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The best ones have a immediate impact |
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HarbouringTheSoul ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: May 21 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1199 |
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And why would it be? In accordance to rdtprog's "theory", much of their music has made an immediate impact on me. |
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QuestionableScum ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Edmonton Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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It took me several listens to truly enjoy Bartok and Stravinsky, and I know it has taken several listens for other people. So while it may have had an immediate impact on you, I think for many it was not something that immediately connected with them. Therefore, it seems that just because something does not have an immediate impact it does not mean that it is forgettable. Also, the OP's theory made some comments about the melodic character of music, and as much as I love Stravinsky and Bartok, their music is not particularly melodic. Dissonance usually dominates over consonance in terms of harmony. |
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wilmon91 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: August 15 2009 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 698 |
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It's interesting to talk about direct impact versus gradual impact in music. From my experience I can't say that music having a direct impact is generally superior to music with a slower impact. Both kinds are good, and equally valuable as qualitites. The word catchy can be unfair. What I don't like is too much repetition. Pop music with a repeated short melody can be deisgned just to force you to remember it. When the catchiness depends on repepetition the melody doesn't even have to be good, it just has to be repeated enough times. It's an immediate, annoying impact.
But I have experienced both kinds of impact at the same time. When I heard Steve Hackett's Spectral Mornings, I really liked it at first listen. Very easy to like. It felt like an easygoing album, sounded nice, and put me in a good mood. But I didn't suspect the depth it had. With more listens it grew into becoming something more than just enjoyable and fun. And it has a lot of sophisticated stuff in it. Once I sat in front of the piano trying to play The Ballad of the Decomposing Man. I could only figure out the first chord, then I gave up. Spectral Mornings grew into something magical. But "Every Day", a hackett classic, is pretty easygoing with memorable melodies, but it doesn't feel like a radio song being confined to a format, it has it's own life with an original form, and free guitar soloing at the ending. Most important is that each song has it's own life and freedom in expression. I like a mixture of simple direct elements and sophisticated, advanced elements, because I like the idea of pop with concentrated meliodies and grooves , but also advanced classical related stuff which allows for the full range in creativity. Edited by wilmon91 - November 26 2012 at 18:06 |
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pitfall ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2012 Location: Essex, England Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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I can only say that the music which has stayed with me the longest, is music which took quite a few listens for me to appreciate. I'm sure that this is why very few of them are hit singles.
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Polymorphia ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 06 2012 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 8036 |
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The tracks that have immediate impact don't always impact people because of their melody or even chord progressions. Sometimes it can impact through sonic richness, form, or context within an album.
Many rewarding tracks or albums can be liked on second, third, or fourth listens. As has been said by many here, Tales from Topographic Oceans. I might add, too: Relayer, Kid A, King of Limbs, Thick as a Brick and countless others that may have escaped me on first listen. Not to mention the fact that Genesis has never impacted me aesthetically (yet), and a couple people (okay, lots of people) happen to like them here. ![]() You may like a song that impacts you instantly, and that's fine. I do too; however, if you say that instantly impacting music is necessarily better than gradually impacting music, or vice versa, we have a problem. By saying so, you have necessarily prescribed one mode of listening/appreciating over another (instant gratification in music is better than gradual gratification in music), which is very limiting to aesthetic taste and can cause one to miss out on a lot of masterpieces. Not to mention the fact that listeners mature and different music will impact them at different times. |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37331 |
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"You know what uranium is, right?
It’s this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things. But nobody talks about that." |
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progbethyname ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 30 2012 Location: DAC LAND Status: Offline Points: 6140 |
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This thread is so incredibly subjective. I can't say if a piece of music hits me hard the first listen, that it is all together definitively better!? No way man! Same goes vise versa. That includes any genre as well. If we wantbyo get into crazy semantics like categorizing songs that are better based on their genre cause it grows on ya quicker does that mean its better? No no no I think not, but is their a musical skill level difference? I would think so.
Let's bring out a fun scenario shall we. TEARS FOR FEARS. Ok they are pop/electronic rock group and we will compare to YES. Let's take a song from each band. For TFF-- Shout, For YES--Siberia which is the song that is most likely gonna grow on ya first to call it 'best' in this regard??? I DON'T KNOW CAUSE IM NOT YOU!!! This thread is way too subjective, but quite humorous Lol |
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Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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rogerthat ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 7491 |
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I neither write off music that doesn't have an immediate impact nor do I conclude that music that does is just shallow and fluff. Both positions are extreme and not very helpful to a person who wants to enjoy more music.
