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Topic ClosedWho is your favorite second tier prog band?

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Poll Question: Who is your favorite "second tier" prog band?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [3.37%]
11 [12.36%]
2 [2.25%]
1 [1.12%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
16 [17.98%]
12 [13.48%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [2.25%]
5 [5.62%]
6 [6.74%]
11 [12.36%]
1 [1.12%]
1 [1.12%]
3 [3.37%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [1.12%]
2 [2.25%]
2 [2.25%]
5 [5.62%]
2 [2.25%]
3 [3.37%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Prog_Traveller View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 13:44
Originally posted by irrelevant irrelevant wrote:

Let's do the next tier! 



You do it. I'm tired of this crap. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 14:10
Of King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, ELP, Pink Floyd, and Genesis, only one of these received virtually no radio airplay in the prime years of prog.  Genesis was as obscure to most people as Gentle Giant until well after Peter Gabriel left, and they became a pop band.  While there music was every bit as prog as the rest of the list (and moreso than at least two), I believe that would make them second tier.  Their popularity came in retrospect of their prog history.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 15:30
I assume first tier is top 5. Gentle giant and Tull will always be top 2 for me. 10 studio albums in the 70s each. Tulls 10 albums must be the remastered albums cos the bonus tracks are hugely important to their catalogue. The other 3 bands can be a choice of many bands I consider pretty equal eg camel, van der graaf, caravan, magma, yes, genesis etc

Edited by dr prog - February 14 2013 at 15:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 21:34
Other. Jade Warrior.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 21:39
After Jade Warrior,

1. Focus
2. Gong
3. Nektar
4. The Strawbs
5. Soft Machine
6. Camel
7. ...and so on
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 21:48
Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by zeqexes zeqexes wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by bytor2112 bytor2112 wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

VDGG and Gentle Giant aren't second tier Angry



I tend to think of them as second tier, where as bands such as King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, ELP, Pink Floyd, and Genesis (the big 6) would be 1st tier. Though I love GG and VDGG a lot more than some of the big six bands.

Anyways I'm voting for Camel, a band that is certainly in my top 5.


JT??? Sure they're good but really

It's not up to his opinion what's first-tier and second-tier, it's famousness. Tull are a well known rock group that are a lot more famous than Gentle Giant and VdGG, thus making them first-tier. I'm not at all saying that JT are any better than GG or VdGG, but they're just a more popular progressive rock band.


Tull has sold over 60 million albums. That's more than Yes, ELP or King Crimson.


Sorry but Tull have not sold more albums than Yes. You're going to need to provide some proof if you insist that they have.

JT only have one multi platinum album(3 x platinum): "aqualung." Other than that they have about ten gold albums. Yes have two multi platinum albums(Fragile and 90125 with 90125 being three times platinum). Other than that they have 5 platinum albums(including classic Yes and Yessongs). Of course all of those platinum albums also went gold.


I can't find any official source, but the highest number I can find for Yes' worldwide sales is 50 million, whereas Jethro Tull has sold more than 60 million, so it seems you are wrong.



SEEMS being the key word here. As you said you can't find any OFFICIAL source so until you can you can't say I'm wrong.

The numbers just don't add up. If you are talking US sales only then Yes definitely have Tull beat. Since I only live in the US any other numbers are irrelevant to me.


You have not provided any concrete proof to your assertions, and the numbers provided are irrelevant to you because they don't meet whatever slanted criteria you've cobbled together. The Llama offered the same numbers I saw.

You made the mistaken claim Tull has only one platinum album (Aqualung). Actually, they have two more: M.U. - The Best of Jethro Tull and Original Masters. You also made the erroneous claim they only have 10 gold albums. By my count they have 16 U.S. gold albums (inclusive of platinum):

Stand Up
Benefit
Aqualung
Thick as a Brick
A Passion Play
War Child
Minstrel in the Gallery
Songs from the Wood
Heavy Horses
Stormwatch
Crest of a Knave
Live - Bursting Out
Living With the Past
Living in the Past
M.U. - The Best of Jethro Tull
Original Masters

If you are strictly going on U.S. sales, then I suppose Yes has sold more; however, we are a worldwide forum and prog is a worldwide phenomena. In any case, I've proven my point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jethro_Tull_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_discography


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 01:02
I forgot all about Jade Warrior. I agree that they could be a second tier band. Come to think of it so could Ash Ra Tempel, Amon Duul 2, Can and Popol Vuh. You can't have everyone. I could have added more but they only let me put 25 on there. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 01:05
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by zeqexes zeqexes wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by bytor2112 bytor2112 wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

VDGG and Gentle Giant aren't second tier Angry



I tend to think of them as second tier, where as bands such as King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, ELP, Pink Floyd, and Genesis (the big 6) would be 1st tier. Though I love GG and VDGG a lot more than some of the big six bands.

Anyways I'm voting for Camel, a band that is certainly in my top 5.


