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Polymorphia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2015 at 10:33
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 I felt that you were possibly confusing ambiguity, abstraction and surrealism, so my bad. I agree that abstract lyrics require images and proposed that the listener can supply these, which you felt was the listener writing the song. When a certain song hits someone with the feeling "Oh God, he wrote that song specifically for me", it's the listener relating the song to his own life experiences. It's the abstract scattershot approach that lets certain listeners have the illusion that they 'own' the song.
To be fair, I do know one or two people who respond to that. But only a rare sort of person is going to hang onto every word you say just because you are saying it. You have to grab their interest. Imagination, not lack thereof, inspires imagination. You can poke at mysteries which inspire the listener to use their imagination, but you can't present pureed language and expect them to fill in the blanks themselves. Most people will just turn their attention to the music, and, to be fair, sound based or placeholder lyrics are a perfectly valid form of lyricism. But you overestimate your audience if you think they will actually read into them, if you haven't first engaged them.

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

These are lyrics from Harper's song Sleeping at the Wheel. So back to me point about being ambiguous. What do you think about these?
  
Through the window
Just a wall
Shapes are forming
Blackbirds call
Early morning spirits
Moving hands
Tick-tocking ages
In the half-light of the still
Before the lark
Where I can feel my shadow
Touch your silence
in the dark
Sleeping at the wheel
reaching for oceans before us
for us to feel
together, tonight
Playing eagle
firing eyes
ever willing
sweet surprise
Welling in the belly
Of their chase
Tracing out the angel
In the half-light on your face
Before the lark
Where I can feel my shadow
Touch your silence,
in the dark
Sleeping at the wheel
reaching for oceans before us
for us to feel
together, tonight
Then suddenly
I hear you say
"Time to get up
It's gone midday,
Cup of tea love"
And I realize
I must have dropped off
drifted into dream before the lark
yielded to the ether of our secret world
in the dark


I interpreted this as a person waking up in the morning after a night of sex as if coming to reality. The more ambiguous imagery illustrates perhaps intoxication, but mostly just provides a contrast that emphasizes the "waking up" sensation. I could provide a line by line interpretation, but the point is that it interested me enough to do so. The language and the imagery took imagination to write and so provoked mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2015 at 10:46
Right on! The actual music to this piece is a bit dreamy and ethereal, which adds some completely different dynamics to the interpretation, but the 'waking in the morning' scenario is intact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOTOMS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2015 at 07:41
LISTEN/SUPPORT ESMECTATONS
avant-prog/jazzgrind/noisecore/RIO/industrial/dsbm/powerelectronics/zeuhl/postpunk/deathmetal since 1998
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 09:29

^This is truly powerful stuff that I had ponder over slowly verse by verse. Brilliant. Thank you for sharing your experiences that is both emotive and nuanced at the same time. Clap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 13:33
I can't listen until I get back to the dorm, but the lyrics are quite good. A little archaic maybe, but still well-written.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOTOMS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 14:38
Thanks, men! I appreciate your kind words. Also I did post about my project here too, where you can find previews of my current work and more stuff other than the tons of albums on bandcamp:

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avant-prog/jazzgrind/noisecore/RIO/industrial/dsbm/powerelectronics/zeuhl/postpunk/deathmetal since 1998
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDPascalDD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 13:49
For the making of my album I just made an orchestral intro, kind of cinematic. Should I add more layers or make the melody more clear (in the lo strings)?
ANY reply is very welcome!


Edited by DDPascalDD - October 01 2015 at 13:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOTOMS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 14:43
It's ok for an intro but you must add a leading layer to it. Just my opinion :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDPascalDD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 04:30
Thanks, sometimes you need someone else's ears! LOL Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2016 at 12:06
I think that what I should do is figure out how the changes work in songs, as well as how a song is built. Different artists try different tricks like twisting ABABCAB into something different and even add another musical idea (D or a coda when necessary); using modulation, tonicization, and unconventional cadences; and employing fancy chords like sus, slash (which are like extended chords), add, altered, etc.

