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Happy 40th! "Tales From Topographic Oceans"!

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2013 at 09:56

Hi,

There was an article on The Oregonian almost a year ago, I think, that was upset that the Portland Symphony did not have enough attention and was not selling enough tickets. So I wrote a response to The Oregonian and the person who wrote that ... who gets free tickets to the Symphony, btw!!! ... and told him that the folks needed to get more modern and interesting ... and stop just doing shows with Pink Martini ... which appear to be the ones that get them the best money.
 
I even suggested, some Frank Zappa, Yes, Jethro Tull (TAAB or PP) ... and even Deep Purple's opus.
 
I never got a reply/suggestion, but the idea is pretty obvious ... they are not interested in the youngsters that don't care about yet another Bach recital this weekend to celebrate the death of his stepson ... PDQ! And no humor! That editorial was not well done and if I was an editor I would have gotten an opposing view by a rock reviewer, of which they have a lot of them ... that love that traditional jazz around here!
 
Even in Germany, they have done a day of Edgar Froese music with an orchestra ... it's coming ... but some of these folks are afraid of stepping aside from the stuff they know too much ... and learn from the stuff they don't know, which in the case of Portland is ... don't want to know because it's not music!
 
And Pink Martini is ... cheap and 2nd rate. I felt like if I wanted to watch that kind of stuff I would go to a bar in San Francisco and watch Dan Hicks and His Hot Licks ... a heck of a lot more fun ... and sexy, too!


Edited by moshkito - September 17 2013 at 10:03
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, instead of paying for a guru or church or social program!



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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2013 at 23:43
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

There was an article on The Oregonian almost a year ago, I think, that was upset that the Portland Symphony did not have enough attention and was not selling enough tickets. So I wrote a response to The Oregonian and the person who wrote that ... who gets free tickets to the Symphony, btw!!! ... and told him that the folks needed to get more modern and interesting ... and stop just doing shows with Pink Martini ... which appear to be the ones that get them the best money.
 
I even suggested, some Frank Zappa, Yes, Jethro Tull (TAAB or PP) ... and even Deep Purple's opus.

Hey moshkito, I've never heard them, but what is your opinion of those "Symphonic Yes", "Symphonic Tull", "Symphonic Genesis" sorts of albums?
I'm using the chicken to measure it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2013 at 23:47
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

 

Cool article...a couple errors in the intro...

2) Yes retired the Tales songs after that tour and didn't revisit them until decades later.

Not true.  Yes continued playing The Ritual on the '74/'75 Relayer tour as well as much of the '76 solo album tour (they also played The Remembering on some of those dates).  You can see this on the "Yes at Queens Park '75" youtube video and I saw it firsthand on the '76 tour.


Thanks!  I've seen Yes perform "Ritual" live several times, including twice with Moraz!  This photo was taken at the "Solos" performance near Chicago, 14 August 1976, and you can tell it is "Ritual" because Howe is playing his Les Paul Junior guitar!  Great photo by my friend Curt, one of the best concert photographers ever! 


 




Edited by cstack3 - September 17 2013 at 23:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 00:32
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

 

Cool article...a couple errors in the intro...

2) Yes retired the Tales songs after that tour and didn't revisit them until decades later.

Not true.  Yes continued playing The Ritual on the '74/'75 Relayer tour as well as much of the '76 solo album tour (they also played The Remembering on some of those dates).  You can see this on the "Yes at Queens Park '75" youtube video and I saw it firsthand on the '76 tour.


Thanks!  I've seen Yes perform "Ritual" live several times, including twice with Moraz!  This photo was taken at the "Solos" performance near Chicago, 14 August 1976, and you can tell it is "Ritual" because Howe is playing his Les Paul Junior guitar!  Great photo by my friend Curt, one of the best concert photographers ever! 


