Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Suggest New Bands and Artists
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: XTC, Rod Argent, Garfield
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

XTC, Rod Argent, Garfield

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32837
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: XTC, Rod Argent, Garfield
    Posted: April 22 2013 at 02:39
Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by ExittheLemming

I think you misunderstand me. I DON'T think XTC should be in PA and those traits I listed above can be found in much Prog but don't of themselves qualify anyone as Prog. Does that make sense?

Honestly, I can't say that it does, but then I'm not running this site. It all goes back to the neverending debate over what qualifies as prog and what doesn't, and in the end it doesn't really matter. I've never cared much for pigeonholing and labeling and categorizing anyway. Everyone should just listen to what he or she considers good music, and I think just about everyone registered at PA already does that.
A Honda Civic has has many characteristics in common with a F1 racing car, but it's not a F1 racing car. Good music has many characteristics in common with Prog, but this isn't Good Music Archives.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
AreYouHuman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2013
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 258
Post Options Post Options   Quote AreYouHuman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 18:32
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by ExittheLemming

I think you misunderstand me. I DON'T think XTC should be in PA and those traits I listed above can be found in much Prog but don't of themselves qualify anyone as Prog. Does that make sense?
Honestly, I can't say that it does, but then I'm not running this site. It all goes back to the neverending debate over what qualifies as prog and what doesn't, and in the end it doesn't really matter. I've never cared much for pigeonholing and labeling and categorizing anyway. Everyone should just listen to what he or she considers good music, and I think just about everyone registered at PA already does that.

A Honda Civic has has many characteristics in common with a F1 racing car, but it's not a F1 racing car. Good music has many characteristics in common with Prog, but this isn't Good Music Archives.

You're right, it isn't. But you do have a General Music Discussion forum which gets a lot of traffic. This is what I meant when I said that everyone registered at PA listens to what he or she considers good music, otherwise would that forum be as active as it is?

I'm starting to detect a little condescension here. I hope I'm wrong.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32837
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 18:57
Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by ExittheLemming

I think you misunderstand me. I DON'T think XTC should be in PA and those traits I listed above can be found in much Prog but don't of themselves qualify anyone as Prog. Does that make sense?
Honestly, I can't say that it does, but then I'm not running this site. It all goes back to the neverending debate over what qualifies as prog and what doesn't, and in the end it doesn't really matter. I've never cared much for pigeonholing and labeling and categorizing anyway. Everyone should just listen to what he or she considers good music, and I think just about everyone registered at PA already does that.

A Honda Civic has has many characteristics in common with a F1 racing car, but it's not a F1 racing car. Good music has many characteristics in common with Prog, but this isn't Good Music Archives.

You're right, it isn't. But you do have a General Music Discussion forum which gets a lot of traffic. This is what I meant when I said that everyone registered at PA listens to what he or she considers good music, otherwise would that forum be as active as it is?
What people listen to and what they discuss in the General Music Discussions is not the same as suggesting those artists for inclusion in the PA or discussing them in a Suggest Artist thread.
Originally posted by AreYouHuman


I'm starting to detect a little condescension here. I hope I'm wrong.
I hope you are too, I gear my answers to where they are posted.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
stegor View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 23 2013
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 705
Post Options Post Options   Quote stegor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 11:00
Funny - XTC was the first non-prog band I looked for when I was trying to find the edge of the Prog boundaries as drawn by ProgArchives. They weren't here, but it was evident that it wasn't because they weren't considered, based on the depth and width and breadth of the map.

But it didn't surprise me. XTC showed up with punk, and were instrumental in dismantling Prog right along with the Sex Pistols. I noticed that PIL, Magazine and Shriekback are missing also, which suggests to me that it's not just the style of music that designates Prog, it's also the effect that the artist had on Prog culture. Never mind that XTC was influenced by BeBop Deluxe, The Residents and Beefheart, they were here to slay the dinosaurs.

So from that angle I can see why they could be considered Anti-Prog.

But by killing prog they rescued it. It couldn't go on like it was. Not with Love Beach. Prog had jumped the shark. XTC was like a stealth bomber. Or maybe a Trojan horse. They looked like punk, sounded like punk, smelled like punk, and kicked Greg Lake's arse.

