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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2013 at 01:10
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Oh no! Save us from the Prog hive-mind.
 
 
We Are the Porg
 
Renaissance is Futile

....resistance is futile...
Ameno!




Edited by Dayvenkirq - June 06 2013 at 01:10
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2013 at 12:25
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

[QUOTE=TODDLER]

It's so private for me. I don't want anyone to witness me listening to King Crimson's Islands. I don't want their opinion or reaction as to why Boz sounds cheesy singing "Beneath the winter waves" or their sarcastic comments about the music not fitting to the times we are now living in. A majority of people in society constantly place emphasis on that and it's annoying. What physically and emotionally fell into place on the day Boz recorded the vocals for Islands is timeless in it's own right. I must have a certain mind set to even hear it.  White Willow has the same affect lyrically and the listening pleasure must be private and isolated....because I've noticed most people cringing at the sound of it. It's as if you end up answering a thousand questions if you broadcast the music in your living room while friends are over, put into a position to defend it and judged. If my kids hear Art Zoyd or Univers Zero, they have an understanding that it is quite like Classical music and dismiss any reaction of fear influenced from the music. They realize that the sections which create a feeling of suspense sound like  my film compositions and they identify with the art somehow...even though they are too young to comprehend abstract thinking. When their friends sleep over and parents knock on the door to drop off their child...if Art Zoyd or Patricia Dallio are playing in the kitchen...it must stop immediately because if the parents hear the music they may find me questionable.

My greatest appreciation of the arts, is when i am alone. I find i like it best that way. I'm not totally against engaging with people when i listen to music, etc., but that full realisation of it is when i am alone.
Absolutely. I would not have it any other way. Maybe this is a large reason why I've been able to enjoy my own company all These years. Music listening has taught me so much. :) I'm with you on this one
 
There may be a reflection of self-pity inside musicians/prog fanatics who maybe experienced the 70's where the original introduction + development of this music was cemented in their minds. A progression of time passed where something unique was developed in your youth and in the present ..you don't fit into the scheme of things. More or less, we are dismissed and placed in the catagory of being a cult following for the music we like.. To deal with such an awkward and moronic position, one must weigh the balance of positive and negative. To be an outcast is a blessing. Isolation is very important to our lives and our progression to think things over and develop an honest brotherly understanding. A Prog composer will spend 12 hrs. straight composing and recording, give or take 15 minutes to use the bathroom along with the occasional 5 minute breather outside to view the nightsky. And...so it is an art. Your social surroundings/environment has a different but..negative force behind it. You are extremely limited with those around you who enjoy other styles of music , but seem to dislike Prog. What the Progressive rock bands were is never to be what they will become. That is my view over the last 2 decades with Prog fests not selling enough tickets and promoters going for broke. Ironically..this is what originally put us on the map. That part of history ..wiped out and the music continues with Neo-Prog and in many cases, young diverse progressive musicians are supporting themselves and fighting with a power struggle to survive.  This is the negative force. One particular idea of force was to form Prog tribute bands and tour theatres. We need the interest of wealthy individuals who are personally interested in paying our way. Booking orignal Prog bands 5 or 6 times a month in the monster cities of the U.S. instead of once or twice a month.
 
In the 70's a typical booking for a Philadelphia concert would be The J. Giles Band, King Crimson, and Humble Pie. Prog was on second and upon that week a wider variety of music fans bought the King Crimson album after being generally impressed with their performance. Bookings today are so compact with the choosing of a specific style of music genre and to a point where a Irish music festival is built around a theme, mentality, a cult following. I remember when Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention opened for Prog bands. Maybe if the promoters who design these concerts took on a few Prog bands, people might develop interest. Especially in America.  


Edited by TODDLER - June 06 2013 at 12:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2013 at 00:04
Originally posted by JoeFerguson JoeFerguson wrote:

Hey guys, wouldn't let me post in Get The Word Out section.

Would greatly appreciate it if you'd check out my Canadian Prog-Metal band that just launched!

