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Topic ClosedWho is your favorite second tier prog band?

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Poll Question: Who is your favorite "second tier" prog band?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [3.37%]
11 [12.36%]
2 [2.25%]
1 [1.12%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
16 [17.98%]
12 [13.48%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [2.25%]
5 [5.62%]
6 [6.74%]
11 [12.36%]
1 [1.12%]
1 [1.12%]
3 [3.37%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [1.12%]
2 [2.25%]
2 [2.25%]
5 [5.62%]
2 [2.25%]
3 [3.37%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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The Bearded Bard View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:05
I don't understand why so many has a problem with the term "second tier". It's about popularity and commercial success, not quality. GG is my second favourite prog band (and gets my vote here), but they're still "second tier", i.e. not as popular as "the big six of prog", i.e. the six most popular and commercially successful prog bands in the '70's; PF, ELP, Yes, KC, JT and Genesis.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:05
I choose Magma, their discography is of very rare quality! But it's still a merciless poll Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:11
Just noticed Ange in the choices... Man I love that band, so many classic albums, such as Au-delà du Délire, Émile Jacotey, Par les fils de Mandrin, Guet-Apens...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:20
Originally posted by The Bearded Bard The Bearded Bard wrote:

I don't understand why so many has a problem with the term "second tier". It's about popularity and commercial success, not quality. GG is my second favourite prog band (and gets my vote here), but they're still "second tier", i.e. not as popular as "the big six of prog", i.e. the six most popular and commercially successful prog bands in the '70's; PF, ELP, Yes, KC, JT and Genesis.

There is a German proverb: "Der Ton macht die Musik", meaning "It is a matter of phrasing". You can either say to your boss "Boss, you are a pretty smart person" or "Boss, you are not a completely dumb idiot". The first will make him feel pleased, the second probably won't, though both mean the same. Same here. Why not say "less commercially successful" instead of "second tier"? The latter sounds somewhat belittling. I used to be a professional translator, and it is very important for a translator to get such nuances, at least if you are worth your salt.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:28
^Why not let him say second tier? It is perfectly fine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:33
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Why not let him say second tier? It is perfectly fine.

I just explained why.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:46
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Why not let him say second tier? It is perfectly fine.

I just explained why.

SO DID I!!!!

Can't we be allowed to express ourselves as we wish? Please let us. Theree are many polls using this terminolgy already. Many reviwers use this or similar terms. The words are not5 offensive to the bands. get over your hangups and stop being a dictator.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:53
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Why not let him say second tier? It is perfectly fine.

I just explained why.

SO DID I!!!!

Can't we be allowed to express ourselves as we wish? Please let us. Theree are many polls using this terminolgy already. Many reviwers use this or similar terms. The words are not5 offensive to the bands. get over your hangups and stop being a dictator.

I give the dictator back to you. As to "similar terms": That's exactly my point; "less commercially successful" is such are similar term. Why use a term which can be seen as belittling? If I called you, for example, a "second tier poster" (which I don't), would you not feel belittled?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:53
Other-Triumvirat    Though i consider them as my favorite band, and the best band of all time, many would consider them second tier. And i have never come across anybody like me who considers them the greatest. Oh, well. Such is life

(Though if "second tier" is  about popularity and commercial success, then T'rat qualify)

   


Edited by presdoug - February 13 2013 at 16:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:56
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Why not let him say second tier? It is perfectly fine.

I just explained why.

SO DID I!!!!

Can't we be allowed to express ourselves as we wish? Please let us. Theree are many polls using this terminolgy already. Many reviwers use this or similar terms. The words are not5 offensive to the bands. get over your hangups and stop being a dictator.

I give the dictator back to you. As to "similar terms": That's exactly my point; "less commercially successful" is such are similar term. Why use a term which can be seen as belittling? If I called you, for example, a "second tier poster" (which I don't), would you not feel belittled?

In that case as the phrase is not known in this way you would have to explain it. And I'm not the dicatator..I don't want to tell him to change anything!!!!!!

Jesus Christ! 

f**k it I can't handle this stupid discussion  anymore.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:57
This second tier civil servant votes for the finest band of all time, Marillion, a first tier band who are a second tier band these days in terms of commercial success, but a first tier band in terms of quality.

Tears over tiers. Whatever next?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:57
Originally posted by SaltyJon SaltyJon wrote:

Lately out of this list, definitely Soft Machine. 
My pick as well.
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 16:03
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Why not let him say second tier? It is perfectly fine.

I just explained why.

SO DID I!!!!

Can't we be allowed to express ourselves as we wish? Please let us. Theree are many polls using this terminolgy already. Many reviwers use this or similar terms. The words are not5 offensive to the bands. get over your hangups and stop being a dictator.

I give the dictator back to you. As to "similar terms": That's exactly my point; "less commercially successful" is such are similar term. Why use a term which can be seen as belittling? If I called you, for example, a "second tier poster" (which I don't), would you not feel belittled?

