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FDR vs JFK

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Poll Question: Which American presdient commonly apriviated into 3 letters is best?
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12 [66.67%]
6 [33.33%]
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    Posted: November 12 2012 at 18:47
FDR took part in getting us out of the biggest economic depression in American history and led us through WWII. JFK inspired the Apollo missions and was lucky enough to sleep with Marilyn Monroe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:02
The one that at least was reasonable enough not to start WWIII. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:10
I didn't vote for either one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:14
Considering JFK served less than four years and FDR twelve, it's not quite a fair comparison.   I like them both, very similar in many ways;  terrible health problems, wary of war, highly ambitious and forward thinking, put the people first, understood the fragility of life.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:24
Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

FDR took part in getting us out of the biggest economic depression in American history and led us through WWII. JFK inspired the Apollo missions and was lucky enough to sleep with Marilyn Monroe.


FDR did not get us out of anything.

JFK got himself into a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:34
Kennedy because he cut taxes and no president has ever been worse than FDR.

Can't wait to see the current economic mess we're in stretch out for fifteen years and people call it a triumph, Rob.


Edited by thellama73 - November 12 2012 at 19:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:35
FDR by far.  He did a lot to get this country back on track again after the era of laissez faire economics led to the depression.  FDR restored economic order and helped ease the suffering of many and returned this country to greatness, until the era of Ronald Reagan brought it all crashing down. 

And before you start Rob Tongue, my parents lived through the depression.  They were there.  And I'm not really interested in right-wing rewrites of history.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:36
FDR kind of threw the Constitution away and did as he pleased, but it didn't necessarily harm our country.

JFK prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, though I'm unsure of his amount of involvement. But Kennedy also gave us Lyndon which is unforgivable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:38
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

laissez faire economics led to the depression.

There's not a shred of truth to that. Hoover was a big government guy.

Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:


And before you start Rob Tongue, my parents lived through the depression.


And lots of people who were there for the 9/11 attacks think it was an inside job. Being there doesn't automatically make your opinion right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:41
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

JFK prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, though I'm unsure of his amount of involvement. But Kennedy also gave us Lyndon which is unforgivable.
Interesting, you're unsure of Kennedy's involvement in a potential nuclear showdown?  Meaning he was drugged-up?  Entertaining 'lady friends'?  Kept out of the loop by a renegade CIA?  I'm just asking.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:42
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

JFK prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, though I'm unsure of his amount of involvement. But Kennedy also gave us Lyndon which is unforgivable.
Interesting, you're unsure of Kennedy's involvement in a potential nuclear showdown?  Meaning he was drugged-up?  Entertaining 'lady friends'?  Kept out of the loop by a renegade CIA?  I'm just asking.


I'm just not too keen on the facts and don't know whether he personally resolved it or if his cabinet did much of the work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:45
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

FDR kind of threw the Constitution away and did as he pleased, but it didn't necessarily harm our country.

JFK prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, though I'm unsure of his amount of involvement. But Kennedy also gave us Lyndon which is unforgivable.


If he had prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, that implies that there was no Cuban Missile Crisis, because JFK prevented it.  Just sayin.  Wink

As for the Constitution, sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few to cling to a 150 year old piece of paper (it was only 150 years old in 1939 before anyone says it's older than 150). 


Edited by The Doctor - November 12 2012 at 19:47
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:47
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

FDR kind of threw the Constitution away and did as he pleased, but it didn't necessarily harm our country.

JFK prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, though I'm unsure of his amount of involvement. But Kennedy also gave us Lyndon which is unforgivable.


If he had prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, that implies that there was no Cuban Missile Crisis, because JFK prevented it.  Just sayin.  Wink

I see I've ventured into the world of politics where the meaning of what you are saying is understood, but your phrasing is berated, therefore rendering what you have said worthless.

He prevented nuclear war.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:49
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

FDR kind of threw the Constitution away and did as he pleased, but it didn't necessarily harm our country.

JFK prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, though I'm unsure of his amount of involvement. But Kennedy also gave us Lyndon which is unforgivable.


If he had prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis, that implies that there was no Cuban Missile Crisis, because JFK prevented it.  Just sayin.  Wink

I see I've ventured into the world of politics where the meaning of what you are saying is understood, but your phrasing is berated, therefore rendering what you have said worthless.

He prevented nuclear war.


