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someone_else 
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24005
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 Posted: January 27 2014 at 03:15 |
 presdoug wrote:
Call it what you will, i am all for women having as much rights as men.anybody remember the cool early 1980s song that puts part of that simply-"Women around the world at work, women around the world at work, women around the world at work- Working, working!"
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Martha & the Muffins, amirite?
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 03:21 |
The Pessimist wrote:
So basically LSDisease - and I put this in the most polite way possible - you are a bigot who thinks that it is okay to deny people certain rights based on things that they have no control over (i.e. sexuality, gender, race, class).
EDIT: Equality is not the enemy of freedom. If people are treated differently by a governing body or by other people based on aforementioned involuntary traits, then THAT is opposing freedom. And I really recommend that you read up on Marxism and Feminism before you slander them.
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People should have certain rights because they're people, not males, females, black, white etc. I think it's a simple thing to understand isn't it? I was born in a country where marxism was an obligatory doctrine and I know how this s***t works. Not to mention that I've read Marx works. I can't believe there are still people on this planet that believe there's something good about that genocidal ideology.
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 03:23 |
Luna wrote:
I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear 40-50 y/o British men's opinions on feminism |
Even though I am someone outside this particular narrow demographic I am still however curious to hear what you mean by this comment.
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What?
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 03:27 |
KingCrInuYasha wrote:
It depends on how you define freedom.
In any event, feminism has turned itself into a joke by this point. They've cried wolf so many times that when an actual threat does appear, nobody will take them seriously.
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Freedom is when people do what they want but are responsible for that and the state isn't a nanny to anybody.
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 03:36 |
LSDisease wrote:
The Pessimist wrote:
So basically LSDisease - and I put this in the most polite way possible - you are a bigot who thinks that it is okay to deny people certain rights based on things that they have no control over (i.e. sexuality, gender, race, class).EDIT: Equality is not the enemy of freedom. If people are treated differently by a governing body or by other people based on aforementioned involuntary traits, then THAT is opposing freedom. And I really recommend that you read up on Marxism and Feminism before you slander them.
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People should have certain rights because they're people, not males, females, black, white etc. I think it's a simple thing to understand isn't it? I was born in a country where marxism was an obligatory doctrine and I know how this s***t works. Not to mention that I've read Marx works. I can't believe there are still people on this planet that believe there's something good about that genocidal ideology. |
I'm not an expert on Marx, but is Marxism really a genocidal doctrine or is it the selective interpretation of Marx that leads some regimes to implement it in a genocidal way? In the same way that religious texts are often selectively interpreted and spun to allow for abuse of women, children and persecution of other religions, or non believers/infidels etc?
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 03:44 |
Blacksword wrote:
I'm not an expert on Marx, but is Marxism really a genocidal doctrine or is it the selective interpretation of Marx that leads some regimes to implement it in a genocidal way? In the same way that religious texts are often selectively interpreted and spun to allow for abuse of women, children and persecution of other religions, or non believers/infidels etc? |
Well let's see: Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and many more...even Hitler said he was inspired by Marx. So many examples of the selective interpretation? Maybe it's something wrong with the idea itself ?
Edited by LSDisease - January 27 2014 at 03:51
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 03:53 |
LSDisease wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
I'm not an expert on Marx, but is Marxism really a genocidal doctrine or is it the selective interpretation of Marx that leads some regimes to implement it in a genocidal way? In the same way that religious texts are often selectively interpreted and spun to allow for abuse of women, children and persecution of other religions, or non believers/infidels etc? |
Well lt's see: Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and many more...even Hitler said he was inspired by Marx. So many examples of the selective interpretation? Maybe it's something wrong with the idea itself ? |
Did Marx call for the rounding up and killing of people in their millions? Or did the folk you reference just have a desire for absolute control, and so piggy backed on a 'equality' philosophy to achieve it? I'm not defending Marx. As I said I don't know much about his ideas, but if either from the left or the right, totalitarianism is the same deal. With the left, the state will own you. With the right, private corporations will own you. The libertarian idea of being your own master and being in control of your own existence is becoming increasingly 'not cool' 
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 04:08 |
Blacksword wrote:
Did Marx call for the rounding up and killing of people in their millions? Or did the folk you reference just have a desire for absolute control, and so piggy backed on a 'equality' philosophy to achieve it?
