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silverpot 
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 Posted: September 12 2013 at 14:37 |
 octopus-4 wrote:
Am I wrong or On The Run, The Great Gig In The Sky and Any Colour You Like are the last instrumentals released by PF if we don't consider the intro tracks of the last two albums? |
Yeah you forgot the mighty Marooned.
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Dellinger
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Posted: September 12 2013 at 18:40 |
silverpot wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
Am I wrong or On The Run, The Great Gig In The Sky and Any Colour You Like are the last instrumentals released by PF if we don't consider the intro tracks of the last two albums? |
Yeah you forgot the mighty Marooned. |
Yeah, the Mighty Marooned. I really love that song. However, there's also "Terminal Frost", from the previous album, which I really like a lot too, and "Is there anybody out there?" on The Wall.
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Polymorphia
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Posted: September 12 2013 at 18:48 |
richardh wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
One of my favorite albums ever. It made use of stereo to fill the sonic space, something that had not previously been accomplished. The album was something way bigger than the 10 tracks of which it was comprised.
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I simply don't believe the claim in that statement I have highlighted. You would need to explain that to me. Why would it be such a leap from say what ELP were doing on Tarkus a couple of years earlier?
For me its a collection of good songs that were commercial enough to draw in those that didn't want anything too experimental. There is that with brilliant but simple album cover that suggested something very deep and intellectual. Conceptually it was broad enough to survive scrutiny and not too clever that it would fly over peoples heads.
On The Run was the only real stab at anything that I would regard as experimentation. However electronic innovation in music was already well under way especially when you consider Pete Townsend's Lighthouse Project and Tangerine Dream and the other German pioneers.It wasn't that new.
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Honestly, I'm surprised you use ELP, of all bands, as an example. Of any prog band, the only one that came near to accomplishing what Floyd did was Yes. And notice I say "accomplish." The concept of filling sonic space refers to use and understanding of overtones and their role in the orchestration of a piece. I shouldn't say it hadn't been attempted on some scale before (although I'm still surprised that you suggested ELP), but DSOTM showed an intuitiveness to sound that the other prog artists didn't have. Sounds were panned to just the right place, instruments covered just the right parts of the sonic spectrum, things were faded in at just the right rate. ELP didn't do anything like this that I know of.
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octopus-4
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Posted: September 12 2013 at 23:13 |
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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The.Crimson.King
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 00:40 |
Polymorphia wrote:
The concept of filling sonic space refers to use and understanding of overtones and their role in the orchestration of a piece. I shouldn't say it hadn't been attempted on some scale before (although I'm still surprised that you suggested ELP), but DSOTM showed an intuitiveness to sound that the other prog artists didn't have. Sounds were panned to just the right place, instruments covered just the right parts of the sonic spectrum, things were faded in at just the right rate. ELP didn't do anything like this that I know of.
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I would point out that before producing DSOTM Alan Parsons began his career working with the producer who pioneered those sonic techniques and how to get the most out of stereo separation...George Martin 
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26171
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 01:31 |
Polymorphia wrote:
richardh wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
One of my favorite albums ever. It made use of stereo to fill the sonic space, something that had not previously been accomplished. The album was something way bigger than the 10 tracks of which it was comprised.
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I simply don't believe the claim in that statement I have highlighted. You would need to explain that to me. Why would it be such a leap from say what ELP were doing on Tarkus a couple of years earlier?
For me its a collection of good songs that were commercial enough to draw in those that didn't want anything too experimental. There is that with brilliant but simple album cover that suggested something very deep and intellectual. Conceptually it was broad enough to survive scrutiny and not too clever that it would fly over peoples heads.
On The Run was the only real stab at anything that I would regard as experimentation. However electronic innovation in music was already well under way especially when you consider Pete Townsend's Lighthouse Project and Tangerine Dream and the other German pioneers.It wasn't that new.
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Honestly, I'm surprised you use ELP, of all bands, as an example. Of any prog band, the only one that came near to accomplishing what Floyd did was Yes.
