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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2014 at 11:12
One of the most interesting experiences I had was when I witnessed a Classically trained keyboardist in Philadelphia lifting accents of notes from  J.S. Bach's Brandenburg Concertos. The idea at hand was not to by any means...copy the notes that were being played by instruments. His idea revolved around adapting the sound which was a rotation of swirling sounding notes played at rapid speed along with obvious notes being accented like the familiar sound of a heartbeat. He reflected the idea for one of his new Progressive Rock pieces. So in point....he borrowed an idea from a composer centuries before his existence to compose a Prog Rock piece that would flow like sections of the Brandenburgs , but resisting any emulation of character to Bach's music in the obvious sense. This kind of working concept needs to be applied more so today. Although there are obviously some brilliant Neo Prog bands out there who in fact DO find their own voice. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2014 at 11:36
White Willow have always , (to my knowledge), had female singers on board with them. This simple idea to incorporate a female style of fine vocal ability divides the band from sounding exactly like anyone else in particular...although a few times they've crossed over into the King Crimson borderline, they seem to focus more on how to make an original presentation in their music. The sound of the female vocals instead of a male vocal..(like a John Wetton , or Greg Lake type), masks them in case they DO cross into too much emulation of others.  Jacob's guitar doesn't sound exactly like Bob Fripp's after careful observation and it sort of tells me that there could be pre-planned ideas at their rehearsals to dismiss the entry of a sound that is too familiar. I saw a video once of Camel rehearsing an original piece where Andrew Latimer turns to the keyboardist and says..."Wait a minute, wait! wait!...that's Pink Floyd you're playing there!"  "Don't add in that!"  So...when people in the band are picky like that..it's for a reason. That reason is to make sure that the sound of the band is original. The most important factor in this life is the band!


 Even if it's Keith Emerson writing most of the material, the most vital aspect is how will his material sound after Palmer and Lake add their ideas. The wrong thing to do in this case would be to worry about how the listener is going to react to ....for example...the complexity of the piece. That's being contrived because a musician shouldn't have to change his art due to some preconceived notion revolving around what is generally accepted. The music as a whole,...will never produce it's ultimate beauty if it is dealt with like that. Most Progressive Rock recordings that P.A. members rave over are not written or recorded with that idea in mind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 23:34
Is age a really a barrier for getting in to music. I'm 17 and I love progressive rock alongside many other genres both old and new. The funny thing is I used to be into nu metal a long time ago. Then I discovered and I liked their "different" sound. I found out that they were progressive metal and i began to explore other prog bands getting into Pink Floyd, then yes, then rush, then King crimson ect. But I don't know many others my age who like prog rock aside from pink floyd.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 00:15
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

I basically wondered aloud whether the lack of discussion of newer bands that aren't terribly informed by the 1960s/1970s prog-rock movement might have something to do with the aesthetics and perhaps ethos/sensibility of much music from the 1980s/1990s onwards coming across as too modern. (for lack of a better word) 

Modern in a sense as contributions by those in the culture that indirectly
creates a societal atmosphere that contributes to those who do school shootings, yes.
I think a lot of us don't feel that newer prog is really from a different segment
than mainstream culture.  And being "mean" and dissonant and scary, isn't
going to fool us.  I was listening to SPK and all the rest of the major Industrial
bands in 1983 on.  Being sick and disgusting is a pretty old sight.

Modern prog often seems like it's a product of it's times, by people that don't think all that much
about things.

I am 51 and got into the major prog bands while still in the 1970s.   I also grew up listening to
classical music.  I was into some "new wave" or punk shortly after it started, and in the 
eary/mid 1980s was aware of the core of the Industrial bands (TG, SPK, etc.).  
With the Internet I got to hear many of the bands I never heard.  It wasn't the Industrial
bands that I sought out, because that aesthetic was very uninteresting to me.  I was
finding out that skillful enjoyment of music was more about developing a finer taste of what the music was doing to me.   So, classical could be on the same level as good prog.  