But if you were paying attention, you might have noticed that songs like X-Wires, from their debut album, sounded more like Beefheart than The Sex Pistols. And then, when we least expected it, after they wiped out Tull, ELP, Yes and Genesis, they served up a full-on capital P Progressive Rock double album: English Settlement. Clever little pricks.



So personally, I can see how they shouldn't be included, and at the same time see how they should be considered the most important Prog band of the '80's. I don't know what I would have done without them.
Back to Top
tszirmay View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover Team

Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4010
Post Options Post Options   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 11:15
If you are going to suggest XTC, then might as well throw in Ultravox, John Foxx, Magazine and Depeche Mode! All are amazing bands with superb music but its just not progressive rock.!
Argent , the band did skirt the prog rim (Nexus, Circus albums) but Rod is more of a figure, rock icon kind of guy.Embarrassed 
Now Garfield was a super band from Canada with a majestically gorgeous album Out there Tonight, featuring 5-6 tracks that would bowl over any progfan   
"The more I analyze the human race, the more I love my dog" Mme de Stael
Back to Top
Guldbamsen View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site and Forum Admin

Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Dolly Parton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12702
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 11:19
Just because a band is progressive doesn't mean it needs to be here. By that comparison, we should have Wire and Pere Ubu in here as well. Progressive? Yes indeedy! Prog rock? No way!
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Back to Top
stegor View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 23 2013
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 705
Post Options Post Options   Quote stegor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:19
Originally posted by tszirmay

If you are going to suggest XTC, then might as well throw in Ultravox, John Foxx, Magazine and Depeche Mode! All are amazing bands with superb music but its just not progressive rock.!


Agreed (except for Depeche Mode)!

You gotta stop somewhere, and as much as I love a lot of the usual suspects that get mentioned often (including Pere Ubu) they just don't seem to belong in ProgArchives.


Edited by stegor - April 23 2013 at 12:20
Back to Top
AreYouHuman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2013
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 258
Post Options Post Options   Quote AreYouHuman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 16:05
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by ExittheLemming

I think you misunderstand me. I DON'T think XTC should be in PA and those traits I listed above can be found in much Prog but don't of themselves qualify anyone as Prog. Does that make sense?
Honestly, I can't say that it does, but then I'm not running this site. It all goes back to the neverending debate over what qualifies as prog and what doesn't, and in the end it doesn't really matter. I've never cared much for pigeonholing and labeling and categorizing anyway. Everyone should just listen to what he or she considers good music, and I think just about everyone registered at PA already does that.

A Honda Civic has has many characteristics in common with a F1 racing car, but it's not a F1 racing car. Good music has many characteristics in common with Prog, but this isn't Good Music Archives.
You're right, it isn't. But you do have a General Music Discussion forum which gets a lot of traffic. This is what I meant when I said that everyone registered at PA listens to what he or she considers good music, otherwise would that forum be as active as it is?

What people listen to and what they discuss in the General Music Discussions is not the same as suggesting those artists for inclusion in the PA or discussing them in a Suggest Artist thread.

Excuse me? Did you honestly believe I had the two confused? Can you show me where I give that impression? My point was that though there are different forums for different subjects, this is all one site and we're all here out of a love of good music.
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by AreYouHuman

I'm starting to detect a little condescension here. I hope I'm wrong.

I hope you are too, I gear my answers to where they are posted.

Can you point out where you’re not being condescending in either of your answers?
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32837
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 16:26
Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by ExittheLemming

I think you misunderstand me. I DON'T think XTC should be in PA and those traits I listed above can be found in much Prog but don't of themselves qualify anyone as Prog. Does that make sense?
Honestly, I can't say that it does, but then I'm not running this site. It all goes back to the neverending debate over what qualifies as prog and what doesn't, and in the end it doesn't really matter. I've never cared much for pigeonholing and labeling and categorizing anyway. Everyone should just listen to what he or she considers good music, and I think just about everyone registered at PA already does that.

