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King of Loss 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16329
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 Topic: Fascism in Prog
Posted: August 06 2005 at 19:46 |
 bamba wrote:
spectral wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
May I remind everyone that Communism is NOT the opposite of Fascism. Self-rule/Libertarianism is the opposite of Fascism. |
marxism, the true communism, is the ideological opposite of fascism.
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True  
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Ugh..............No. Marxism, the true communism is the ideologically opposite of people such as General Pinochet or Margaret Thatcher.
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penguindf12
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 20 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 831
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 19:26 |
Tony R wrote:
The NME once called Rush fascist,when it dallied with Ayn Rand's half-baked philosophies.They even went as far as to call them "a danger to our nation's youth."
At that time being called a "fascist" and "Nazi" were often interchangeable.This was very upsetting for Geddy Lee who is Jewish.
I think part of the reason Rush shyed away from their long epic tracks and concepts was because of the stigma of 2112 and to some extent "Hemispheres" being associated with Randean philosophy.
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There's a great article about that in a book called "Progressive Rock Reconsidered," about Rush and the philosophies of Ayn Rand. And no, she's not facist, I've read "Anthem," and in no way is it "fascist". It mainly celebrates egotism as a virtue, and individuality. Facism is the opposite, really, with one dictator commanding everyone else. Hitler's army weren't individualists, at least in the sense that they didn't think for themselves. People see that individulity conflicts with the idea of left-wingers and the communist ideal of "all as one", and automatically conclude it must be the opposite, when in reality it can't be defined in such black-and-white terms. I myself am really unsure who's right, individualism or communists, I have sympathies either way, really.
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spectral
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 04 2005
Location: Vatican City State
Status: Offline
Points: 1422
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 19:24 |
Littlewashu5 wrote:
| marxism, the true communism, is the ideological opposite of fascism |
Marxism is an impossible ideal due to the very nature of living beings.....
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It is an idealogy, a concept about human life. I would say that your statement is impossible to prove and it's ultimately a damning indictment of humanity.
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"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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Littlewashu5
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 84
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 19:17 |
| marxism, the true communism, is the ideological opposite of fascism |
Marxism is an impossible ideal due to the very nature of living beings.....
Edited by Littlewashu5
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 18:35 |
bamba wrote:
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
Well, there's a polish heavy/punk band called Combat 64 or something like that, and they are strict nazi's |
mm polish?? After all the things the nazis made in there its Contradictory.
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Found it quite suprising myself... a bit schocking even
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bamba
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2005
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 368
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 18:32 |
spectral wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
May I remind everyone that Communism is NOT the opposite of Fascism. Self-rule/Libertarianism is the opposite of Fascism. |
marxism, the true communism, is the ideological opposite of fascism.
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True
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Learning Flute [Amigo de Manticore y Memowakeman] (primo)[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2437702285_fbb450500d_o.jpg
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spectral
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 04 2005
Location: Vatican City State
Status: Offline
Points: 1422
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 18:29 |
King of Loss wrote:
May I remind everyone that Communism is NOT the opposite of Fascism. Self-rule/Libertarianism is the opposite of Fascism. |
marxism, the true communism, is the ideological opposite of fascism.
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"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16329
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 18:00 |
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May I remind everyone that Communism is NOT the opposite of Fascism. Self-rule/Libertarianism is the opposite of Fascism.
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bamba
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2005
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 368
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 17:50 |
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
Well, there's a polish heavy/punk band called Combat 64 or something like that, and they are strict nazi's |
mm polish?? After all the things the nazis made in there its Contradictory.
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Learning Flute [Amigo de Manticore y Memowakeman] (primo)[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2437702285_fbb450500d_o.jpg
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bamba
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2005
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 368
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 17:39 |
jaja the fat (I dont remember his name) member of BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO is comunist.
Also Robert Fripp jaja
Viva la cuba libre ! GODSPEED free Cuba
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Learning Flute [Amigo de Manticore y Memowakeman] (primo)[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2437702285_fbb450500d_o.jpg
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Littlewashu5
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 84
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 16:43 |
| This is a bullsh*t thread |
No kidding
Here's a REAL question!