Below are some changes that I've examined using the Roman numeral analysis. (If some of it is incorrect, please feel free to address it by posting your take on it or make a verbal suggestion. Some of the changes are confusing but make sense when you hear them.) The reason I did this is to help us all with writing issues when it comes to form and progressions. It appears that I haven't decided whether I should use the classic shorthand or the jazz notation for the chord nomenclature.

On additional note, I've come to realize that some writers have halves of their verses sounding somewhat different; it doesn't have to be the same progression throughout the stanza. Same goes for refrains. Hence my use A(1st half of verse), a(2nd half of verse), B(1st half of chorus), b(2nd half of chorus).

I definitely want to learn to play the first three songs on the piano or acoustic guitar as I find them to be very soulful and rather easy to execute in a short amount of time.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Big Black Car:

 - Aa:

G6 G C C
G6 G C C
G6 G C C
G6 G C C
A(7) D
D- G

 - Bb:

CΔ7
CΔ7
A- G
F

 - Aa
 - Bb

 - C:

CΔ7 FΔ7
CΔ7 FΔ7
CΔ7 FΔ7
CΔ7 FΔ7

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Birds:

 - Aa:

G C G C G C G G
I IV I IV I IV I I

 - B:

G
I

C G C G C B- A-  D C
IV I IV I IV iii ii  V IV

 - b:

G G7 CΔ7 CΔ7 G
I I IV IV I

 - Aa
 - Bb

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

I Believe In You:

 - I:
C# F# C#
I IV I

 - A:
F# G# C# F# F# G# C# F#
IV V I IV IV V I IV

 - B:
D#- G# D#- G# D#- G# D#- G# F#
ii V ii V ii V ii V IV
(v) (I) (v) (I) (v) (I) (v) (I)

 - b:
F# C# C# G# D# C# F# F#
IV I I V II I IV IV

 - A B b b

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The Ballad Of Easy Rider: 

 - I:

D E- D E- D E- D E-
I ii I ii I ii I ii

 - A:

D F#m Bm Em   A

 - B:

D E- F#- G D G D D
I ii iii IV I IV I I

E- E- A A D G D G
ii ii IV IV I IV I IV

 - C: same as AB

 - ABAB

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

I'm A Dreamer: 

 - A:



 - B:

G#- G#- F# F# G#- C# D#- C#
ii ii I I ii V vi V
 (dec.)

B B F# F# G#- F# C# C#
IV IV I I ii I V V

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Betrayed:

 - I: E- E-add9 E- E-add9
 - A: see I
 - a: C E- A- E-
 - B: C- F A- A- F#5 ... F#5 G5

 - AaB

 - C: F#5(maj/m) ... F#5 G5

 - AaBB

 - coda:
E- B- E- B-
E- E- E-

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Alice:

 - I: (riff)
Gm Gsus Gm G5
i i i i
Gm Gsus Gm G5
i i i i

 - A: see I

 - B: Dm Cm
v iv
Gm Gsus Gm G5
Dm Cm
Gm Gsus Gm G5

 - C: Bbm Abm
Gm Gsus Gm G5

 - A B C

 - D: Cm Dm Bbm Abm
Cm Dm Bbm Abm

 - I A B C B C 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Come My Way:

 - I: Gb - Ebm -
Gb - Ebm -

 - A: Gb Ebm -
B   E   Db -
 - a: Gb  Db Ebm ? -
Gb  Db Ebm Db -
 - b: Gb Gb/Bb Gb/C Gb/D Gb/Eb(Ebm) Dbsus Db
a short improv over Gb

 - Aab

 - Gb Ebm -
 - Gb Ebm -

 - Aab Aab

 - Ebm - - Gb

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Next Time Around:

 - I: Gm F(5) Gsus2 Bb6 x2
i bVII i bIII
 - drums
 - I x2

 - A: D A Am Dm/G (G7sus2)
IV I  -> i iv (bVII)
i V v IV
|
D Am
IV i
I v
|
Gm F(5) Gsus2 Bb6  - x2
i  bVII i     bIII