A Honda Civic has has many characteristics in common with a F1 racing car, but it's not a F1 racing car. Good music has many characteristics in common with Prog, but this isn't Good Music Archives.
You're right, it isn't. But you do have a General Music Discussion forum which gets a lot of traffic. This is what I meant when I said that everyone registered at PA listens to what he or she considers good music, otherwise would that forum be as active as it is?

What people listen to and what they discuss in the General Music Discussions is not the same as suggesting those artists for inclusion in the PA or discussing them in a Suggest Artist thread.

Excuse me? Did you honestly believe I had the two confused? Can you show me where I give that impression? My point was that though there are different forums for different subjects, this is all one site and we're all here out of a love of good music.
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by AreYouHuman

I'm starting to detect a little condescension here. I hope I'm wrong.

I hope you are too, I gear my answers to where they are posted.

Can you point out where you’re not being condescending in either of your answers?
Do you really want to turn this into an argument?


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
AreYouHuman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2013
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 258
Post Options Post Options   Quote AreYouHuman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 17:53
Originally posted by Dean

Do you really want to turn this into an argument?

No, not at all. Just trying to find common ground.
Back to Top
AreYouHuman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2013
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 258
Post Options Post Options   Quote AreYouHuman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 18:03
Originally posted by tszirmay

If you are going to suggest XTC, then might as well throw in Ultravox, John Foxx, Magazine and Depeche Mode! All are amazing bands with superb music but its just not progressive rock.!
Argent , the band did skirt the prog rim (Nexus, Circus albums) but Rod is more of a figure, rock icon kind of guy.Embarrassed 
Now Garfield was a super band from Canada with a majestically gorgeous album Out there Tonight, featuring 5-6 tracks that would bowl over any progfan   

Hey, Ultravox! That's the ticket!

Actually, at one point I was going to suggest them, since some of the elements of prog are there, though it's clear now that it would meet with plenty of opposition.

I bought that Garfield 2-fer CD last year, and it was my first listen of "Strange Streets"; I was already familiar with "OTT." I know the vocals probably turned off a few people, but musically I agree it's definitely in the realm.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32837
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 18:20
Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Originally posted by Dean

Do you really want to turn this into an argument?

No, not at all. Just trying to find common ground.
Then I suggest you take these off-topic discussions to the General Music area and not clutter the Suggest New Bands threads. As was meantioned earlier in the thread - we prefer one suggestion per thread and that discussion be limited to that band rather than become a general discussion on what is Prog or about our general inclusion policy.
 


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32837
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 18:25
Originally posted by AreYouHuman

Hey, Ultravox! That's the ticket!

Actually, at one point I was going to suggest them, since some of the elements of prog are there, though it's clear now that it would meet with plenty of opposition.

Ultravox! already suggested www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38830&PN=1 
 
Rejected by Crossover soon after.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
stegor View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 23 2013
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 705
Post Options Post Options   Quote stegor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:26
Wow - that was interesting to look back at. Visage! Fond, poofy memories. I know we're going way off topic now, but All those bands that went down the Bowie/Kraftwerk/Roxy path like Magazine, Ultravox and Gary Numan - I absolutely love them as much as any Prog. But I started listening to them around 1980 precisely because they were NOT Prog. Add to that Polyrock, and some real obscurities like The Units, Experiments With Ice and Ceramic Hello. Then there's OMD. I don't care how hard you try, despite the fact that OMD did some incredibly unique and experimental music they will never be Prog (I just checked to make sure I wouldn't have to eat my words).

Of course OMD is not XTC, so let's get back on topic.
All this bickering has distracted everyone from my erudite dissertation on XTC. Now go back there and read it for cryin out loud!
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Motorville
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10861
Post Options Post Options   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 06:50
Originally posted by stegor

Funny - XTC was the first non-prog band I looked for when I was trying to find the edge of the Prog boundaries as drawn by ProgArchives. They weren't here, but it was evident that it wasn't because they weren't considered, based on the depth and width and breadth of the map.