And notice I say "accomplish." The concept of filling sonic space refers to use and understanding of overtones and their role in the orchestration of a piece. I shouldn't say it hadn't been attempted on some scale before (although I'm still surprised that you suggested ELP), but DSOTM showed an intuitiveness to sound that the other prog artists didn't have. Sounds were panned to just the right place, instruments covered just the right parts of the sonic spectrum, things were faded in at just the right rate. ELP didn't do anything like this that I know of.
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Tarkus always sounded amazing on the headphones and Offord's engineering skills were legendary. There seems to be an incredible mythology that surrounds DSOTM .I trust my ears first and nothing else second.
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Polymorphia
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Joined: November 06 2012
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 08:48 |
richardh wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
richardh wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
One of my favorite albums ever. It made use of stereo to fill the sonic space, something that had not previously been accomplished. The album was something way bigger than the 10 tracks of which it was comprised.
|
I simply don't believe the claim in that statement I have highlighted. You would need to explain that to me. Why would it be such a leap from say what ELP were doing on Tarkus a couple of years earlier?
For me its a collection of good songs that were commercial enough to draw in those that didn't want anything too experimental. There is that with brilliant but simple album cover that suggested something very deep and intellectual. Conceptually it was broad enough to survive scrutiny and not too clever that it would fly over peoples heads.
On The Run was the only real stab at anything that I would regard as experimentation. However electronic innovation in music was already well under way especially when you consider Pete Townsend's Lighthouse Project and Tangerine Dream and the other German pioneers.It wasn't that new.
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Honestly, I'm surprised you use ELP, of all bands, as an example. Of any prog band, the only one that came near to accomplishing what Floyd did was Yes.
And notice I say "accomplish." The concept of filling sonic space refers to use and understanding of overtones and their role in the orchestration of a piece. I shouldn't say it hadn't been attempted on some scale before (although I'm still surprised that you suggested ELP), but DSOTM showed an intuitiveness to sound that the other prog artists didn't have. Sounds were panned to just the right place, instruments covered just the right parts of the sonic spectrum, things were faded in at just the right rate. ELP didn't do anything like this that I know of.
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Tarkus always sounded amazing on the headphones and Offord's engineering skills were legendary. There seems to be an incredible mythology that surrounds DSOTM .I trust my ears first and nothing else second. |
I do too. That's exactly why I'm questioning Tarkus.  Not to say that the mix on Tarkus was bad, but it wasn't the same thing at all. It was merely meant to accommodate the band's performance. It did that well, but it didn't do much "filling" of the type I've been talking about.
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Stool Man
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Joined: January 30 2007
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 11:50 |
octopus-4 wrote:
Am I wrong or On The Run, The Great Gig In The Sky and Any Colour You Like are the last instrumentals released by PF if we don't consider the intro tracks of the last two albums? |
"The Last Few Bricks" wasn't released until 2000. The 2011 reissues of DSOTM & WYWH included as bonus tracks a couple of pieces from the abandoned Household Objects project. Therefore they were the last instrumentals released.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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silverpot
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 13:40 |
Polymorphia wrote:
richardh wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
richardh wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
One of my favorite albums ever. It made use of stereo to fill the sonic space, something that had not previously been accomplished. The album was something way bigger than the 10 tracks of which it was comprised.
|
I simply don't believe the claim in that statement I have highlighted. You would need to explain that to me. Why would it be such a leap from say what ELP were doing on Tarkus a couple of years earlier?
For me its a collection of good songs that were commercial enough to draw in those that didn't want anything too experimental. There is that with brilliant but simple album cover that suggested something very deep and intellectual. Conceptually it was broad enough to survive scrutiny and not too clever that it would fly over peoples heads.
On The Run was the only real stab at anything that I would regard as experimentation. However electronic innovation in music was already well under way especially when you consider Pete Townsend's Lighthouse Project and Tangerine Dream and the other German pioneers.It wasn't that new.
|
Honestly, I'm surprised you use ELP, of all bands, as an example. Of any prog band, the only one that came near to accomplishing what Floyd did was Yes.