I'm not defending Marx. As I said I don't know much about his ideas, but if either from the left or the right, totalitarianism is the same deal. With the left, the state will own you. With the right, private corporations will own you. The libertarian idea of being your own master and being in control of your own existence is becoming increasingly 'not cool' |
Marx was a racist but it's not the point. The point is, he wanted new, better human beings that are designed to live in the society driven by collectivism. So if man's not perfect let's create a new, better man. It just can't work. World is for people not people for the world. Actually corporationism is NOT capitalism. Capitalism is when politics and business are separated from each other.
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 04:47 |
LSDisease wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
Did Marx call for the rounding up and killing of people in their millions? Or did the folk you reference just have a desire for absolute control, and so piggy backed on a 'equality' philosophy to achieve it?
I'm not defending Marx. As I said I don't know much about his ideas, but if either from the left or the right, totalitarianism is the same deal. With the left, the state will own you. With the right, private corporations will own you. The libertarian idea of being your own master and being in control of your own existence is becoming increasingly 'not cool' |
Marx was a racist but it's not the point. The point is, he wanted new, better human beings that are designed to live in the society driven by collectivism. So if man's not perfect let's create a new, better man. It just can't work. World is for people not people for the world.Actually corporationism is NOT capitalism. Capitalism is when politics and business are separated from each other. |
I agree with your last sentence. There should be no such thing as "too big to fail" in capitalism. The fact that there is, indicates that capitalism in the form we know it has failed. Capitalism should be driven by the forces of competition and supply/demand. If governments selectively looks after big corporations by bailing them out and/or exempting them from taxation, then that makes the playing field uneven for smaller competitors and leads to monopolies/duopolies and an unfair centralisation of corporate power. If you're going to have that, then you may as well have Marxism in the market place and let government control everything.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 05:22 |
Blacksword wrote:
I agree with your last sentence. There should be no such thing as "too big to fail" in capitalism. The fact that there is, indicates that capitalism in the form we know it has failed. Capitalism should be driven by the forces of competition and supply/demand. If governments selectively looks after big corporations by bailing them out and/or exempting them from taxation, then that makes the playing field uneven for smaller competitors and leads to monopolies/duopolies and an unfair centralisation of corporate power.
If you're going to have that, then you may as well have Marxism in the market place and let government control everything.
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That's why I'm totally against corporationism same as I'm against marxism or any other form of socialism. Corporationism is a socialism for the rich.
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 05:43 |
Dean wrote:
Luna wrote:
I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear 40-50 y/o British men's opinions on feminism |
Even though I am someone outside this particular narrow demographic I am still however curious to hear what you mean by this comment. |
Me too, although I am a 51 year old UK male and also outwith such criteria. For what it's worth I found it curious that when we had a female Prime Minister in the UK for 11 years (Margaret Thatcher) she advocated precisely zero legislation that would improve women's prospects of success in society. When I asked the reasons for this amongst her supporters, they all replied that 'her barrenness' wanted to succeed on a man's terms, and would sanction no armistice on the sort of 'received excellence' we are led to believe is embodied by all successful males in the UK. This led to the value system that a materially successful douche-bag had more value than a materially unsuccessful moral individual. Perhaps that's rather simplistic but a level playing field cannot be accused of begetting climbing plants.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 05:54 |
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Just mentioning the word really brings out the stupid people on this site. I'm not pointing any fingers. You know who you are...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 06:05 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Just mentioning the word really brings out the stupid people on this site. I'm not pointing any fingers. You know who you are...
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You might need to remind us, old men forget....
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3145
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 06:48 |
LSDisease wrote:
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
What do you mean by feminism? This brings up the point stonebeard addressed earlier. Are you talking about the extreme "there is absolutely no difference between the sexes and all women should be lesbians" militant philosophy, or are you referring to the kind of gender equality advocacy in the video?
If the former, I can see where you are coming from, although I don't think Marxism is a good comparison (Marxism was, at least originally, more about determinist economic theory than equality anyway). But if you're referring to the latter, you are off the ball...really off the ball...like Colin Kapernick at his worst off the ball.