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Dayvenkirq ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10966 |
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"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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thellama73 ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Eclectic Prog Team Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
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It's a music forum. Every thread is subjective. If you want objective threads, go to a science forum or something. I feel like I'm going to scream having to listen to you idiots. |
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menawati ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 26 2012 Status: Offline Points: 293 |
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Varies a lot. Some things that hit me first time are still my favourites and other things I didn't like on a first few listens have grown to be favourites.
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They flutter behind you your possible pasts,
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost. |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37331 |
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"You know what uranium is, right?
It’s this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things. But nobody talks about that." |
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thellama73 ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Eclectic Prog Team Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
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This is well said. I find that Tales has a cohesiveness between the movements that is lacking in most other prog epics, and a large share of that credit does indeed go to Wakeman. It's sort of like the difference between A Beethoven symphony (the fifth, for example, in which all the movement's are built on the rhythm short-short-short-long) and a Mozart symphony (in which the movements are entirely unrelated.) |
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progbethyname ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 30 2012 Location: DAC LAND Status: Offline Points: 6140 |
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Think your right. I should lighten up a bit. ![]() |
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Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Gerinski ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 4083 |
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Basically "no" but a concession to "yes".
I think we proggers have our own perception of what we can find as "instantly melodical", which can vary across quite a broad range compared to people who have not been exposed to prog or jazz or classical music.
Many stuff other people might find unlisteneable will probably catch our attention on first listen, but what this stuff is depends a lot on what kind of music we are fond of, symphonic, math, RIO, fusion, post-rock or whatever.
So it's a difficult question. I would say a conditional "well yes, melody plays an important part" but we must acknowledge that the very word "melodical" is subjective, in particular for us proggers.
Personally I would also add to "melody" "harmony", frequently it's not the monophonic melody that catches my attention but the polyphonic harmonies, the relationships between melody and backing notes.
Much of the music I love did not get me on a first listen but only after repeated and carefull listenings, but I reckon that some melodies / harmonies got me from the first listen and have remained favourites.
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zeqexes ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 19 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1238 |
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I agree, although I do think that some accessible pop is quite good.
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tamijo ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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rdtprog ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Metal / Heavy / RPI / Symph Prog Team Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, Canada Status: Offline Points: 3118 |
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I have read all replies and while some are deploring the subjective matter of the thread, i think that some tend to see the things in my perspective and others not, which is the norm in every philosophical thread. Its true that the term "best" in a title could be misleading, but a title is suppose to create a "immediate impact"..., so pardon me this intrusion. I was only making a observation of how my relation to the music can take different directions, and only that if i force myself to discover new kind of progressive music that is more complex, challenging or adventurous, i also in the same time, need to go back to beautiful melodies that doesn't have the repetition of pop music.
While some of view can discover some new things in a song by repeated listening, that is not to me the impact i was referring too. I am sure that a lot of you know on a first listening if a song have a impact on you and will still have in the future, and again i don't mean that it's a pop tune with catchy beat and melody, but it could be a song that contains many movements and a strong melody and it could be a classical song with no vocals. What could be subjective is that the classical pieces that have a impact doesn't reach me at the same level as a progressive rock song. I don't want to say that a form a music is better than another one, but only that the best composers on any music genre are the ones who have the art of touching the audience with something in theirs songs that make that we want to hear their songs many times. It's like what we call here "The classic albums". |
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran |
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Moogtron III ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover Team Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10611 |
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That is one of the best examples why I don't agree with the theory of the OP. It took me some time to appreciate Tales, and now it's one of my favorite Yes albums. Same goes for some other albums, like Camel's classic albums: it took me some time to really appreciate them. I thought they were boring when I first listened to them. Still, sometimes I think the theory is right after all: sometimes I hear a song/album for the first time, and I think by myself that one day I might really like it. It's just not a matter of always.
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37331 |
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In that case I think you may be more *wrong* than I first imagined... I use the word *wrong* here in desperate need of another that more adequately conveys what I mean - I don't mean you are incorrect, because that is obviously not true for you, I mean that would be wrong for me and probably lots of other people reading this if that were our philosophy. Therefore it is not the generalisation implicit in the title or any explanation you've given. Many of us become quickly innured to songs that have immediate impact, and that is evident here in the misuse of that other word of contention - *overrated*. Bottom line is there is not general formula for what makes a classic album a classic album, it's not melody, catchiness, structure, subject matter, complexity, length or even who composed it (so no, I don't think the best composers are the ones who have the art of touching), yet it is possible that some classic albums some or all of those traits, and some that have none. No golden rules or everyone would be doing it.
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"You know what uranium is, right?
It’s this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things. But nobody talks about that." |
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