Thanks a lot! :D http://www.facebook.com/ViaPulse

Hey, buddy.  I'll check out your band.  Send me a message over at The Prog Mind on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/TheProgMind) and I would be glad to take a listen and review it for progarchives as well as powerofmetal.dk where I'm a writer.  Cheers.Big smile 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2013 at 02:48
Ah, the power of the Prog Mind for self-promotion. Foie gras is just posh spam.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2013 at 07:19
No, I just felt bad for the guy.  No one paid him any heed.  I want him to send me a message so I can be more candid---you know, not under this assumed name.  I am NOT a superhero.Cool  I literally get nothing out of it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2013 at 10:59
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

It's so private for me. I don't want anyone to witness me listening to King Crimson's Islands. I don't want their opinion or reaction as to why Boz sounds cheesy singing "Beneath the winter waves" or their sarcastic comments about the music not fitting to the times we are now living in. A majority of people in society constantly place emphasis on that and it's annoying. What physically and emotionally fell into place on the day Boz recorded the vocals for Islands is timeless in it's own right. I must have a certain mind set to even hear it.  White Willow has the same affect lyrically and the listening pleasure must be private and isolated....because I've noticed most people cringing at the sound of it. It's as if you end up answering a thousand questions if you broadcast the music in your living room while friends are over, put into a position to defend it and judged. If my kids hear Art Zoyd or Univers Zero, they have an understanding that it is quite like Classical music and dismiss any reaction of fear influenced from the music. They realize that the sections which create a feeling of suspense sound like  my film compositions and they identify with the art somehow...even though they are too young to comprehend abstract thinking. When their friends sleep over and parents knock on the door to drop off their child...if Art Zoyd or Patricia Dallio are playing in the kitchen...it must stop immediately because if the parents hear the music they may find me questionable.

My greatest appreciation of the arts, is when i am alone. I find i like it best that way. I'm not totally against engaging with people when i listen to music, etc., but that full realisation of it is when i am alone.


Absolutely. I would not have it any other way. Maybe this is a large reason why I've been able to enjoy my own company all These years. Music listening has taught me so much. :) I'm with you on this one
 
Coming from a highly literary house (45k books of portuguese, brazilian and spanish literature), I find this strange. In essence, the SUN is out there, and if you want to get a TAN, you put on your shorts and go do it. There might be other people out there or not. It's not the issue!
 
I have no qualms about sharing the music with anyone ... if they know it or not. I'm not sure that all of these artists, and musicians for 500 years, did not want an inch of representation and appreciation from an audience, though, we know that many didn't.
 
I write for me! BECAUSE IT IS WHAT I SEE INSIDE MY MOVIE not because I don't like people and do not wish to share with anyone. I will share what I can ... and I DO, here, for example.
 
I do not feel threatened by anyone here. Love them all. Would gladly share ABC's with anyone, because they all have some details that are always neat ... and endup showing up inside your noggin as a part of you! There is no shame in that ... people do that to each other with or without sex!
 
The only issue, is that the "experience" itself, is an individual thing ... and hearing those old fat doggies coming out of the Shankar/Menuhin concert and say things like ... "all that improvisation, how can that be music?" ... taught me right then, that some people don't get it ... unless they are told ... they are social mongers, not creators and not important people for my life!
 
My only concern here, and yes, generally to be able to DEFINE what you and music (whether you play it or not), are all about ... and once you can see that, the words and expressions are easy ... but sometimes, what throws me off ... not really, but I find it nuts, is reading it here, and how some folks are not willing (or capable) of defining their OWN listening experience, beyong the beat they like, or a chord change that resonates with themselves!
 
And that's called "addiction"!
 
Well, I have an addiction to music, but it is not my life! My own poetry and writing is my own music! In different notes ... it is only personal in that it comes from "within" ... but other than that ... it is not something that I can not talk about nowadays, because I can and do here -- a lot -- sometimes too much it seems, but it is as honest and open and caring as I know how to be about the "art" of it all ... it's not something you "dominate" and "demand" from ... it's something that just happens and you are either ready for it, or NOT!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2013 at 16:21
Seems to me it's all important.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2013 at 16:24
Anyone listen to T's Psychoanorexia yet? Some major philosophy and poetry in the lyrics of that album. Quite dense actually. :)

Give it a spin guys. It's great. :)
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2013 at 09:45
Originally posted by Second Life Syndrome Second Life Syndrome wrote:

How important are the philosophies and ideas in prog to you?  I find more and more that I often appreciate the lyrical message more than the music, at least at first.  The lyrical content often opens up the door for me to fall in love with the music!  One example: Riversea's "Out of an Ancient World".  This album is a masterpiece in my opinion, but the philosophy is what gripped me at first.  Truly, prog is music for thinking men!
If not, share your feelings about this topic!


I have always felt Prog to be music & literature combined; and I use the word "literature" here to define a style of lyric writing that included literary references, philosophy, scifi, fantasy, spirituality, and even political and social commentary. A style of music with a unique duality, with its own body & spirit, some of it good, some of it not so good. In my case I'm going to use Genesis (Gabriel-Hackett era) as an example, (Now I'm aware we all have our favorite(s)), because Genesis was a storytelling  band combined with great music, and they were one of the best at it.