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There are differences and leave them be. I'm only trying to say that I am against all equality policies. People are not equal and will never be no matter what you do. I'm for freedom, equality is the enemy of freedom.
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 Thats a contradiction.What I meant to say is that the essence of Capitalism is to keep people down and without freedom
Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - January 27 2014 at 07:01
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 07:02 |
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
Thats a contradiction |
Not at all. If you got gender parity for example, you don't care about professional qualifications so you'll force an employer to employ more women only cos you think a company needs more women. It's not only against freedom of choice. It's simply stupid and inefficient.
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3145
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 07:24 |
LSDisease wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
Thats a contradiction |
Not at all. If you got gender parity for example, you don't care about professional qualifications so you'll force an employer to employ more women only cos you think a company needs more women. It's not only against freedom of choice. It's simply stupid and inefficient.
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You are not getting what I meant to say. I said Capitalism in itself is inherently a system without freedom as it requires certain people to be kept down and without "freedom" to do as they like. Even though I believe in the concept that people who are physically able to work should not be lent a free hand they have to work for it and I also believe in the concept of meritocracy "best person for the job at all times" the term simply does not mean freedom. What many movements sought out to do is prove the concept of meritocracy and feminism was included in that(today I don't really take them as seriously). What is freedom? Freedom to do what ? to be at the mercy of an employer who really does not care for you or your needs? Most people work like pigs to become "free" and that in itself is not freedom. I'm sorry to tell you this but corporatism and capitalism are one and the same. You can't have one without the other' as that old Married with Children theme song once said. All employers care about is profit and if that means laying off workers they'll do it and that is what capitalism inherently is. You lay off a bunch of workers or lower their salaries or whatever to make money
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 17995
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 07:29 |
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LSDisease the libertarian thread is over there
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 07:31 |
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
You are not getting what I meant to say. I said Capitalism in itself is inherently a system without freedom as it requires certain people to be kept down and without "freedom" to do as they like. Even though I believe in the concept that people who are physically able to work should not be lent a free hand they have to work for it and I also believe in the concept of meritocracy "best person for the job at all times" the term simply does not mean freedom. What many movements sought out to do is prove the concept of meritocracy and feminism was included in that(today I don't really take them as seriously). What is freedom? Freedom to do what ? to be at the mercy of an employer who really does not care for you or your needs? Most people work like pigs to become "free" and that in itself is not freedom. I'm sorry to tell you this but corporatism and capitalism are one and the same. You can't have one without the other' as that old Married with Children theme song once said. All employers care about is profit and if that means laying off workers they'll do it and that is what capitalism inherently is. You lay off a bunch of workers or lower their salaries or whatever to make money |
You're not right, it's corporationism not capitalism, there's been no capitalism in the world for at least 100 last years now. But if you prefer communism you can always move to North Korea. They really hate capitalism.
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3145
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 07:36 |
LSDisease wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
You are not getting what I meant to say. I said Capitalism in itself is inherently a system without freedom as it requires certain people to be kept down and without "freedom" to do as they like. Even though I believe in the concept that people who are physically able to work should not be lent a free hand they have to work for it and I also believe in the concept of meritocracy "best person for the job at all times" the term simply does not mean freedom. What many movements sought out to do is prove the concept of meritocracy and feminism was included in that(today I don't really take them as seriously). What is freedom? Freedom to do what ? to be at the mercy of an employer who really does not care for you or your needs? Most people work like pigs to become "free" and that in itself is not freedom. I'm sorry to tell you this but corporatism and capitalism are one and the same. You can't have one without the other' as that old Married with Children theme song once said. All employers care about is profit and if that means laying off workers they'll do it and that is what capitalism inherently is. You lay off a bunch of workers or lower their salaries or whatever to make money |
You're not right, it's corporationism not capitalism, there's been no capitalism in the world for at least 100 last years now. But if you prefer communism you can always move to North Korea. They really hate capitalism.
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I am not moving to North Korea. Where do you live? Just asking
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 07:39 |
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
I am not moving to North Korea. Where do you live? Just asking |
Germany (former East)
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Feminism
