The Role of Virtuosity in Progressive Music

It's a great advantage to bands (such as Steve Howe's excellent guitar playing in Yes ) but not really essential and as some bands have proven you can have lots of musicians with different knowledges on genres and sometimes they can click together and make great music 

I suppose my main question for the thread is whether you'd want anyone else singing and playing that...

And similarly,




Edited by TGM: Orb - May 11 2013 at 01:04

Does DUKE have virtuosity in it? I kind of think it does. It's a very accessable prog album...pop like at times.   

^ Why is it a scary thought?

^ Well, he grew up on RnR, so I guess that's wear he got the idea for the trebly tone and didn't go for something heavier.

dr wu23 wrote: rogerthat wrote: pitfall wrote: Could you please give me some examples of these frequent occasions when Howe's electric playing sounds jarring? I've never come across it myself. I find it difficult to accept that you have ever really listened to his playing! Eh, any number of his faster leads with Yes but CTTE if you want one example.  Please read what I said with context - though I didn't specify it, I was comparing his approach with Hackett. Yes, compared to Hackett, I do find Howe's electric playing pretty jarring, the more so as he gets faster while Hackett is very smooth and makes me oblivious to how fast he might be playing.    I was thinking about Howe's leads and his playing just yesterday and I agree with you that Hackett and others are much 'smoother' and more melodic at times. There are leads by Howe here and there on all the best known lp's by Yes that sound 'jarring ' to me also...but it fits somehow with their overall approach.

Maybe because it provides a good contrast with the otherwise 'happy' sound of Yes.  And it's not as if he is not melodic but something in the execution gives an effect that I find jarring.  Fripp probably sounds smoother while playing harsh stuff.  And it's not as if I find it terribly flawed, pitfall just quoted me out of context.

Gerinski wrote: I would say that we can divide the musical talents in 2 big groups: what can be learnt and mastered by hard practice and what can not be learnt, you either have it or you don't, and some have it more than others. Virtuosity in its wide definition is to me the set of everything which can be learnt and mastered by practice, and this includes not only speed but all the technical aspects of playing, expression, dynamics, precision, range (in instruments where the range depends on the player's ability such as several wind instruments), mastering of all the different scales and keys and transitions between them (which allow the musician to be strong at improvisations) etc. A musician mastering all these techniques is to me a virtuoso, and he will be able to impress any audience with his performance.

Having played classical music and studied its theory for some ten years (on amateur/semi-pro level), I think one of its greatest benefits to rock/prog side of things (besides the obvious stuff like knowing scales, time signatures, tempo changes etc.) is a real understanding of dynamics. It is easy (after practicing really hard for some years) for almost anyone to compose and play for example a fast, loud guitar solo based on scales and whatever. But to play the same solo with expression, producing every note exactly like you mean it should be, using a wide amount of different dynamics from pianissimo to fortissimo if necessary and not just one or two, that is in my opinion a big part of what makes a virtuoso player. I think this is an important aspect in almost any style of music. Many rockers don't even understand the difference between mezzopiano and mezzoforte (soundwise), let alone the more subtle aspects of dynamical playing.

Btw sorry if this was said elsewhere, I kind of got lost in this thread somewhere between pages three and four..

Virtuosity is a means to an end. If it is not present, the possibilities diminish greatly. Perhaps a computer can eventually play everything adequately, but that time has not yet come.

Gerinski wrote: Virtuosity in its wide definition is to me the set of everything which can be learnt and mastered by practice, and this includes not only speed but all the technical aspects of playing, expression, dynamics, precision, range (in instruments where the range depends on the player's ability such as several wind instruments), mastering of all the different scales and keys and transitions between them (which allow the musician to be strong at improvisations) etc.

Edited by JediJoker7169 - May 04 2013 at 04:44

Look at the humility on this guy's face during his chat with the audience (a guy considered by many to be a virtuoso in the blues world) regarding the company he is in.  That speaks volumes regarding what virtuosity is.  And listen to the band adapting from Eric's solo to Wynton's...fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvNIivHdy0Q


Edited by Neelus - May 03 2013 at 14:08