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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 16165 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 12:47
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

The aim of meditation is to silence the mind. I don't see how you could possibly achieve that with music on, much less prog music.



No true at all. Music can help access, like a tuning fork would, to certain parts of your conscientious.
Meditation alone is not based strictly on 'silence.' but then again, this is just from my experience only.
It works differently for everyone. :)
 
The "trigger" to get one inside, can be anything ... a tuning fork, music, words, chanting, just about anything.
 
The issue/problem with it all, at times, is finding the right wording for documenting and expressing what it was like and what you felt. Sometimes, that part is totally secondary to the actual feeling of "being there", and the energy and effort to explain to anyone ... most of which do not listen anyway ... is a wasted effort and you stop doing it after the first or second effort.
 
There are some excellent books on these, and the "different" ways this stuff works. Robert Monroe, calls it out of body experiences, but they accumulate the same thing, and he is very good at the talking point ... though I think people will get confused when he describes the earth's aura and its pull, not only magnetically, but also physically, and what it does for our minds and bodies. Carlos Castaneda, used some psychedelics, and later had a great joke about it ... "were the drugs necessary? Of course not stupid, we just had to shut you up long enough to get something done!" ... and a lot of people don't like don Juan's strength and attitude, but his stories and theories are excellent and "The Art of Dreaming" is one of the very best books EVER on dreaming! I like Tahisha Abelar and Florinda Donner, both from the Castaneda camp, and they are far better writers than he is! And their work resonates better with your physical space, than his, which comes off as too mental!
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Points: 16165 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 12:54

Hi,

 
The finding of an avenue for you to meditate is an "individual path". It only works for you. Sharing ideas and concepts, and what not, is (at times) frustrating, since what you say usually comes off as imcomplete, and folks have a tendency to doubt the veracity of the information. It's hard to describe something from another world or experience that has no "language" like ours does ... but there are a lot of little exercises and things we all can do to help us get there.
 
Music is a good one, however, like everything else, in the end, you have to find the box to get rid of the boxes, and that is harder. IF you understand that going in, you realize that music is but one way you can resonate with "your father" (as it is known biblically), and this is where things get tough ... people tend to mix and match ideas, theories and bad translations and more often than not ... stop!
 
There is only one path, and it has your name on it. You just have to get on it! Regardless ... but you will not be able to take cd's or ipod's with it! Thisis about you, the message, not the medium that tricked you into something else.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 8091 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 16:32
I read something about meditation that i wanted to share, that i found interesting.
        In meditation, you're not trying to "achieve" anything. Throw that out the window.
     In a sense, you are "letting go", like a heavy weight has been lifted from your shoulders.
          Don't try too hard to do something with it, just let it be.
       
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Points: 7752 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 16:36
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

I read something about meditation that i wanted to share, that i found interesting.
        In meditation, you're not trying to "achieve" anything. Throw that out the window.
     In a sense, you are "letting go", like a heavy weight has been lifted from your shoulders.
          Don't try too hard to do something with it, just let it be.
       


Beautiful post. A thing of beauty really. I agree with it. I love the philosophy of just letting go or let things be to achieve a higher level of conscience or peace with in you. :)
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 16:42
People meditate in many different ways and with many different goals.  That said, if you are aiming to meditate while having music playing, I would personally recommend Neu!
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Points: 7752 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 16:56
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

The aim of meditation is to silence the mind. I don't see how you could possibly achieve that with music on, much less prog music.
No true at all. Music can help access, like a tuning fork would, to certain parts of your conscientious. Meditation alone is not based strictly on 'silence.' but then again, this is just from my experience only. It works differently for everyone. :)


 
The "trigger" to get one inside, can be anything ... a tuning fork, music, words, chanting, just about anything.

 

The issue/problem with it all, at times, is finding the right wording for documenting and expressing what it was like and what you felt. Sometimes, that part is totally secondary to the actual feeling of "being there", and the energy and effort to explain to anyone ... most of which do not listen anyway ... is a wasted effort and you stop doing it after the first or second effort.

