radiohead do an amazing job of integrating electronics into their live sound. (But what's missing from their discography are great live albums - although excellent-quality roios are fairly easy to find.) And I feel like Grandpa Simpson, getting far from the topic and rambling incoherently, so I'll stop now, lol.

Edited by jude111 - October 02 2013 at 10:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:32
That's what I'm saying. If I like oranges I probably like juices, too but the two things are different and not necessarily related.
Who likes prog may like watching sci-fi movies or natural landscapes, and if is a drug addict may prefer one drug to another.  The things are not related. There are similarities in how we get pleasure from things, but they are subjective, not objective. 

Music doesn't have anything to do with drugs or even with dancing. The connnections are in our minds.

And that Genesis' album is very crap.... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:34
^^You should definitely check out the new Ulver and Djam Karet albums, which surprisingly are bringing back the Berlin School of electronics in a new and exciting light. Ulver does it with the usage of strings and modern classical while DK opts for a more rocking and psychedelic approach. I hope both of these albums can materialise in a live setting and would gladly pay money that I don't have to go see it!

Edited by Guldbamsen - October 02 2013 at 10:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:38
idk...Shakti are listed in this website's database and I watched them give an incredible performance last year.   In fact, the whole place (an open air theater by the way) was packed and the audience-band interaction was fantastic.   But again, I had suggested the show to some of my friends who are fans of Shakti and they said, "Oh, but they don't have L Shankar anymore and they have Shankar Mahadevan on vocals, so it won't be any good".  Nevermind that U Shrinivas, the mandolin virtuoso, replaced L Shankar.   With 'fans' like these, who needs enemies, eh.   Now 'proper' prog rock bands don't turn up to perform here but they do perform a lot in Europe and USA so I am sure people who are prepared to go out there and put up the money could enjoy great gigs.  Wilson for instance has a great band right now, with Guthrie Govan and Marco Minnemann/Chad Wackerman.   Not relevant to prog, but I got to see a great jazz show by the Russian saxophonist Igor Butman too last year.   We left after the nth encore because we were hungry and had a 90 min drive back home as well.  But he had the audience eating out of his hand.   The excitement is still there, but people have got pretty cynical.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:45
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

idk...Shakti are listed in this website's database and I watched them give an incredible performance last year.   In fact, the whole place (an open air theater by the way) was packed and the audience-band interaction was fantastic.   But again, I had suggested the show to some of my friends who are fans of Shakti and they said, "Oh, but they don't have L Shankar anymore and they have Shankar Mahadevan on vocals, so it won't be any good".  Nevermind that U Shrinivas, the mandolin virtuoso, replaced L Shankar.   With 'fans' like these, who needs enemies, eh.   Now 'proper' prog rock bands don't turn up to perform here but they do perform a lot in Europe and USA so I am sure people who are prepared to go out there and put up the money could enjoy great gigs.  Wilson for instance has a great band right now, with Guthrie Govan and Marco Minnemann/Chad Wackerman.   Not relevant to prog, but I got to see a great jazz show by the Russian saxophonist Igor Butman too last year.   We left after the nth encore because we were hungry and had a 90 min drive back home as well.  But he had the audience eating out of his hand.   The excitement is still there, but people have got pretty cynical.  

I agree. I've seen some really cool shows by artists listed here on PA, and as I've said numerous of times, the overall experience also relies on the audience's will to embrace the new pathways - new constellations and altogether different branchings of one's fave artists - or unknown artists for that matter. Luckily so, most gigs I've been to have been received with much appreciation and good will, instead of cynicism. Thank ford for that!
Øresund Space Collective, Steve Wilson, Burning Red Ivanhoe here's to yaBeer I love you guys!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:45
If there's one thing that has certainly changed compared to earlier, it's the amount of choice.  Customer is king now, we get to pick and choose as per our likes and dislikes rather than be "happy with what you have".  That ought to be a good thing but sometimes I am not so sure as it seems to make us take things for granted.   I have seen people sing along and stand up and applaud to a great soundtrack in a cinema hall when I was a kid.  Doesn't happen anymore, that level of engagement is gone.   People are oh so damn hard to please. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:47
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

If there's one thing that has certainly changed compared to earlier, it's the amount of choice.  Customer is king now, we get to pick and choose as per our likes and dislikes rather than be "happy with what you have".  That ought to be a good thing but sometimes I am not so sure as it seems to make us take things for granted.   I have seen people sing along and stand up and applaud to a great soundtrack in a cinema hall when I was a kid.  Doesn't happen anymore, that level of engagement is gone.   People are oh so damn hard to please. 


If there's one thing that I've learned over the years, then it's that people don't have the slightest clue of what they wantLOL
And that includes folks who say they hate surprises...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:47
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

 
I agree. I've seen some really cool shows by artists listed here on PA, and as I've said numerous of times, the overall experience also relies on the audience's will to embrace the new pathways - new constellations and altogether different branchings of one's fave artists - or unknown artists for that matter. Luckily so, most gigs I've been to have been received with much appreciation and good will, instead of cynicism. Thank ford for that!
Øresund Space Collective, Steve Wilson, Burning Red Ivanhoe here's to yaBeer I love you guys!