At the time, ('70's) I was really into English folklore, William Blake, Tolkien, Greek mythology, some scfi, to name just a few. What appealed to me was discovering some of these references and influences in their music and I was hooked. At the same time there was an element of irony with a light  humor that kept me sitting there entertained and still listening. Now, sorry, I didn't mean to get all "high-brow" about this, but it was the first time I had found a musical mindset that coincided or balanced out with mine with all the elements mentioned above. Of course there were other bands & artists that fell into place for me. And if there is such a thing as a Prog Mind then that's when I discovered mine. There was no going back.

Smile


- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2013 at 14:54

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Everyone assumes that philosophy does nothing but good, yet there is little evidence of that. In its basic form, philosophy does nothing and gives us nothing, it has never produced anything of value, for every philosophical thought there is an counter train of thought that states the opposite view. One man's philosophical panacea is another man's anathema.


You seem to be confusing philosophies with philosophy. while I might agree that fully formed philoshopies of life are little better than religions, the actual job of modern philosophers is to think about and pose questions about the human condition, human behavior, etc. this is usually no longer done in a vacuum, with philosophers dialoging with socialogists, pyschiatrists, neurologists, etc. Much of this if done well, can lead to intersting thought experiments which can then lead to actual experiments that lead to new facts about the humn brain or human behavior.

The Stanford prison experiment is a perfect example. Basically we now understand how nazis are made. 

Philosopher musings on consciousness have led to experiemnts on change blindness, human memory capacity, etc, etc which have lead to new factual knowledge about how the brain works. 

So, even if you found the study of major philosophies of thought to be a complete waste of time for yourself, trying to make out that science has not advanced in some small part due to philosophy isn't really a believable proposition. Sure, if you are a nillist you can rant about mankind being doomed to repeat its mistakes over and over, but that's a cop out on the question of whether philosophy as ever contributed to the store of human knowledge. It has.  


Edited by warrplayer - August 21 2013 at 14:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2013 at 17:12
Originally posted by warrplayer warrplayer wrote:


Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Everyone assumes that philosophy does nothing but good, yet there is little evidence of that. In its basic form, philosophy does nothing and gives us nothing, it has never produced anything of value, for every philosophical thought there is an counter train of thought that states the opposite view. One man's philosophical panacea is another man's anathema.


You seem to be confusing philosophies with philosophy. while I might agree that fully formed philoshopies of life are little better than religions, the actual job of modern philosophers is to think about and pose questions about the human condition, human behavior, etc. this is usually no longer done in a vacuum, with philosophers dialoging with socialogists, pyschiatrists, neurologists, etc. Much of this if done well, can lead to intersting thought experiments which can then lead to actual experiments that lead to new facts about the humn brain or human behavior.
Nope. I'm pretty sure I know the difference between a philosophy and philosophy to avoid such confusion, but you seem to know me better than I do.
 
So, to paraphrase the drummer joke - a philosopher is someone who hangs around with scientists.
 
Originally posted by warrplayer warrplayer wrote:


The Stanford prison experiment is a perfect example. Basically we now understand how nazis are made. 
Except that's psychology not philosophy and it does not show how nazis are made and from a scientific point of view it was a flawed experiment. But that's psychology for you.
Originally posted by warrplayer warrplayer wrote:


Philosopher musings on consciousness have led to experiemnts on change blindness, human memory capacity, etc, etc which have lead to new factual knowledge about how the brain works. 
Again, psychology rather than philosophy.
Originally posted by warrplayer warrplayer wrote:

So, even if you found the study of major philosophies of thought to be a complete waste of time for yourself, trying to make out that science has not advanced in some small part due to philosophy isn't really a believable proposition. Sure, if you are a nillist you can rant about mankind being doomed to repeat its mistakes over and over, but that's a cop out on the question of whether philosophy as ever contributed to the store of human knowledge. It has.  
Sorry, What is a nillist?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2013 at 17:26
Sorry, What is a nillist?


Someone who doesn't recognize a misspelling. : )
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2013 at 17:30
Originally posted by warrplayer warrplayer wrote:

Sorry, What is a nillist?