 - C: C C/F Cm/F Ebm Cdimsus
|
Bb Cm7
|
Gm F(5) Gsus2 Bb6 x2
i bVII i bIII

 - A C A C 
 - I x2
   (piano + acgtr)
 - Gm ... 
 - Am

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The Lady:

 - I: G-7 Db5/A - F   -
ii bIII I
C7 - - -
IV

 - A: G-7 - A-7  - B-7 -
CΔ7 - E-7  - A   -
CΔ7 - B-7  - A-7 - D  -
E-7 C G   -

 - D-7 - - -
 - A 
 - C: I A(instr)
F - - -

 - A I

 - coda:
Csus2 Bb5 F5 C5 C5 C5
C5 Bb5 F5 C5 C5 C5
F F6 F7 F
F - - -

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

I think that in the future I should try and figure out the changes to some songs from Nick Drake and Bert Jansch.



Edited by Dayvenkirq - February 19 2016 at 12:09
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2016 at 10:18
Question to fellow musicians: between mood, personality, and having a strong lyrical theme, which of these qualities is the most important to you in songwriting?

My vote goes for mood, as it breathes life into music.
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2016 at 18:59
Not sure, personally. I strive for all three and it's hard to mediate them sometimes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2016 at 01:49
^ Wouldn't it make more sense if you worked them out in a certain order (instead of getting hung up on all elements at once)? Mulling over songwriting techniques, I've figured that in order to (at the very least) breath life into a song you have to set a certain mood on your own terms, by means of experimentation, or starting with a bass-drum groove, or playing rich, intricate changes, or inserting a lo-fi recording from an external source, or any other way. In fact, you could even start an improvisation with any of those ideas and move on. Then you can worry about melody or just completing the song with the rest of the sections.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 12 2016 at 01:52
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N-sz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2016 at 10:51
My brother and I released our first album, called Sharks on a Plane! It's mostly surf rock with some mathy sensibilities: https://blankspacerecords.bandcamp.com/album/sharks-on-a-plane

Here's a sample: 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDPascalDD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2016 at 17:36
@Dayvenkirq: my tracks almost always have a kind of "function" in the album. This results in a certain mood I want to present. Beginning with chords and tempo. Then rythms and bass lines. Or something else that you suddenly find and that could be useful. But another way which is maybe done to death but still accepted and a great way is starting out with a motif, or any other recognisable thing (could be a particular sound or maybe even chord) and building around that- variations, contramelodies, etc.

By the way, could you explain what, for you, is the difference between mood and personality?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2016 at 00:55
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Wouldn't it make more sense if you worked them out in a certain order (instead of getting hung up on all elements at once)? Mulling over songwriting techniques, I've figured that in order to (at the very least) breath life into a song you have to set a certain mood on your own terms, by means of experimentation, or starting with a bass-drum groove, or playing rich, intricate changes, or inserting a lo-fi recording from an external source, or any other way. In fact, you could even start an improvisation with any of those ideas and move on. Then you can worry about melody or just completing the song with the rest of the sections.
Forgot to reply. Well, it normally does happen in a certain order. My personality doesn't really come through my music unless it has the mood I want (thought it's sometimes vice versa). And, for me, lyrics normally happen after the music's done. Having a lyrical personality, theme, and mood, though, is a different story. That's really what I meant by mediating between the three. I'm still not as skilled a lyricist as I am a composer, so I often have to spend extra time on the lyrics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2016 at 01:01
Originally posted by N-sz N-sz wrote:

My brother and I released our first album, called Sharks on a Plane! It's mostly surf rock with some mathy sensibilities: https://blankspacerecords.bandcamp.com/album/sharks-on-a-plane

Here's a sample: 
Nice stuff. Thumbs Up I just got into Dick Dale recently, actually, so I can dig his influence on this track.
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