But it didn't surprise me. XTC showed up with punk, and were instrumental in dismantling Prog right along with the Sex Pistols. I noticed that PIL, Magazine and Shriekback are missing also, which suggests to me that it's not just the style of music that designates Prog, it's also the effect that the artist had on Prog culture. Never mind that XTC was influenced by BeBop Deluxe, The Residents and Beefheart, they were here to slay the dinosaurs.

So from that angle I can see why they could be considered Anti-Prog.

But by killing prog they rescued it. It couldn't go on like it was. Not with Love Beach. Prog had jumped the shark. XTC was like a stealth bomber. Or maybe a Trojan horse. They looked like punk, sounded like punk, smelled like punk, and kicked Greg Lake's arse.

But if you were paying attention, you might have noticed that songs like X-Wires, from their debut album, sounded more like Beefheart than The Sex Pistols. And then, when we least expected it, after they wiped out Tull, ELP, Yes and Genesis, they served up a full-on capital P Progressive Rock double album: English Settlement. Clever little pricks.

So personally, I can see how they shouldn't be included, and at the same time see how they should be considered the most important Prog band of the '80's. I don't know what I would have done without them.
XTC killed prog? I thought the Clash had already done that. Slightly ironic then that Dave Gregory ended up playing in 2 prog bands and Andy Partridge has collaborated with Peter Blegvad.
 
And is English Settlement really a prog album?


Edited by chopper - April 24 2013 at 06:51
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32925
Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 07:07
Originally posted by chopper


 
And is English Settlement really a prog album?


NOWink
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
someone_else View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: May 02 2008
Location: The Castoreum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13299
Post Options Post Options   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 07:40
Originally posted by chopper

Originally posted by stegor

Funny - XTC was the first non-prog band I looked for when I was trying to find the edge of the Prog boundaries as drawn by ProgArchives. They weren't here, but it was evident that it wasn't because they weren't considered, based on the depth and width and breadth of the map. But it didn't surprise me. XTC showed up with punk, and were instrumental in dismantling Prog right along with the Sex Pistols. I noticed that PIL, Magazine and Shriekback are missing also, which suggests to me that it's not just the style of music that designates Prog, it's also the effect that the artist had on Prog culture. Never mind that XTC was influenced by BeBop Deluxe, The Residents and Beefheart, they were here to slay the dinosaurs.So from that angle I can see why they could be considered Anti-Prog.But by killing prog they rescued it. It couldn't go on like it was. Not with Love Beach. Prog had jumped the shark. XTC was like a stealth bomber. Or maybe a Trojan horse. They looked like punk, sounded like punk, smelled like punk, and kicked Greg Lake's arse. But if you were paying attention, you might have noticed that songs like X-Wires, from their debut album, sounded more like Beefheart than The Sex Pistols. And then, when we least expected it, after they wiped out Tull, ELP, Yes and Genesis, they served up a full-on capital P Progressive Rock double album: English Settlement. Clever little pricks.So personally, I can see how they shouldn't be included, and at the same time see how they should be considered the most important Prog band of the '80's. I don't know what I would have done without them.

XTC killed prog? I thought the Clash had already done that. Slightly ironic then that Dave Gregory ended up playing in 2 prog bands and Andy Partridge has collaborated with Peter Blegvad.

 

And is English Settlement really a prog album?


... and recently with Mike Keneally.

Not really, I think. But it is a very clever album, a fine example of a New Wave band that has lifted up its music to a higher level.
Note: another New Wave band, Talking Heads, is included in Prog Related.
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Motorville
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10861
Post Options Post Options   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:07
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by chopper


 
And is English Settlement really a prog album?


NOWink
That's what I thought. It's one of the best double albums ever made, end to end brilliance, but it's not prog.
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32925
Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:30
Originally posted by chopper

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by chopper


 
And is English Settlement really a prog album?


NOWink
That's what I thought. It's one of the best double albums ever made, end to end brilliance, but it's not prog.

Well I never thought it was before and I'm not going to start to now. 
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
stegor View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 23 2013
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 705
Post Options Post Options   Quote stegor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 11:51
Well, if English Settlement is XTC's proggiest album but still isn't Prog then XTC isn't Prog! Pretty simple.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.