Ron Geesin...As He Stands, Right Through, and even Music From the Body are inaccessible to a great deal of people and since age 22...I've always hid myself away when listening to them. I did the same thing with Not Available by The Residents, In The Shadow of the Sun-Throbbing Gristle, Hopes and Fears-The Art Bears, Zeit-Tangerine Dream, X-Klaus Schulze, Trans-Harmonic Nights-Peter Baumann, The Zoo of Tranquility-Johannes Schmolleing, ....all Popol Vuh albums, David Hykes and the Harmonic Choir, Terry Riley, Mort Garson, Ruth White, Jorge Reyes, Pauline Anna Strom, Emerald Web, White Noise, ...In the last 40 years...I have discovered only 2 people interested in listening to these artists. I have yet to meet anyone interested in hearing more than 2 minutes of my Art Zoyd collection. It creates bad vibes for the average or back in the woods people. If you force this music on them...they might drive home, go to bed,..and have a nightmare about you cutting them into little pieces?
I don't know???? That's the reaction many people give because they are very stupied & ignorant about it. If they go to the movie theatre to see a horror or sci-fi film and the music soundtrack is from the same swamp in hell as Univers Zero....then that's okay! huh? really? Either because they don't notice it or they've been conditioned to believe that any bizzare sounding music written must exist only in a film. As a backdrop for a film. Really? When in the real world..it should be accepted like the music of 20th century composers. Bernard Hermann's score to "The Day The Earth Stood Still" is much more enjoyable without the film, leaving your mind with an option to drift about all on it's own..which if it's good music, it will do that for you...without concerning yourself with the importance of the visual film projection to guide everything...and every experience you feel..at all times....as if you're breaking set rules if you don't...which is why most people can't relate to anyone named Ron Geesin or the Avant-Garde noise makers of the 20th century like Edgar Varesse. Most people will never understand how George Crumb's Black Angels was set up, carefully planned, COMPOSED.....and can make no sense of it whatsoever and fine the people listening to it questionable.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16300
Posted: February 03 2014 at 09:59
Hi,
The more I read this, the more I think how insensitive and un-tuned most ears are, IN TIME.
We can go back and find that folks didn't like Debussy. Folks didn't like Stravinsky. Folks didn't like Satie. Folks didn't like this or that. And today? No issues with it whatsoever.
But unlike the past, we now have RECORDINGS, which they didn't then, so one opinion was rarely refuted, like it can be today. And I think this is a massive difference, in understanding and learning about music that was not available previously, or heard, or understood.
Today, I might not get something, and someone makes a comment, and I go hear it again, and oh yeah ... that is alright, and the appreciation improves. You did not have that as much , or as well varied, as you do today!
I don't find anything in "prog", or "rock", or "jazz", inaccessible or impossible to listen to. And I was not a great listener of the ones that love to play with dissonance and off kilter stuff like "Art Bears" and what I usually call the quasi-academic look at music, which to me, is far more inaccessible than 90% of all the rock music out there, prog or not prog! Heck, I find some pop music much more inaccessible than ALL of the prog out there!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: December 19 2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 67
Posted: February 03 2014 at 07:52
I don't knkow if they're considered prog, but P16.D4 might be the most inaccessible thing I've ever heard. I think they're loosely associated with Rock in Opposition, but their sound is essentially harsh droning noise ( from brass instruments and electronics, I think). It's pretty unlistenable, and I usually like experimental music.
I know it's not prog, but most people would consider "Metal Machine Music" by Lou Reed to be inaccessible. Along with Yoko Ono, it's a good album to put on to get rid of unwanted guests.
In general, people who are not fans of prog think of prog as inaccessible in general, except for Yes, Jethro Tull, a few ELP songs and Rush.
Though not inaccessible to me, I'm pretty sure stuff like Gentle Giant, Magma and "Tarkus" by ELP is too inaccessible for conventional ears.
Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Florida, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 46
Posted: February 02 2014 at 21:23
As far as inaccessibility goes music is like art in that you can't expect to like or understand it upon first glance. You have to look at the art from many different angles and perspectives. You have to look at it, walk away, and then come back later and look at it some more. Even then you can't expect to fully appreciate it.
The best thing about music is that as you push your boundaries and try out artists outside your comfort zone you learn to appreciate other points of view and personalities. Really listening, and i mean really focusing your full attention, on different styles of music can strengthen your mind and your soul. As you listen to different kinds of music outside your primary tastes you start to unlock and discover parts of yourself that even you didn't know about.
If you have never screamed at the top of your lungs while listening to a song, you are not there yet. If you have not been overcome with joy while listening to a song, you are not there yet. If you have never gotten up and danced while listening to a song, you are not there yet. If you have never bawled while listening to a song, you are not there yet.
I don't claim to be an expert on music but that is the beautiful thing about music, it does things for the mind and the soul that no other worldly thing can.
Joined: January 15 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Posted: February 01 2014 at 06:58
I find a lot of post rock/math rock hard to listen to at any length. Most of it is simply too ambient. I have tried to listen to Anathema because they're one of the highest rated bands in the subgenre. It sounds more like new age than rock to my ears.
I doubt a whole prog sub genre would be inaccessible to me it's a matter of mental adjustment. Take some kraurtrock / electronic for instance. Love T Dream classic era, (absolutely loathed post-that era and was appalled at the content of a whole box set of casio [ rubbish] sounding keyboards. This was horrible to me). Klaus Schulze, great, no problem. Recently tried some Kraftwek. Autobahn. C'mon, life's too short waiting on something that sounds like the soundtrack for a bus stop not a motorway.
I don't mind time and space (oddly playing Tarkus right now) ....but "Fa-fa-fun on the autobahn" as a highlight? I don't think so.
Camel's Breathless was inaccessibly boring to me as well.
Now the inaccessible ... Magma. First tried the Live Album. Probably still the best place to start. It took a while but there was such an intriguiing use of harmony and rhythm. It sounded original (to me) but required patience to "get" what was happening. Not exactly top 40 oriented. Damn. Still I persisted and ... got it. Other albums and many boots and what a band. Yes, I can understand the pretension. Another word for ambition, to progress from the pack.
So I think I like details, some improv (Miles's various eras) but understated uneventful featureless bland monotony (Kraftwerk) is not going to access me much. But I tried a few times. Not just Kraftwek. There was a Testament album that had the same sounds on the guitars, the same rhythms, the same every damned thing all the time. So fast, so boring. Other than some very nice Spanish guitar at the outset that was the highlight. I think basic rock monotony is inaccessible to me. To much like wall paper.
I do know to stick around for some things. Just because i don't get does not mean I wouldn't or there is nothing to get. When I were a lad I thought Zeppelin's Kashmir was a bit dull. But I was listening with what I have identified as white person listening - from the top down and stop with the guitar (or keyboards as well for we prog fans). Listened to it from the drums up and... blink. The light went on and the whole thing opened up.
I figured if something is inaccessible listen to one instrument, then two. Ignore the vocals. ;) But there has to be something to "get". A whole lot of nothing is inaccessible.
Once computers entered the picture for editing and recording.. the game was over. The new prog is the copy and paste generation.
This is utterly false.
True, yes, false. One example of the original copy and paste prog editing was done by one Eddie Offord c. 1972. Tapes and snippets thereof lying around the studio as Yes tried to piece their ideas together. (It drive Bruford close to the edge of sanity he found solace by being ready for King Crimson).
And then after all that splicing Yes had learn how to play CTTE. Just going by the Chris Welch book on Yes and other things I've read here and there.
Composition takes many forms, some use paper or digital score, others tape machines and editing suites. There are many instruments involved.
I would expect people's tastes to evolve and expand over time as they are exposed to new-to-them styles of music and art generally. I see some people whose opinions on music I suspect have barely changed over decades. To me music listening is a journey and an adventure of new discoveries, and discovering new avenues of music to get excited about. Our tastes are built on a series of foundations over time. I sometimes think that far too many progressive rock listeners are not very progressive when it comes to their comfort zones and expanding their interests. That said, I didn't like AOR when i was young, and I don't expect to ever become a fan of it.