Someone who doesn't recognize a misspelling. : )
Embarrassed I'm dyslexic, I wasn't picking you up on spelling. I have never bothered to remember what a nihilist is as it is a peice of information that serves no purpose.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2013 at 17:38
Well, while I agree with you whole heartedly about the ultimate pointlessness of human endeavor, my point was that philosophers do engage with scientists now days and this leads to verifiable experiments. You can go through any examples I provide and say, well, that is neurology, or that is psycology. But, if the experiemnt came about because of musings between a philosophy major and a neurologist then I stand by my general ascertion that philosophy can ultimately lead to greater human knowledge. Are you thinking if we went back in time and kept assasinating Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle that when we returned to the present we would find the world just as scientificly advanced as it currently is?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2013 at 18:26
Originally posted by warrplayer warrplayer wrote:

Well, while I agree with you whole heartedly about the ultimate pointlessness of human endeavor, my point was that philosophers do engage with scientists now days and this leads to verifiable experiments. You can go through any examples I provide and say, well, that is neurology, or that is psycology. But, if the experiemnt came about because of musings between a philosophy major and a neurologist then I stand by my general ascertion that philosophy can ultimately lead to greater human knowledge. Are you thinking if we went back in time and kept assasinating Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle that when we returned to the present we would find the world just as scientificly advanced as it currently is?
Unless you give an example of one such philosophy major then I cannot comment, evidence trumps hearsay.
 
In the days of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle philosophy covered everything - all science, mathematics, astronomy, astrology, alchemy, biology, physics, geology, physiology, psycology, sociology, music, poetry (etc) - all fell under the umberella of philosophy (philo=loving; sophia=wisdom/knowledge), it was only after the 16th century that we started to seperate out this "love of knowledge" into seperate and distinct disciplines, and in doing so created philosophy as idle pastime where it adopted a more rigid definition regarding contemplation about existence and knowledge and ethics. If we (hyperthetically) could irradicate that particular kind of "musing" from Socrates at least, he may have lived longer and given us more. If we form a different list of ancient Greeks - say Aristotle, Pythagoras and Archimedes - then philosophy (as the seperate discipline of the post-16th century) is of less importance compared to the physical sciences (ie after Aristotle). So the answer to your hyperthetical sage assasination question is probably "yes".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2013 at 18:25
Lol. Nihilism? A person who rejects all religious principals and believes earnestly with extream skepticism all philosophical theories are obsolete. Dean, could this be you?

Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2013 at 19:13
I am definitely more of a music guy than a lyric guy, and for most music I seldom take the time to figure out what is being said. In fact there are for example Beatle lyrics I've sung for 40 years I never really thought about the meaning of. For me they are sort of like an instrument, and the sound of the word is musically more important than the meaning.

Now a curious exception for me is the lyrics of Jon Anderson. His I paid more attention to and did try to decipher meaning from. Maybe because his lyrics are so strange that sort of like a Zen koan, they challenged me.

I am another who was introduced to Paramansa Yogananda largely through TFTO.  TFTO opened my mind musically, and the idea it was based on a footnote in Autobiography of a Yogi was enough for me to get a copy. 
This lead to becoming vegetarian, giving up drugs, taking up meditation, and the beginning of my spiritual journey in life.
It was all timing. If I encountered Yogananda today I wouldn't  be terribly impressed, but it was the perfect vehicle for me at the time. Today I am a Buddhist and have been for 20 or so years (Jodo Shinshu with a large Zen influence) though I do still see a one-ness in the basic teachings of religions...in fact I think of religion much like language and music and art...different cultures and epochs have their own versions which serve the same purpose. 
The problems arise when people start taking myths too literally and insisting any view other than theirs is wrong.

Anyway, in my case I cannot say that a song changed my life, though in a very real way TFTO did, in that it introduced me to really progressive music, and more deeply introduced me to Eastern spirituality.  TFTO was my gateway drug. LOL

Anyway mostly I don't pay too much attention to lyrics, but to the sounds of the vocals. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2013 at 19:19
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Lol. Nihilism? A person who rejects all religious principals and believes earnestly with extream skepticism all philosophical theories are obsolete. Dean, could this be you?



Hahaha... scathing reply incoming in 3, 2, 1...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2013 at 19:27
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Lol. Nihilism? A person who rejects all religious principals and believes earnestly with extream skepticism all philosophical theories are obsolete. Dean, could this be you?

Nah, I absolutely believe that human existence has value (but no meaning). Having read up on nihilism since, they strike me as being miserable buggers and I'm the diametric opposite of miserable.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2013 at 20:16
Originally posted by bonestorm bonestorm wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Lol. Nihilism? A person who rejects all religious principals and believes earnestly with extream skepticism all philosophical theories are obsolete. Dean, could this be you?

Hahaha... scathing reply incoming in 3, 2, 1...


Hey ThrillHouse!! Speaking of philosophical principals, I meant to tell you that I really enjoyed your album. The story is so compelling....it starts with a hand....then the rest of the human vessel becomes a mindless, memory-less drone enslaved to a company. Wooooo 110 years old he will be one day. Also, pretty sad when Jane walks in and he doesn't know who she is. :( Great guitar as well to capture that moment. Nailed it! I liked man. You should be proud of your sound you create. I find it is highly agreeable with me. Thanks so much. ;)
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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