Hey Chuck, I absolutely love that shot!  I saw them about a month before in mid July at the SF Cow Palace.  I remember when I first read that Steve used a Les Paul Junior for Tales I couldn't believe it!  I remember thinking, some of the most adventurous prog guitar playing I've ever heard and he used a Junior???  Just goes to show it's not always the tool but the hands of the craftsman playing it Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 08:40
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

...
Hey moshkito, I've never heard them, but what is your opinion of those "Symphonic Yes", "Symphonic Tull", "Symphonic Genesis" sorts of albums?
 
I think they are a good start ... but some of them are not well done at all.
 
For example, Caravan and the New Sinfonia, is fabulous ... most progressive folks here don't seem to appreciate it as much as I like it! And I think it has to do with the "idea" of what progressive music is, than it does the reality of the music itself!
 
The "Yes", "Tull" and "Genesis" things were not that good ... they should have gotten one of the members of the band involved to make it tighter and better. The "Yes" one, that I remember hearing about 20 years ago, was very poor and I was not interested in an orchestral version of Roundabout! I thought that an orchestral version of TFTO would be more interesting than the pop song hits that so many of these things are doing, see?
 
The PF one, that was around LA, was awful! I think they tried to emulate the showtime special and it fell flat for me.
 
Dream Theater's concerts with an orchestra were excellent. Even if it was metalized ... still it was excellent. Not only does it take talent to do that, it also takes musical knowledge and appreciation!
 
The FZ versions going around, specially that one from NY is not very good ... and I think that it is trying to be too much of a swing band/orchestra thing, that takes away from the music ... sort of try to implement the music into the 30's and make it minnie the moocher all over again, and I think that it is sad, and very bad. In fact, I have written on the Zappa board that I would rather see ZpZ do completely different versions of his dad's work in order to give it a chance to grow more ... like classical music does under the hands of different conductors. But, I'm not convinced that Dweezil is that musically versatile or mentally capable of having to pay attention to the music and joint on top of it ... he can do it as long as it is controlled, but he's not capable of free forming like his dad is ... I think he is too tied up to the notes, chords and music to step outside of it, and he does not have the internal fluidity that dad had!
 
But I heard, and I have no idea who it was, a really nice chromatic harp/harmonica did a version of some pop music that was magnificent ... might have been Toots Thielmans ... but wow ... and that is the kind of freedom that will help a lot of the music come alive and be remembered.
 
I would like to see a full orchestra version of some of these things, but some of the stuff is just all the melodic themes, and nothing else, and takes away a lot of the actual music, and this is why I like the Sinfonia thing with Caravan ... at least one piece was composed specifically for it, and it is excellent, and it also tells you how good some of these folks are in music ... they are not just rock'n'roll'ers!
 
It's all good ... we just need more of it. But local orchestras are afraid to do this ... and specially the Portland one that thinks that you and I are too stupid to know any music beyond the top ten classics! Cold day in hell I will ever buy a ticket to sweep their latrines!


Edited by moshkito - September 18 2013 at 10:26
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, instead of paying for a guru or church or social program!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeepingElf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 09:48
Tales from Topographic Oceans is a fine, if often underrated, album.  It is of course the biggest piece Yes ever released (but not really the finest - that title goes IMHO to "Close to the Edge").  The monumental size of Tales of course conjured problems: how to follow up on it?  Making an even bigger piece - six movements filling three LPs?  Or a new direction?  The answer was the latter - a new direction (with a new keymaster) with Relayer, another great gem from one of the finest progressive rock bands of all times.

And all that just because of a footnote in Yogananda's book Autobiography of a Yogi!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 09:59
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


 
For example, Caravan and the New Sinfonia, is fabulous ... most progressive folks here don't like it! And I think it has to do with the "idea" of what progressive music is, than it does the reality of the music itself!
Can I ask where you get this bullsh*t from? Do you just make it up without bothering to check your "facts"? Or do you actually look at what "most progressive folks here" actually say and then completely ignore that because it disagrees with your preconceptions and prejudices so just make it up anyway?


(please feel free to follow the link, unless you're scared of learning something)




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 10:14
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson. The.Crimson. wrote:



Dream Theater's concerts with an orchestra were excellent. Even if it was metalized ... still it was excellent. Not only does it take talent to do that, it also takes musical knowledge and appreciation!