JT??? Sure they're good but really

It's not up to his opinion what's first-tier and second-tier, it's famousness. Tull are a well known rock group that are a lot more famous than Gentle Giant and VdGG, thus making them first-tier. I'm not at all saying that JT are any better than GG or VdGG, but they're just a more popular progressive rock band.


Tull has sold over 60 million albums. That's more than Yes, ELP or King Crimson.


Sorry but Tull have not sold more albums than Yes. You're going to need to provide some proof if you insist that they have.

JT only have one multi platinum album(3 x platinum): "aqualung." Other than that they have about ten gold albums. Yes have two multi platinum albums(Fragile and 90125 with 90125 being three times platinum). Other than that they have 5 platinum albums(including classic Yes and Yessongs). Of course all of those platinum albums also went gold.


I can't find any official source, but the highest number I can find for Yes' worldwide sales is 50 million, whereas Jethro Tull has sold more than 60 million, so it seems you are wrong.



SEEMS being the key word here. As you said you can't find any OFFICIAL source so until you can you can't say I'm wrong.

The numbers just don't add up. If you are talking US sales only then Yes definitely have Tull beat. Since I only live in the US any other numbers are irrelevant to me.


You have not provided any concrete proof to your assertions, and the numbers provided are irrelevant to you because they don't meet whatever slanted criteria you've cobbled together. The Llama offered the same numbers I saw.

You made the mistaken claim Tull has only one platinum album (Aqualung). Actually, they have two more: M.U. - The Best of Jethro Tull and Original Masters. You also made the erroneous claim they only have 10 gold albums. By my count they have 16 U.S. gold albums (inclusive of platinum):

Stand Up
Benefit
Aqualung
Thick as a Brick
A Passion Play
War Child
Minstrel in the Gallery
Songs from the Wood
Heavy Horses
Stormwatch
Crest of a Knave
Live - Bursting Out
Living With the Past
Living in the Past
M.U. - The Best of Jethro Tull
Original Masters

If you are strictly going on U.S. sales, then I suppose Yes has sold more; however, we are a worldwide forum and prog is a worldwide phenomena. In any case, I've proven my point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jethro_Tull_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_discography





Sure. Why not. Smile

Pink FLoyd has sold more than Tull or YEs so what? Doesn't make them better. I like PF but they aren't my favorite prog band. Are they yours? Also, Genesis has sold more than Tull or Yes worldwide. Big poopy pants. I hope you are happy now that you have rubbed my nose in some trivial thing that I don't really care all that much about anyway. JT has sold maybe ten million more copies than Yes worldwide. Oh boy. Call out the search party. Get me some sleeping pills now so I don't lose any sleep over this. GOod for you. :)


Edited by Prog_Traveller - February 15 2013 at 01:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 01:31
Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

I forgot all about Jade Warrior. I agree that they could be a second tier band. Come to think of it so could Ash Ra Tempel, Amon Duul 2, Can and Popol Vuh. You can't have everyone. I could have added more but they only let me put 25 on there. 

This is exactly why I question the term "second-tier" if it only alludes to sales. Can is one of the most influential bands of all time, and Amon Düül 2 were quite influential too (without Amon Düül 2 Hawkwind would not be what it is, for example). Magma even created a whole new genre, under which 51 artists are listed (and they influenced other artists which are not listed under Zeuhl too, like for example The  Red Masque), so we have to accept the fact that they were quite influential too. But it never showed in sales.


Edited by BaldFriede - February 15 2013 at 01:39


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2013 at 15:10
I did include Magma in the poll though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2013 at 15:49
Magma
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2013 at 16:09
Good to see Gentle Giant is winning Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2013 at 19:39
Focus
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2013 at 20:17
My favourite in this list would probably be VdGG.

And I kind of think this whole debate over the use of the term "second-tier" is a little silly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2013 at 02:23
Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

Originally posted by ten years after ten years after wrote:

Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

Well I know. I hear you. But I'm going by the thought of if I asked some guy off the street which ones would they have heard of. The ones the average Joe would know about would be first tier. Plus many of these bands never got the attention they deserved. ANd before some of you say the average Joe would know Kansas that might be true but most people think of them as classic rock and not prog. Only us freaks know the truth about these bands. Tongue

 
But the average Joe would think of Genesis as a Pop band (or Phil Collins' backing band).



Maybe but at least they would know who they are. Most people would NOT know who GG are.


I was talking to some guy once. Or maybe I should say he was talking to me. Anyway, he said I was a "gentle giant." I asked him if he heard of the band called Gentle Giant. He said no and quickly changed the subject. Tongue


 
Not sure where GG get into this.  The point was that your reason for excluding Kansas from the first tier would also exclude Genesis.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2013 at 04:28
Camel.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2013 at 05:15
VDGG
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2013 at 08:43
Magma, though i think they are number 1 prog band of all times. 
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