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Topic ClosedWas prog actually popular in the 70s??

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 23:54
In the 70's, I never heard of the term "prog rock."  Yes, ELP, King Crimson etc. were usually referred to as "art rock" or "theater rock" or something.  

Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, The Who and even Jethro Tull were usually termed as "hard rock," with more of a musical foundation in the American blues.  Jimmy Page once bristled that Led Zep was termed "heavy metal" and stated that "hard rock" was the correct term. 

Regardless, it seems that many of these bands drew immense crowds at huge venues, whether indoors or outdoors, well into the 1980's.   The concerts were immense pot-smoking parties, crowded with legit hippies, wanna-be hippies, all sorts of freaks and straights....very tame, no fights etc.  (well, usually).  

The alternative side to prog would have been pop....Jackson Five, Cowsills, The Carpenters, Captain and Tenille, etc.  I think they tended to play much smaller venues and didn't have the draw that prog had.  If they did, I never heard about it.  

So yes, what we call "prog" was hugely popular in the 1970s.  And, it was damn fun too!  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 22:17
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

^I always thought he was kind of meh.  People like David Bowie and Prince were much better pop song writers and entertainers IMO.
Perhaps, but Jackson's athletic ability, musical restraint and taste were refreshing after the tragically hip artistry of Prince and Bowie.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 21:12
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by sukmytoe sukmytoe wrote:

If album sales had anything to do with the quality of music then I guess "prog" would be in trouble as it would mean that Michael Jackson's music was of a far better quality than anything that we like here. Heavy sales equates to selling many albums to many people and Justin Bieber will know all about that. You sell more music to musical airheads than you do to serious listeners as there are way more airheads out there who are interested in fads and catchy jingles as opposed to more complex music that you have to spend time with to get what it's about.
90125 and the like were never meant for the serious prog listener - they are aimed at the masses.

 
!!!

Sure, it's apparent that music aimed at accessibility tends to lose something in complexity. Look at what is #1 at the movie box office every week--a blockbuster rather than an art film.
My main point, though, is that record sales are a rough guide to whether you're connecting to your potential (not just assured) audience--significant when record companies were the big swinging dicks they were then. When a confluence of crossover fans (here meant as those not regular purchasers of your music), critics (to the extent they influence demand) and diehard fans all indicate that appeal through buying and sharing, I'd say quality has been achieved.
Since you mention 90125, I believe such a confluence occurred--prog fans alone can't account for the popularity it enjoyed. And I give Yes--especially Squire and Rabin--credit for doing what they felt was necessary to remain viable. After all, they'd been gone for 3 years. Had it not been the phenomenon it was, the band itself might not have survived 3 decades (!) since.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 20:58
^I always thought he was kind of meh.  People like David Bowie and Prince were much better pop song writers and entertainers IMO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 20:56
^ We all know MJ was an entertainer like no other--  at least most of us do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 20:48
Originally posted by sukmytoe sukmytoe wrote:

If album sales had anything to do with the quality of music then I guess "prog" would be in trouble as it would mean that Michael Jackson's music was of a far better quality than anything that we like here. Heavy sales equates to selling many albums to many people and Justin Bieber will know all about that. You sell more music to musical airheads than you do to serious listeners as there are way more airheads out there who are interested in fads and catchy jingles as opposed to more complex music that you have to spend time with to get what it's about.
90125 and the like were never meant for the serious prog listener - they are aimed at the masses.
 

Well, I can't think of any prog rock frontman who had/has even close to the sheer charisma of Jackson or who could dare attempt to pull off what Jackson did.  This is not to say Jackson was the greatest artist of all times as I certainly don't equate greatness with album sales but there is no reason to put him down just because he was popular.  Jackson brought music listeners across the universe together for the first and the last time since the Beatles.   And I wonder what do you have to say to the fact that DSOTM alone comfortably outsells Bieber's career album sales thus far by a ratio of 3:1.  Listen to the lyrics of Time and then to those of Don't Stop till you get enough.  They both hit upon the zeitgeist of their time, encapsulated their era in a few words, whether by intention or accident.   There's not a lot of music, prog or otherwise, that has that genius.  Even the 2008 re-issue of Thriller sold over 15 million copies.  It's not just a trendy fad and it's not going away.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 19:49
Originally posted by sukmytoe sukmytoe wrote:

If album sales had anything to do with the quality of music then I guess "prog" would be in trouble as it would mean that Michael Jackson's music was of a far better quality than anything that we like here. Heavy sales equates to selling many albums to many people and Justin Bieber will know all about that. You sell more music to musical airheads than you do to serious listeners as there are way more airheads out there who are interested in fads and catchy jingles as opposed to more complex music that you have to spend time with to get what it's about.
90125 and the like were never meant for the serious prog listener - they are aimed at the masses.

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 18:44
Here's to not liking things just because you were expected to. Thumbs Up

It was reviled, we were hunted down like rabid animals.