Online, I would find new songwriting that was good, some old (Nick Drake) and some new (Belle and
Sebastion, Stereolab, Mew).  Also, mainstream pop music from France, Germany and Holland
from the 1960s, as well as getting deeper into rarer black gospel.   From friends, I was aware of
the most current avant garde music that had an international following, but that didn't interest
me as much because some of it seemed just hyped, kind of like sound design and not traditional
concepts in composition.

So, I still look at the older prog as being different, but NOT because I don't listen to anything else.
Essentially, the best music can be abstracted into its roots -- newer prog just doesn't do
anything for me, it's not that new music doesn't.  

My two biggest discoveries this week:

Jean-Louis Florentz, La Croix du Sud (Olivier Latry)
Schnittke: Concerto Grosso No. 2 / Kagan, Gutman 

Two classical composers of recent years I had not barely heard of before.
Totally mind-blowing, expansive, innovative, and totally not "prog." old or new.


 


Edited by brainstormer - October 29 2014 at 00:17
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ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 09:53
Originally posted by TradeMark0 TradeMark0 wrote:

Is age a really a barrier for getting in to music. I'm 17 and I love progressive rock alongside many other genres both old and new. The funny thing is I used to be into nu metal a long time ago. Then I discovered and I liked their "different" sound. I found out that they were progressive metal and i began to explore other prog bands getting into Pink Floyd, then yes, then rush, then King crimson ect. But I don't know many others my age who like prog rock aside from pink floyd.

It's because you have an ear for it. It naturally draws you in unlike your friends...who might have a short attention span and that alone could be based on many different points. Many youths today have adapted into their agenda ...this "so called" attitude that whatever has been accomplished in the past is NOT only worthless to discuss, but worthless to their own individuality to which cast's out a desire for them to be better or completely original and different of any...for example: composer of the past. One afternoon in the music store , I was taking a break with one of the other instructors and we heard the most outstanding piano playing that caused us to dismiss our conversation. It was a young teacher playing Classical piano in his studio until the next student arrived. His student cancelled and he played many Classical pieces that were breathtaking. He finally entered the hall, we shook his hand and told him he was amazing. We asked who was his favorite composer and if any of them in particular influenced his playing and writing.


 He told us that he didn't respect any of the Classical composers and that he resented the entire concept of being influenced by them. He expressed being original and that influences from anyone else in music would shatter those possibilities. I shook my head because this concept is shattering within itself and it will never work. It closes off any possible creativity to the mind. It's moronic and selfish. This pianist was 20 years old. He was gifted and stuck on a half wit theory just like many, many of the young students I've taught over the last 15 years. I don't know how or why such a awkward and unnatural theory would be accepted in society. To have an extreme caution to be completely original involves blocking out the forces of the past and the educational innovative beauty it gives to musicians? huh? It has no logical sense about it. The key to following an original path or guide in music composition does not revolve around being totally dismissive of art created centuries ago. That's ignorant stupidity. How can you cut off a force that is a foundation of education in music just to be original? How can a person walk around resisting everything from the past and believing that the motive contains a purpose in their life? Do other P.A. members notice this mentality in society?


Edited by TODDLER - October 31 2014 at 10:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 10:08
The irony is that the iconic, influential musicians of the past, say the 70s, had their idols and most never failed to mention this fact and pay rich tribute to their idols whenever they had the opportunity.  It is quite likely that by shutting yourself out from all pre-existing music, you end up unwittingly emulating them and perhaps more obviously than if you had been aware of music history.  Because there are only so many notes and everything under the sun has already been done. Originality comes in more from the way you present your ideas; total invention of an entirely new concept like say Schoenberg's work in atonality, happens very rarely in music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 10:12
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