Exactly.  I had in fact never watched or heard Butman before, nor watched any jazz saxophonist live.  Who knows, if I had lived where jazz was a big part of local culture, I might have had a more lukewarm attitude to the show.  But on that day, I was only spellbound by what all he could do on his instrument.  If I had decided to compare it to Paul Desmond, yes, I might have walked out before the first encore.  But why should I when I wasn't even born in those times. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:53
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

 
If there's one thing that I've learned over the years, then it's that people don't have the slightest clue of what they wantLOL
And that includes folks who say they hate surprises...

Nailed it.  Trying to second guess one's 'ideal' musical experience is a futile effort imo.  I would hate to spoil the feeling of surprise for myself. But hey that's me and I cannot decide after 0:30 into a track whether I like it or not unlike some amazing friends of mine.  LOL  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:56
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

 
If there's one thing that I've learned over the years, then it's that people don't have the slightest clue of what they wantLOL
And that includes folks who say they hate surprises...

Nailed it.  Trying to second guess one's 'ideal' musical experience is a futile effort imo.  I would hate to spoil the feeling of surprise for myself. But hey that's me and I cannot decide after 0:30 into a track whether I like it or not unlike some amazing friends of mine.  LOL  

Let me guess: he goes by the name of Nostradamus, right?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:58
lol, maybe that's who they think they are.   Wink  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 18:33
At least the major part of the classic prog rock music are made for listening, in other words not appropriate for dancing.
 
And just in the 70´s emerged the Disco fever with huge success and selling at that time.
 
These are one of the reasons why classic prog faded in the 80´s.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 01:16
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

At least the major part of the classic prog rock music are made for listening, in other words not appropriate for dancing.
 
And just in the 70´s emerged the Disco fever with huge success and selling at that time.
 
These are one of the reasons why classic prog faded in the 80´s.
 
 
If in the 70s people has quit listening to long suites and started moving their asses on 4/4 it's because of people, not because of dance music. Being against the system and trying to change the world as in the 60s is not an easy thing and with the "restoration" of the second half of the 70s Disco music was one of the main offerings. 
People's will to fight for something, and sometimes people's intelligence faded, not classic prog.

Dynosaurus who were used to earn a lot of money just tried to follow the stream to continue earning, that's all. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 13:11
There was also a shift in consciousness away from reality such as video game simulation etc.  I think this had a profound effect on music as the digital age fell from the sky like Agent Orange.

For those older folks here.. they might remember Pong.. being one of the first video games which in this case represented Tennis.  It wasn't tennis, just a horribly dumbed down version of the game.  Asteroids put you in a space ship shooting at broken up comets.  All this was fun at first, but eventually (most) realized it was a serious waste of life and time. 

Music then took this same path toward convenience with all the digital convenience of sampling instruments, trivializing them etc.  What might sound amazing at first quickly sours into boredom. 

When music started becoming more about the "new sounds" then how the sounds were played really propped up the tombstone for the genre.. many genres of music.

Classical music has suffered greatly by this insistence that sounds need to be new and fresh... rather than the focus being on what can we play with these time tested elements of proper sonic integration.

Moogs, Mellotrons, Hammonds, Arps, Rhodes all became archaic sounds when really they shouldn't have.  The techo age of creating sounds that don't exist in the real world on any instrument is like handing cotton candy to the masses.
But cotton candy rots your teeth and digital sampling rots your ears.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 13:20
Plank discovered the quanta, but the atomic bomb was realized by others. Technology is neutral, its use can be good or bad. You can waste your time bombing asteroids or use it to find new diagnostic tools to fight cancer. 

I've always liked travelling out of my mind. I've used sci-fi novels and movies, drugs, music and even videogames. 

The real issue with the 80s electronic was the excessive standardisation. To sound "modern" you had to use Yamaha DX7, and Fairlight, to look "modern" you had to cut your hair in that idiot way, with tons of gel. To sing "modern" you had to use your throat like David Bowie. 

But fairlights, gel and David Bowie are not the evil. It's their use.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 13:21
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

At least the major part of the classic prog rock music are made for listening, in other words not appropriate for dancing.
 
And just in the 70´s emerged the Disco fever with huge success and selling at that time.
 
These are one of the reasons why classic prog faded in the 80´s.
 
 
If in the 70s people has quit listening to long suites and started moving their asses on 4/4 it's because of people, not because of dance music. Being against the system and trying to change the world as in the 60s is not an easy thing and with the "restoration" of the second half of the 70s Disco music was one of the main offerings. 
People's will to fight for something, and sometimes people's intelligence faded, not classic prog.

Dynosaurus who were used to earn a lot of money just tried to follow the stream to continue earning, that's all. 
I'm still not getting this Disco killed Prog thing.
 
I'm really struggling to imagine that long-haired, bearded, unwashed, demin-clad, kaftan-wearing, patchouli-scented, dope-smoking, beer-swilling Prog audiences all had a shower, donned a white suit and headed off for Studio 54 for a bacardi cocktail and a bop on the dance floor, and then went down to the record stores to swap their copies Close To The Edge and Tarkus for the latest Disco Tex and His Sexolettes single.


Edited by Dean - October 05 2013 at 13:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 13:33
Weren't there a whole bunch of very nice looking ladies turning 18 during the late seventies?

Edited by Neelus - October 05 2013 at 13:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 13:36
A whole big bunch of very nice looking ladies turn 18 every year.

 

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