Edited by Slartibartfast - April 26 2013 at 18:46
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 18:23
Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

90125 of Yes's career was their commercial hit, but to say that album is more successful than Relayer or Close to the edge would be a mistake. We should be clear that on an artistic, defining moment in prog music's history those albums are the real 'successors.'


I'd still say Yes was at its most consistently successful in both commercial and artistic terms in the 70s. 90125 was their top seller, but was the only album to make the US Top 10 in the 80s whereas they had several in the Top 10 in the 70s - Fragile, CTTE, Tales and Relayer.


Nothing to say about your post. Just wanted to pass compliments on your GROOVY AVATAR - I was one of those unfortunate souls who loved BOTH ELP and the Clash simultaneously and was considered suitable for sectioning under the mental health act by both the Punks and the Hippies (no bad thing really, not belonging to a tribe...)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:31
Six years of reading the same old bollocks can have a similar effect.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:21
OK, who spiked Dean's tea? LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:01
Funny that when I was in high school we called it Prog Rock and I left school in 1973 strange how it was called different things in different countries by different people you'd a thunk that everyone would have called it by the name people who lived in the country that invented it would have called it but no that kind of logical thing just didn't happen I wouldn't be at all surprised if people in oh I dunno Antarctica or somewhere didn't call it Fox's Head And A Frock Rock or something luckily by the time Punk came along in 1977 at least the Punks knew it was called Prog Rock otherwise they would have had to have proclaimed death to the dinosaurs of the Underground and that would have really confused people especially commuters that the like who travel to work each day on the Underground or the Progressive Railroad as they would have had to called it or something and that would be plain daft or maybe just pointless because the could have gone by bus or perhaps bought a bicycle or just walked oh look a butterfly I like butterflys but I couldn't eat a whole one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 16:46
The early 70's was a magical time for music and there was no term like "Prog Rock" with reference to the music that was being made. Had PA existed back then there would have been a lot more prog gracing this site as a lot of music was then in fact progressive in that many bands were exploring and creating different territories in music. I would go so far as to say that in 1973 Grand Funk Railroad was progressive in every sense of the word as they were exploring new musical barriers as were many of the other Rock bands. Alice Cooper would have been "prog" back then without any shadow of a doubt.
We did have a term for music back then which kind of meant the same thing that "prog" does to us today - that term was "Underground". If I wanted Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath, Grand Funk, Pink Floyd, Osibisa etc I looked under the "Underground" category in many record stores.
Looking for "Heavy Metal" sections in record bars back then was pointless as the category only really came into being later on. I remember "Popular", "Rock", "Classical", "Jazz" and "Underground" being the different sections in the best record store here.
Music was a melting pot and it was an exciting melting pot back then and what you listened to almost defined who you were to peers in school etc. I remember that my then love of "Black Sabbath", "Uriah Heep" and "Yes" just about got me relegated to one of the lads in "that group of kids over there" -  who were a bit more spaced out than what the masses were.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 16:30
The most popular rock music of the seventies for sure. No wonder that there were so many prog acts back in those days !
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 16:25
If album sales had anything to do with the quality of music then I guess "prog" would be in trouble as it would mean that Michael Jackson's music was of a far better quality than anything that we like here. Heavy sales equates to selling many albums to many people and Justin Bieber will know all about that. You sell more music to musical airheads than you do to serious listeners as there are way more airheads out there who are interested in fads and catchy jingles as opposed to more complex music that you have to spend time with to get what it's about.
90125 and the like were never meant for the serious prog listener - they are aimed at the masses.
 


Edited by sukmytoe - April 26 2013 at 16:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 16:02
Regardless of which Yes album was their biggest seller, they were extremely popular during the 1970s.  Same goes for Pink Floyd (extremely popular in the 70s even disregarding DSOTM), and many other prog bands with more than one 70s album release.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:50
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I was just making the point that 90125 is Yes' biggest selling album. You can measure success in terms of sales but you can't measure success in terms of prog history, not objectively anyway.


Cool cool, but I believe you can. For many people to mention your album throughout prog history as being a staple of strong artistic merit I'd say that is huge success. Recognition is a form of success and you can quantify success, I believe, in this manner. :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:41
90125 isn't prog--it's AOR and it was the 80's (Asia, Invisible touch) and I've always thought 90125 --the group should be called Cinema.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:35
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

90125 of Yes's career was their commercial hit, but to say that album is more successful than Relayer or Close to the edge would be a mistake. We should be clear that on an artistic, defining moment in prog music's history those albums are the real 'successors.'


I'd still say Yes was at its most consistently successful in both commercial and artistic terms in the 70s. 90125 was their top seller, but was the only album to make the US Top 10 in the 80s whereas they had several in the Top 10 in the 70s - Fragile, CTTE, Tales and Relayer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:13
I was just making the point that 90125 is Yes' biggest selling album. You can measure success in terms of sales but you can't measure success in terms of prog history, not objectively anyway.
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