 

There are some excellent books on these, and the "different" ways this stuff works. Robert Monroe, calls it out of body experiences, but they accumulate the same thing, and he is very good at the talking point ... though I think people will get confused when he describes the earth's aura and its pull, not only magnetically, but also physically, and what it does for our minds and bodies. Carlos Castaneda, used some psychedelics, and later had a great joke about it ... "were the drugs necessary? Of course not stupid, we just had to shut you up long enough to get something done!" ... and a lot of people don't like don Juan's strength and attitude, but his stories and theories are excellent and "The Art of Dreaming" is one of the very best books EVER on dreaming! I like Tahisha Abelar and Florinda Donner, both from the Castaneda camp, and they are far better writers than he is! And their work resonates better with your physical space, than his, which comes off as too mental!


Well again, you touch upon my point with the so called 'tuning forks' or mind accessors. Psychedelics can be a key contributor to access or channel different parts of your mind. I really like the case study done by Dr. Rick Strassman in his book, DMT The Spirit Molecule. His findings are exceptional. Give it a read.
DMT is commonly used for meditation or communal with the dead/spirit world. It's true. I've done the most powerful psychedelics this planet has to offer, namely Ayahuasca and Iboga. You can be transformed and hurled into higher levels of your conscience very quickly like being shot out of a canon. :)
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Points: 7752 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 17:50
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:


Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

I always believed a goal of meditation was to allow your consciousness to explore or make discoveries by the intense focus on a single thought/mantra/candle flame/etc.  I'd find meditating to any prog with vocals way too distracting as I'd be focused on the words and their meaning instead of allowing the unconscious exploration which could (hopefully) lead to unexpected insights. 


 
That depends, since the voice is ALSO, an instrument ... but we have not heard many things in music that show the voice as an instrument, instead of thinking that the lyrics are more important than the instrument, and it must be what it is about, kind of thing ... it's almost like a child's story, and you come to believe it!

 

If you hear some of the vocal things in the ECM label, and some others, or hear the stuff with Khan (sorry, have never remembered his full name!), you will find that ... you don't get it ... this is not like a song, that we know ... and the main reason why folks won't listen to it a whole lot! It's so different, from the topical and repetitive pop music design that most folks do in rock music ... why? it's the easiest and you don't have to pay a teacher for it! It's easy to say, there is no apreciation to take it any further in their life, other than make more money. It lacks depth and soul behind it all!

 

Now, who, can we say, uses his/her voice as an instrument, and in many ways, you don't even hear the lyrics, and you already know ... that it's true! For me, a lot of Peter Hammill is a vocal meditation, and the other one is Kate Bush's Snow album ... that is almost pure music in the Hindu definition of it ... it just flows and goes ... it stops when it does ... and you don't feel empty, or missing out on something! You know right away, this is what she was looking for ... something that was not pop music, but was pure poetry, from beginning to end ... and there it is ... as progressive as any music has been for 30years ... and we don't even realize it! It's a perfect "meditation" and leaves you very quiet inside ... you wish you could do that ... with yourself even, let alone with a matey!

Must admit I haven't listened to any Kate Bush since The Sensual World so can't comment on her Snow album; however, t<span ="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba26, 26, 26, 0.296875; -webkit-com-fill-color: rgba175, 192, 227, 0.230469; -webkit-com--color: rgba77, 128, 180, 0.230469; ">he only two vocalists that I feel were able to use their voices purely as an instrument rather than as a vehicle to deliver words are Lisa Gerrard of Dead Can Dance and Diamonda Galas.  In both cases, I don't hear the words but react emotionally as if listening to a soaring David Gilmour guitar solo.</span>


Awe Dead Can Dance.      what's not to love? Very powerful, intense and Melancholy music all wonderfully crafted with various new age/worldly sounds. I gotta ask my friend, what's the album you love the most by them? Also, did you hear their latest 'Anastasis'? Let me just say that 16 years of disbandment was worth the wait. :)
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 7752 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 18:13
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Whenever i listen to any music, i empty my mind and focus on the music only, and usually don't engage in any other activity or even move when i listen. Sometimes i close my eyes as well. Is that sort of meditation? If it is, then depending on my mood, anything would suffice.(anything in my collection, i mean)
     Lately early Wishbone Ash have been really doing it for me.


Absolutely it is. Your allowing yourself to concentrate and focus on one thing while eliminating the outside world.
Music is that gateway. I don't move and I close my eyes as well. Its a great way to focus. I also like the use of headphones because that makes me feel far more immersed in the very fabric that is 'sound.'
:)
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Points: 472 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 23:14
Originally posted by The Mystical The Mystical wrote:

I have recently begun to meditate, and I like to meditate with music as it gives me a spiritual lift. I have tried with all kinds of albums, and so far my favourites are Glass Hammer's "Chronometree" and Ozric Tentacles' "Jurassic Shift".