Are there any Prog bands that believe in personal and individual freedom and liberty? Or do you have to believe in some form of statism to play Progressive music?
Edited by Littlewashu5
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 15:48 |
Well, there's a polish heavy/punk band called Combat 64 or something like that, and they are strict nazi's
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Progbear
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2005
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 139
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Posted: August 06 2005 at 15:05 |
Politician wrote:
The Italian progressive band JANUS were reputed to have extreme right
wing lyrics on their album "Al Maestrale", but I haven't actually heard it. |
Yeah, they had a couple of singles too. Supposedly a pretty crappy album, even if stylistically "prog".
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MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
"That's my purse! I don't know you!" --Bobby Hill
N.P.:"Dimension ‘M’"-Franck Dervieux
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abyssyinfinity
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 443
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Posted: August 05 2005 at 15:31 |
spectral wrote:
Are there any fascist prog bands out there? I'm thinking that perhaps Germany or Italy may have contributed a few bands of this nature. |
Yes, in Italy there were almost two bands, La Compagnia dell'Anello and Janus (not in relationship with other band with same name), also Museo Rosenbach were accused to be right-winged as for Nietsche's lyrics and for a Mussolini's photo on LP cover...
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 17 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 4828
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Posted: August 05 2005 at 12:01 |
About The Trees; I think the lyrics describe an abstract conflict with two different parties seeking lifespace and profit, and they are kept in equal level by the force of the 3rd party (goverment).
What ever Peart thought they were when he wrote the lyrics doesn't interest me, but they are good lyrics, as each can understand in their own way, and perhaps use them to realize something from their own lifes.
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Seyo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 08 2004
Location: Bosnia
Status: Offline
Points: 1320
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Posted: August 05 2005 at 11:21 |
I mean, the point is: in real fascism or better in real totalitarian political system there is not much space left for any music (except nationalistic hymns). Zitro, you are not alone in that!  Spectral, I hope you are right. 
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Politician
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 02 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 521
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Posted: August 05 2005 at 11:12 |
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The Italian progressive band JANUS were reputed to have extreme right
wing lyrics on their album "Al Maestrale", but I haven't actually heard it.
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spectral
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 04 2005
Location: Vatican City State
Status: Offline
Points: 1422
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Posted: August 05 2005 at 11:11 |
Seyo wrote:
This is a bullsh*t thread, like that one about "communism" in music. I think most musicians dont care much about politics and even if they have any sort of political conviction, they trade them a lot. They will utilize "fascist" iconography for the sake of the art expression or because they want to shock and attract audience. Some may remember that English punks including the Pistols used Nazi symbols but that does not mean they ARE nazis. Slovenian Laibach did the same for their artistic concept and to cause sensation. Indeed, there are subcultural extreme right groups who have their bands but they have purpose to spread their political ideas not to make music as art expression. And, yes - UK had a fascist party during the Nazi period in Germany (like most of Europe for that matter), but they were not in power (Oswald Mosley if I am correct). |
the uk still has a fascist party (BNP) but they, like Mosley will never get into govt.
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"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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Zitro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
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Posted: August 05 2005 at 11:09 |
I agree with Seyo, this thread is crap, and can even be offensive. Germany isn't even fascist, that's the past ... the most fascist-like country nowadays seems to be the one I live in (USA).
The rest of the reasons are given by Seyo.
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Seyo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 08 2004
Location: Bosnia
Status: Offline
Points: 1320
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Posted: August 05 2005 at 11:04 |
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This is a bullsh*t thread, like that one about "communism" in music. I think most musicians dont care much about politics and even if they have any sort of political conviction, they trade them a lot. They will utilize "fascist" iconography for the sake of the art expression or because they want to shock and attract audience. Some may remember that English punks including the Pistols used Nazi symbols but that does not mean they ARE nazis. Slovenian Laibach did the same for their artistic concept and to cause sensation. Indeed, there are subcultural extreme right groups who have their bands but they have purpose to spread their political ideas not to make music as art expression. And, yes - UK had a fascist party during the Nazi period in Germany (like most of Europe for that matter), but they were not in power (Oswald Mosley if I am correct).
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Fascism in Prog