And notice I say "accomplish." The concept of filling sonic space refers to use and understanding of overtones and their role in the orchestration of a piece. I shouldn't say it hadn't been attempted on some scale before (although I'm still surprised that you suggested ELP), but DSOTM showed an intuitiveness to sound that the other prog artists didn't have. Sounds were panned to just the right place, instruments covered just the right parts of the sonic spectrum, things were faded in at just the right rate. ELP didn't do anything like this that I know of.
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Tarkus always sounded amazing on the headphones and Offord's engineering skills were legendary. There seems to be an incredible mythology that surrounds DSOTM .I trust my ears first and nothing else second. |
I do too. That's exactly why I'm questioning Tarkus.
Not to say that the mix on Tarkus was bad, but it wasn't the same thing at all. It was merely meant to accommodate the band's performance. It did that well, but it didn't do much "filling" of the type I've been talking about.
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ELP were so intensive they didn't have any space to fill. But the glacially slow, subtle and musically tender Floyd filled the empty spaces with other things than frantically played instruments.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26171
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Posted: September 14 2013 at 03:52 |
Polymorphia wrote:
richardh wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
richardh wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
One of my favorite albums ever. It made use of stereo to fill the sonic space, something that had not previously been accomplished. The album was something way bigger than the 10 tracks of which it was comprised.
|
I simply don't believe the claim in that statement I have highlighted. You would need to explain that to me. Why would it be such a leap from say what ELP were doing on Tarkus a couple of years earlier?
For me its a collection of good songs that were commercial enough to draw in those that didn't want anything too experimental. There is that with brilliant but simple album cover that suggested something very deep and intellectual. Conceptually it was broad enough to survive scrutiny and not too clever that it would fly over peoples heads.
On The Run was the only real stab at anything that I would regard as experimentation. However electronic innovation in music was already well under way especially when you consider Pete Townsend's Lighthouse Project and Tangerine Dream and the other German pioneers.It wasn't that new.
|
Honestly, I'm surprised you use ELP, of all bands, as an example. Of any prog band, the only one that came near to accomplishing what Floyd did was Yes.
And notice I say "accomplish." The concept of filling sonic space refers to use and understanding of overtones and their role in the orchestration of a piece. I shouldn't say it hadn't been attempted on some scale before (although I'm still surprised that you suggested ELP), but DSOTM showed an intuitiveness to sound that the other prog artists didn't have. Sounds were panned to just the right place, instruments covered just the right parts of the sonic spectrum, things were faded in at just the right rate. ELP didn't do anything like this that I know of.
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Tarkus always sounded amazing on the headphones and Offord's engineering skills were legendary. There seems to be an incredible mythology that surrounds DSOTM .I trust my ears first and nothing else second. |
I do too. That's exactly why I'm questioning Tarkus.
Not to say that the mix on Tarkus was bad, but it wasn't the same thing at all. It was merely meant to accommodate the band's performance. It did that well, but it didn't do much "filling" of the type I've been talking about.
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Well I don't agree. There is hell of a lot going on Tarkus when you listen to it. Compare it the live version and they are so different its untrue. Offord added so much that I would be tempted to call him the fourth member of the band at that time. ELP are never credited with having anything subtle going on yet it is obviously there and in abundance. Intellectually though ELP were dwarfed by Floyd and especially Waters. DSOTM is a solid album for sure but the claims made for it have always seemed ridiculous to me. I just wonder if they had recorded it in 3 months instead of a year whether it would be so praised? Taking a year is nonsense to me but I guess it must be amazing to take that long  |
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Stool Man
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Posted: September 14 2013 at 08:47 |
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It was recorded in 38 days, but those 38 days were spread across a year while touring.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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rogerthat
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Posted: September 14 2013 at 11:09 |
silverpot wrote:
ELP were so intensive they didn't have any space to fill. But the glacially slow, subtle and musically tender Floyd filled the empty spaces with other things than frantically played instruments.