Sense of humor dude.  Check into it.  I was just screwing with you.  Tongue
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:52
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

 
I see I've ventured into the world of politics where the meaning of what you are saying is understood, but your phrasing is berated, therefore rendering what you have said worthless.

He prevented nuclear war.
I apologize for any perceived beration; I'm just a Kennedy buff, so ...  

He did prevent nuclear war but not before stepping right into it with a combination of lack of experience, bad advice, and tension between Federal services unconscionable and almost unheard of in our history.   It was a mess he and his JCS both caused and solved with the help of some very basic deal-cutting and face-saving on both sides.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:59
Hoover WAS big government, and while it seems impossible to know for sure....in my book it seems like the Great Depression was heading for another, albeit bad, recession, the kind that always happens (and always will).
Various policies made it worse/prolonged it.


Anyyyyyyywho: This is impossible to answer because JFK had such a short presidency, and when you get into it The New Deal legacy is kinda messy. Did it prolong a depression, or steadily fix one? Was the 1937 backslide proof we needed the New Deal or proof that it was a bust? Was the New Deal even enough to be effective??? Keynes wanted much more government spending.
Regardless of overall belief the New Deal did accomplish a few things like helping a housing crisis (with a program that ended up with a small profit) and started Social Security. That in itself was good but it spiraled out of control.
Just some stuff to research and ponder if you havn't.

As for JFK he just wasn't able to accomplish much in his time but he did push for tax cuts which later got passed, he spoke in favor of the Civil Rights Act which later got passed.
The real biggie is what would he have done with Vietnam? Sadly we'll never know. He increased our presence there at first, but later ordered the removal of 1000 troops, and he took a less militaristic tone overall. I want to say he would've pulled out of 'Nam but we just can't know.

After being a young, naive, easily dominated kid JFK really could've grown into a helluva figure. Shame he was iced by (insert 1 of 9001 possible people).
Ya know I never like to answer anything, just throw out my crap and hope to cause more thoughtCool


Edited by JJLehto - November 12 2012 at 20:02
"It's fine, luckily we're all English so no one will ask any questions. Thank you centuries of emotional repression."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:00
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:


Sense of humor dude.  Check into it.  I was just screwing with you.  Tongue

I thought pollyticks was srs bsns

Anyway, I see FDR's dismissal of the Constitution as somewhat necessary for the time and would not see it as a mistake.

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

 
I apologize for any perceived beration; I'm just a Kennedy buff, so ...  

He did prevent nuclear war but not before stepping right into it with a combination of lack of experience, bad advice, and tension between Federal services unconscionable and almost unheard of in our history.   It was a mess he and his JCS both caused and solved with the help of some very basic deal-cutting and face-saving on both sides.


But to play devil's advocate, would it matter how he solved it more than simply whether it was solved or not?
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:10
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

But to play devil's advocate, would it matter how he solved it more than simply whether it was solved or not? 
Well yes certainly problem solving is important in the presidency;  further, there is no doubt the Soviets putting missile launchers in Cuba was utterly stupid, provocative and unnecessary, and something had to be done.  You  simply can't have that kind of threat hanging over an entire coast.   It's just that the deals that were bartered could as easily been made before two naval fleets nearly nuked each other.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:13
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Considering JFK served less than four years and FDR twelve, it's not quite a fair comparison.   I like them both, very similar in many ways;  terrible health problems, wary of war, highly ambitious and forward thinking, put the people first, understood the fragility of life.




Well....as I said in my post, JFK seemed to be growing into all that.
To me he started off as, well not much of anything but a politician and rich kid...but the Cuban Missile Crisis seemed to spark a change (how could it not??) and he grew up and started saying f**k you to the militarists that held him. Also saying f**k you to his Daddy's people. As we know his pressuring of the mafia maybe was his downfall...

FDR did have a pretty populist streak, heh a rich man who seemed to hate his own kind and fight for the common man!?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:22
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

FDR by far.  He did a lot to get this country back on track again after the era of laissez faire economics led to the depression.  FDR restored economic order and helped ease the suffering of many and returned this country to greatness, until the era of Ronald Reagan brought it all crashing down. 

And before you start Rob Tongue, my parents lived through the depression.  They were there.  And I'm not really interested in right-wing rewrites of history.  Wink


"Back on track" means you are operating on the assumption that the country was "on track" prior to the Great Depression.

Care to elaborate?  Big smile
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