Can anybody recommend any prog that would be good for meditation? Also, please feel free to share your experiences in meditation.

Peace!

Ying Yang


Recently discovered this San Francisco bay area five-piece group:

(The) LUMERIANS - "The High Frontier" is their latest release (2013)

Psychedelic/Space Rock style have  lots of keyboard meditative instrumental moments.

Smile
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Points: 43 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2013 at 04:31
I have a meditation practice. Obviously there are many types of meditation, and in some there is a sound focus.

My understanding of genuine prog music is that it is generally intended to cause some sort of intellectual response; progressive implies a challenge to the current, to the status quo. For this reason it would not seem an obvious contender as a meditation tool.

Just my opinion.
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Points: 43 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2013 at 04:36
Perhaps ambient music may be of use? The fairly static, long form soundscape compositions may be particularly suited. I'm rather partial to the works of Steve Roach. For those so inclined, he has an app which is to create endless soundscapes; it's called Immersion.
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2013 at 05:34
^Yeah I agree with the ambient rec.
I mentioned the Berlin school of electronics earlier in this thread, and even if the ambient "style" still were in it's pyjamas, there are literally 100s of records that'll have you spiralling inside yourself until you reach a form of zenith, where everything turns white and peaceful(I'm just relegating how meditation works for me here - I don't believe in recipes for the mind)

Albums that work for me include:

Klaus Schulze - Moondawn, Picture Music, Timewind
Tangerine Dream - Ricochet, Rubycon, Quichotte
Didier Bocquet - Voyage Cerebral
Anna Själv Tredje - Tussilago Fanfara
Redshift - Ether
Steve Roach - Empetus
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Points: 7955 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 14:42
Some people use meditation to test their ability to block out, ignore, or filter out the noise and chaos of Earthly life. Maybe meditating to some Tech/Extreme Metal would be more appropriate.

Personally, I love moving meditation--especially spinning like the Sufi whirling dervishes--and there's aTON of music that gets me spinning--gamellan, Magma, Steve Reich and Philip Glass, Krautrock, TD/Schulze/Froese, the Gordon Brothers & Buddha Lounge (Sequoia Records) or Ibiza/Paul Oakenfeld rave music, too. 

But, I agree with others who think the purpose of meditation is to find the "space between" life, reality, and stimuli.
   
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Points: 1455 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2013 at 12:09
Dave Bainbridge's solo album, The Veil of Gossamer, could fit the bill...
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Points: 7752 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2013 at 16:01
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

^Yeah I agree with the ambient rec.
I mentioned the Berlin school of electronics earlier in this thread, and even if the ambient "style" still were in it's pyjamas, there are literally 100s of records that'll have you spiralling inside yourself until you reach a form of zenith, where everything turns white and peaceful(I'm just relegating how meditation works for me here - I don't believe in recipes for the mind)
Albums that work for me include:
Klaus Schulze - Moondawn, Picture Music, Timewind
Tangerine Dream - Ricochet, Rubycon, Quichotte
Didier Bocquet - Voyage Cerebral
Anna Själv Tredje - Tussilago Fanfara
Redshift - Ether
Steve Roach - Empetus


I think those are excellent suggestions, especially Klaus's Moondawn. That is a pretty special album in electronic prog.
Big time. :)
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Points: 160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2013 at 04:16
I'm not into meditation myself, but I enjoy inducing a state of self introspection through certain sorts of music. Most of it has already been referenced in this thread, especially german musicians like Manuel Gottsching or Klaus Schulze. But a musician that hasn't been referenced yet and that I truly appreciate is Dylan Panek.