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The opening bars of Breathe make the difference in SOUND between DSOTM and many other celebrated prog records pretty clear. I think the problem with these discussions is the distinction between the music/songwriting and the recording gets confused. People may or may not like the music on DSOTM or just not find it so engaging as to appreciate the hype about it but the recording is incredible. This is not to say Tarkus was badly recorded at all. It's as you said...(a) it was a more muscular affair and the focus tends to be on the music, specifically the performances of the musicians, anyway and (b) ELP weren't as much into psychedelia as PF so sound effects were much more important to PF over and above the subtle nature of their music. If somebody questions what is so special about the RECORDING of DSOTM, I really have to wonder if they have paid much attention to the recording (rather than just the music) at all.
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richardh
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Posted: September 15 2013 at 06:04 |
rogerthat wrote:
silverpot wrote:
ELP were so intensive they didn't have any space to fill. But the glacially slow, subtle and musically tender Floyd filled the empty spaces with other things than frantically played instruments.
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The opening bars of Breathe make the difference in SOUND between DSOTM and many other celebrated prog records pretty clear. I think the problem with these discussions is the distinction between the music/songwriting and the recording gets confused. People may or may not like the music on DSOTM or just not find it so engaging as to appreciate the hype about it but the recording is incredible. This is not to say Tarkus was badly recorded at all. It's as you said...(a) it was a more muscular affair and the focus tends to be on the music, specifically the performances of the musicians, anyway and (b) ELP weren't as much into psychedelia as PF so sound effects were much more important to PF over and above the subtle nature of their music. If somebody questions what is so special about the RECORDING of DSOTM, I really have to wonder if they have paid much attention to the recording (rather than just the music) at all. |
I struggle to seperate the music from the recording. They to me are the same thing. DSOTM has decent songs (one or two classics even) but all the hullabaloo over the recording does alienate me I suppose. I actually think it works better played live from my experience. On The Run was amazing on Roger Waters show while The Australian Pink Floyd do a great version of Great Gig In The Sky. I also prefer the Pulse version over the album version.
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rogerthat
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Posted: September 15 2013 at 06:32 |
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In one sense they are but I am just saying that it is not the fault of Alan Parsons if the SONGWRITING on DSOTM doesn't appeal to some listeners. His brief is only to enhance the music through great recording. I cannot think of any other album whose effect was enhanced as much by the recording. As some other poster said already, this was possibly because the songwriting also offered the scope for it, being very spaced out and relaxed in terms of pace. I saw a programme on VH1 the other day where Parsons demonstrated how different Us and Them would sound without the delay and the echoes. You seem to ascribe a positive and negative bias to the engineers on Tarkus and DSOTM respectively based on your views of the bands/albums in question.
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Stool Man
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Posted: September 15 2013 at 11:46 |
rogerthat wrote:
If somebody questions what is so special about the RECORDING of DSOTM, I really have to wonder if they have paid much attention to the recording (rather than just the music) at all. |
Just to clarify - I started this topic to ask 'what's so special' about a whole bunch of albums, the ones most highly rated on this website. Doing so is mostly for the benefit of younger prog fans and newbies, who might wonder about why this-or-that album gets hundreds of 4/5 star reviews. It's one thing to read such reviews and get an idea of the album, it's another to wonder why those certain albums get such treatment while others do not. Us discussing the albums anew here gives curious people a fresh bunch of opinions. As for DSOTM itself, it's a terrific album, by my favourite band. They've been my favourite band for about forty years. Tomorrow we'll be discussing someone else's album.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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rogerthat
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Posted: September 15 2013 at 11:48 |
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I get you but mine was a separate discussion about the recording of the DSOTM album, not the album itself.
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Stool Man
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Posted: September 16 2013 at 06:09 |
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What's so special about Red?
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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octopus-4
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Posted: September 16 2013 at 07:07 |
I have never listened to it  . Sooner or later I will as I have enjoyed almost all the KC albums that I have listened to.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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irrelevant
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Posted: September 16 2013 at 07:18 |
^ Ha, Cool! Comments like these make me feel good about not yet getting around to listen to certain critically acclaimed albums. 
(on topic) - Red is awesome, yo.
Edited by irrelevant - September 16 2013 at 07:19
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: September 16 2013 at 07:27 |
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It's my dad's favourite colour, as well as the colour ornamenting the house I grew up in. To many it symbolises love, affection and passion.
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