I believe in this so much. My tastes have changed dramatically over time and will continue to. For me its always been about exploring and leaving my comfort zone, even if that means there's some bands I liked 2-3 years ago that do nothing for me now. I know my dad strongly dislikes listening to anything outside his comfort zone... I've tried a couple times with some mild material and he just turns it off. And to be honest, most of my friends seem to be into the same kind of music they were 6 years ago. I could never be like that. I actually become pretty agitated whenever I haven't gone out and explored in a while.
Joined: March 09 2013
Location: Edmonton
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Posted: December 19 2013 at 15:59
Oddly enough I never really had a problem getting into magma, or the Zeuhl genre in general. Neo-prog, and math rock are genres that don't really do it for me.
I'm with you there Greg. When I first joined this site, I was under the impression that almost everybody on here was into experimental music - just because they were members of PA. Progressive rock sounded to me like it ALL was right there on the edge of what you can do and can't do musically - always taking chances and all that jazz. Then I suddenly realised that prog was a sticker - not necessarily progressive (in most cases prog is not progressive to my ears), and subsequently I've had to reevaluate my opinion on these matters a couple of times.
I think most music listeners, be that hip hip connoisseurs or prog rock enthusiasts, tend to stay inside their comfort zones. I've had a hard time trying to kick myself out of my own, but it's tough. I guess the most inaccessible relies on what people are not used to hearing. Sometimes all it takes is time - and other times the music is just bad
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 32844
Posted: December 19 2013 at 13:35
I would expect people's tastes to evolve and expand over time as they are exposed to new-to-them styles of music and art generally. I see some people whose opinions on music I suspect have barely changed over decades. To me music listening is a journey and an adventure of new discoveries, and discovering new avenues of music to get excited about. Our tastes are built on a series of foundations over time. I sometimes think that far too many progressive rock listeners are not very progressive when it comes to their comfort zones and expanding their interests. That said, I didn't like AOR when i was young, and I don't expect to ever become a fan of it.
I'm 31 and I love electronic - it is however something that snuck up on me. Hell I hated most electronic music until I was about 14-15. The older I get, the more different varieties of this music I get into. Maybe when I'm about 90 I'll finally be able to cherish the glitch genre...
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 32844
Posted: December 19 2013 at 13:15
thwok wrote:
For my tastes, progressive electronic is the toughest subgenre to appreciate. Maybe it's just because I'm old (47). However, I was in grade school during Tangerine Dream's heyday. I was also a big fan on Ministry back in the 1980's; which deserves to be on this site just as much as Nine Inch Nails does. I like music with contrast and feeling. Progressive electronic music is just too static and a little cold for my tastes.
Can't see why it would have anything to do with your age. I'm not that much younger, but love Progressive Electronic. I got into Kitaro in the 80s, and it was only about ten years ago that I started to really explore classic electronic prog. Most of what I like, including electronic prog, comes from the 70s. Igor Wakhevitch, Franco Leprino, Heldon, Bobby Beausoleil, early Tangerine Dream, Klause Schulze, Edgar Froese Conrad Schnizler,, Zanov, Ricahrd Pinhas, Tim Blake, early Kraftwerk etc. Just brilliant stull for my tastes. A lot of it is cold, yes, but one can find contrast and lots of feeling in the music -- sometimes it's just more subtle.
Mostly what I have a problem with is certain kinds of slick Prog that is
heavily AOR/ cock rock/ arena rock/ melodic rock (as in the genre)
oriented, and/or is, I think, overly flashy. A lot of what is deemed emotional really doesn't do it for me. I do commonly love lots of contrast in my music (particularly in the eclectic styles sense).
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
This page was generated in 0.111 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Most inaccessible Prog?
Topic Options
PhideauxFan wrote:
Anathema aren't in Post Rock/Math Rock and they sound nothing like New Age.