In that case as the phrase is not known in this way you would have to explain it. And I'm not the dicatator..I don't want to tell him to change anything!!!!!!

Jesus Christ! 

f**k it I can't handle this stupid discussion  anymore.

I don't consider swearing to be any kind of an argument. And I never told anyone to change anything. You are putting words into my mouth which I did not use.


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Prog_Traveller View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 16:05
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Happy the Man from the list, Saga and Banco as well.  Not mentioned: Morgan.
Morgan weren't mentioned because they aren't second tier. THey might not even be third tier. Geez, if I included them I'd have to include A LOT of other bands including Greenslade, Fruupp and Curved Air just to mention a few.One band who I really should have included was Triumvirat. Oh well.

Those who want to see a big list of old bands and albums from the seventies go here www.progressiverock.com
Oh you wanna play hardball--  Gentle Giant second tier?  Bullsh*t; they're often mentioned in the same breath as ELP and Genesis.  



You can play any ball you want but you lose no matter what because this is my poll!!!Tongue

GG are actually more popular in prog circles than ELP are now but so what? That's not the point. I'm going by album sales here and reputation and over all popularity. Ask any regular guy off the street if they have heard of ELP compared to GG. Bam.

The thing is if I included GG in a top tier poll then I'd also have to include Camel, Marillion, Kansas, VDGG, Caravan, Focus, Renaissance and on and on. GG aren't much more popular or accepted than those bands even in prog circles. If you look on here VDGG have albums with more ratings than GG so ultimately GG get lumped in with second tier. Live with it. Wink

Anyway, no need to get flustered over this anyway since it's all subjective.

I do admit there's a thin line in terms of popularity between King Crimson and GG and GG and ELP or whatever but also between GG and VDGG and several other bands. I had to make a decision and since GG although somewhat popular in their day never got HUGE the way the big named bands did I decided to keep them in second tier. I could have put Crimson in this list too or even Dream Theater but I didn't. YOu can do your own poll and do things your way next time. Really it's not that big a deal.

As for Morgan, I honestly don't think they are anywhere near as well known as the bands I listed or mentioned. I will look into them though since apparently they put out some fine symphonic prog. Maybe you can do a third tier poll with them Druid, Greenslade, Finch, Egg, Fruupp, FM, Earth and Fire, Trace, Grobschnitt, Novalis, Hoelderlin, New Trolls, Le Orme, Atoll, Pulsar, Asia Minor, Shylock, Acqua Fragile, Comus, Supersister, Moving Gelatine Plates, Bubu, Area, Univers Zero, Granada, Triana, Kaipa, Anglagard and tons of other bands with apparently solid albums. In my view, Morgan fall alongside those bands as far as reputation(if they're lucky)and not in second tier. Anyway, like I said this is all subjective and all just my opinion so really no need to get upset about it.



Edited by Prog_Traveller - February 13 2013 at 16:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 16:37
I feel very comfortable saying second tier bands from a comercial/popularity perspective, even though VDGG, who gets my vote, is probably my favorite band of all the prog universe, so I do understand why people have to make such classification. By the way  I always thought/feel the big bands/first tier were 5 not 6 (excluding ELP)...
I look up, I'm almost blinded

by the warmth of what's inside me

and the taste that's in my soul,

but I'm dead inside as I stand alone...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 16:39
Originally posted by The Bearded Bard The Bearded Bard wrote:

I don't understand why so many has a problem with the term "second tier". It's about popularity and commercial success, not quality. GG is my second favourite prog band (and gets my vote here), but they're still "second tier", i.e. not as popular as "the big six of prog", i.e. the six most popular and commercially successful prog bands in the '70's; PF, ELP, Yes, KC, JT and Genesis.


Exactly!!!! Well stated!

Like I said, I had to make the cutoff somewhere and trust me it wasn't easy to do. I had reservations about putting GG as well as Marillion and Kansas as second tier and as far as quality goes VDGG as well not to mention Camel(a few of my all time favorite bands right there). So I decided that name recognition would be the biggest factor. To be honest GG really aren't quite that well known to the newer prog fan, or younger prog fan who is going to discover ELP, KC and the other obvious bands before GG. I didn't make the rules here so getting on my case about this is sort of like shooting the messenger. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 16:42
The big six could be: ELP, KC, JT, PF, Yes and Genesis. One could substitute Rush or even Gentle Giant for one of those. The big five or six is not something that's set in stone and is dependent to a great degree on personal interpretation.


Edited by Prog_Traveller - February 13 2013 at 16:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 17:03
I voted Camel. Great band, very consistent. 
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 17:07
Christ's nobs this is difficult.


But going by the letter I must choose Soft Machine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 18:08
Well I hesitated to put Soft Machine as a choice because in all honesty they are more like Jazz or fusion to me. I may as well have added RTF, WR or Mahavishnu Orchestra. Smile


Edited by Prog_Traveller - February 13 2013 at 18:09
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