DIV]


Nicely put. I take it you enjoyed Dream Theater's THE SCORE. My my. I always thought DT were in human that one night at Radio City Music Hall. LaBrie never sounded better in my opinion and he actually reminded me a lot of Jon Anderson.    DT are absolute Aliens and that foreign power was inspired by early YES compositions like the great TFTO.
If you have sensitive and analytical sound equipment quality after market audio interconnects/cables make a HUGE difference in overall sound quality...Wider soundstage, reduced microphonics etc etc..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 10:31
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


 
For example, Caravan and the New Sinfonia, is fabulous ... most progressive folks here don't like it! And I think it has to do with the "idea" of what progressive music is, than it does the reality of the music itself!
Can I ask where you get this bullsh*t from? Do you just make it up without bothering to check your "facts"? Or do you actually look at what "most progressive folks here" actually say and then completely ignore that because it disagrees with your preconceptions and prejudices so just make it up anyway?


(please feel free to follow the link, unless you're scared of learning something)


 
Reworded as it was not meant to say that no one likes the album ... it was meant to say that when it comes to Caravan's favorites, this is not always mentioned, and the remastered album with the other pieces in it (in order too!) is even better!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, instead of paying for a guru or church or social program!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 12:30
The rewording hasn't changed much, it's still condescending.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 12:57
"next to all the bs we spend our time with all day! "..........and the hits keep happening
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 14:09
Another shot taken during the "Solos" show in Illinois!  Not sure which song this was, but Anderson's expression is priceless!  This is my favorite photo of the guy, period. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moogtron III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 16:50
Really nice pics, I must say! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2013 at 23:10
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Really nice pics, I must say! 

Thank you!  Curt has a fine collection of concert photos, shot with 35 mm back in the old days! 

I like the one of Howe, he really looks "ripped" - kind of like a comic-book super-hero with a guitar!  

TFTO continues to amaze me, I'll listen to it every day for a long stretch, really concentrating on each performer's task.  I used to think Wakeman just phoned in his parts, but there are some remarkable synth & Mellotron sections....perhaps he was rehearsing for "Journey"? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2013 at 01:05
Thank you for this great discussion on TFTO!  I think I'll revisit it in coming days.  Haven't heard it in a decade or so, but all these glowing comments make me want to yank it out again.

BTW, I'm a newb here (obviously), though I was pretty active on a.m.p. back in the 90s.  Thanks for creating / maintaining this space!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moogtron III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2013 at 01:37
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Really nice pics, I must say! 

Thank you!  Curt has a fine collection of concert photos, shot with 35 mm back in the old days! 

I like the one of Howe, he really looks "ripped" - kind of like a comic-book super-hero with a guitar!  

TFTO continues to amaze me, I'll listen to it every day for a long stretch, really concentrating on each performer's task.  I used to think Wakeman just phoned in his parts, but there are some remarkable synth & Mellotron sections....perhaps he was rehearsing for "Journey"? 



The one with Howe is incredible, yeah.

Yes, one can only imagine what Rick was doing and thinking.
Eating curries with his left hand, practicing for Journey with his right hand and every now and then providing the occasional note for TFTO LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeepingElf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2013 at 09:03
They looked and sounded like - Elves!!!  They could have come straight from Lothlórien ;)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elbownut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2013 at 14:40

Going to see SeYes perform the whole album this Sunday 22nd at the Robin II in Bilston, UK.Smile

 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moogtron III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2013 at 15:49
^
I was going to say: enjoy, but their site http://www.therobin.co.uk/whats_on/ says the show has been cancelled
If this is true, I feel truly sorry for you Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2013 at 16:52
think Ricks playing on Tales is very good---his synth solo on Revealing is one of his best---his mellotron work on side 2 is very lush and very good---like his work on side 3 too--on Ritual I think Moraz did a better job on the live version than Rick does on studio.
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