Best.
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2013 at 11:19
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

^Yeah I agree with the ambient rec.
I mentioned the Berlin school of electronics earlier in this thread, and even if the ambient "style" still were in it's pyjamas, there are literally 100s of records that'll have you spiralling inside yourself until you reach a form of zenith, where everything turns white and peaceful(I'm just relegating how meditation works for me here - I don't believe in recipes for the mind)
Albums that work for me include:
Klaus Schulze - Moondawn, Picture Music, Timewind
Tangerine Dream - Ricochet, Rubycon, Quichotte
Didier Bocquet - Voyage Cerebral
Anna Själv Tredje - Tussilago Fanfara
Redshift - Ether
Steve Roach - Empetus


I think those are excellent suggestions, especially Klaus's Moondawn. That is a pretty special album in electronic prog.
Big time. :)

Thanks. If you enjoy Moondawn, then you gotta pick up Body Love pt 1 at some point. Probably his most melodic album to date, plus it features drumming like Moondawn kindly provided by Santana drummer Mike Shrieve, who plays completely unlike himself, but it works.
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Points: 472 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2013 at 19:05
Originally posted by The Mystical The Mystical wrote:

I have recently begun to meditate, and I like to meditate with music as it gives me a spiritual lift. I have tried with all kinds of albums, and so far my favourites are Glass Hammer's "Chronometree" and Ozric Tentacles' "Jurassic Shift".

Can anybody recommend any prog that would be good for meditation? Also, please feel free to share your experiences in meditation.

Peace!

Ying Yang


This week I recommend this one. It's some of my favorite and best electronic music. He goes by the name "IASOS" (Pronounced "yasos").  I've been following & listening to Iasos since the early '80's. He describes his music as "Inter-Dimensional" that can be specific-applicable for spiritual healing, energizing, cleansing, inner-awareness, and of course, meditation. Otherwise the music is exquisite Progressive Ambient & World that can be enjoyed on its own.. Best just go to Google,  you will like his website.

                                      

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Points: 4591 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2013 at 23:28
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:


Must admit I haven't listened to any Kate Bush since The Sensual World so can't comment on her Snow album; however, the only two vocalists that I feel were able to use their voices purely as an instrument rather than as a vehicle to deliver words are Lisa Gerrard of Dead Can Dance and Diamonda Galas.  In both cases, I don't hear the words but react emotionally as if listening to a soaring David Gilmour guitar solo.</span>


Awe Dead Can Dance.      what's not to love? Very powerful, intense and Melancholy music all wonderfully crafted with various new age/worldly sounds. I gotta ask my friend, what's the album you love the most by them? Also, did you hear their latest 'Anastasis'? Let me just say that 16 years of disbandment was worth the wait. :)

Haven't heard Anastasis but my fave DCD albums are the 1st one "Dead Can Dance" (my CD also includes the EP "Garden of the Arcane Delights") and the live one "Toward the Within" (I also have the accompanying concert video).  I love the 1st one because they use a more standard rock instrumentation than subsequent releases when they go for more accurate period instruments.  Also really like Brendan Perry's solo album "Eye of the Hunter".
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Points: 19 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2013 at 23:46
I agree with the idea that there are many different reasons people practice meditation, and it makes sense that there are therefore many different practices.

My very first experience with music meditation happened when I was about 12 years old. I had been reading a book on yoga that described a meditation in which you do not listen to music, but you create a song in your mind. Not an improve, but an existing song. Sort of like visualizing a mandala but with sound.
I think I chose "Jet" by Paul McCartney because it was a big hit at the time, and I was a Beatle freak.
I lay down, closed my eyes and started the meditation. It started out pretty normal I guess. Now I either fell asleep and had a sort of psychadelic lucid dream, or I went into some sort of trance, but it ceased being "Jet" and became a sort of free form fusion thing with guitar solos, all accompanied by mostly purple visuals. (I should also mention I was not using drugs at this point in my life LOL) I came out of it knowing it was a fairly transformative experience.

I am for the last 20 or so years, a practicing Buddhist and a sort of lay Sensei at a local Temple. It is not a meditation based sect though, it is Jodo Shinshu (Japanese Pure Land) however I also practiced Soto Zen for many years.
It is true that in Soto Zen the practice is Shikan-taza, which is "nothing but sitting" No mantra, no visualising, no music....nothing to attach the mind too. I think it is a wonderful practice if you want a very pure sort of thing with no connection to concepts or any sort of contrivance, but it is difficult.

For me to use music now it would have to be some sort of ambient type of thing, because if it is melodic or structured, I immediately start figuring out how to play all the parts. (I earn my living as a music teacher so I am very accustomed to learning songs for each instrument)
Electronic music is good for that, but also some traditional chant music, and ethnic music for meditation, like Indian and Japanese music.  I find Sitars, and Koto's good for that sort of thing. Shakuhachi is popular, but I find it distracting sometimes.

 



Edited by Shutoku - August 09 2013 at 23:51
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