The irony is that the iconic, influential musicians of the past, say the 70s, had their idols and most never failed to mention this fact and pay rich tribute to their idols whenever they had the opportunity.  It is quite likely that by shutting yourself out from all pre-existing music, you end up unwittingly emulating them and perhaps more obviously than if you had been aware of music history.  Because there are only so many notes and everything under the sun has already been done. Originality comes in more from the way you present your ideas; total invention of an entirely new concept like say Schoenberg's work in atonality, happens very rarely in music.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 12:04
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

The irony is that the iconic, influential musicians of the past, say the 70s, had their idols and most never failed to mention this fact and pay rich tribute to their idols whenever they had the opportunity.  It is quite likely that by shutting yourself out from all pre-existing music, you end up unwittingly emulating them and perhaps more obviously than if you had been aware of music history.  Because there are only so many notes and everything under the sun has already been done. Originality comes in more from the way you present your ideas; total invention of an entirely new concept like say Schoenberg's work in atonality, happens very rarely in music.

This is all very true. I have had this conversation with you before...I mean this keyboard typed communicationShocked
...and it all seems to be a reality of musicians banging their heads against a wall for originality. The answer to this problem is very simple. Don't try to copy what the "Big 5 or 7" did. Instead research what inspired them to write like that. Go for their resources instead. That's the answer staring young musicians in the face. The only way to gain originality is to have your own interpretation of a composer and not Keith Emerson's or Robert Fripp's. If they created something very original from it, so can we. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 14:17

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

... Because fans are drawn more to the SOUND of rock music than the compositional nuts and bolts of it, there probably comes a point where they cannot accept something as rock that is too sonically removed from conventional notions of rock.

... "notions of/about music" ...

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

... In the 70s, rock was still growing and expanding so perhaps listeners just got busy discovering the music as it was unraveled.  It's quite possible that that phase is over and listeners will only feel confounded by bands that defy classification.

I would agree that there was an open-ness to the new things in music, but then, we have to understand that things like Janis, Jimi, and Jim, were so far and away different from anything from before, specially when considering the top ten state of radio up until 1964 and 1965 before the Beatles, Rolling Stones and Kinks and others busted through.

The "phase" was never over, since I started listening to music on the mid 60's in Brazil.

What is missing, is an appreciation and understanding that other people around the world, also learn to play a Fender and use it very differently from the way we think rock'n'roll should be, and this is the problem with a better defined culture via the media, which England and America DID lead in the 60's and 70's, which helped us think that we are the boss of the world and that we define music and everyone else is crap! And while there is a couple of examples on PA's top 100, in the end, it is grossly slanted towards 2 places, while all the others were obviously too stupid to play any music! See my point?

THUS, it is hard to show folks that there was no "gap", because others, elsewhere were also doing something, however culturally different it might be.

Of all the examples I can give you of the gross media generalization of music, is the fact that folks here consider Enia the voice of Celtic music (so to speak) and that Alan Stivell is nothing but the voice of an idiot Breton, that can't even be considered Celtic, and his group from Brittany, was a part of a gigantic genocide many years ago. But we hate to hear Alan sing about it! And his music abilities and mixes are far more progressive than at least 90 listings in the PA's top 100 ... OK ... maybe 80!


Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

... The thought that something new might be happening probably doesn't occur to people anymore.  It might be a harsh thing to say but then I listen to what people say about their music and how they describe it and they describe their needs almost exclusively in terms of genres.

I just think that we're so ingrained with the top ten mentality that we ae losing the ability to know if something new is coming around or not, and "new" nowadays, is just a new name and a new song, that is the same as the old song!

You and I, would not enjoy that, or appreciate that at all, because if there is one thing that we have learned to do, is specifically learn to listen to things that are completely different, albeit there are way too many folks that still look for a sound, and a style, rather than something that sounds like, although our definition of "progressive music" is all about what 2 or 3 bands sound like!

But I question the "gap". When I saw Roger and "The Wall" the mix of young and old was 50/50. When I saw KC a few weeks ago, the mix was 60/40. And the only concert I did not enjoy that had the ugliest and saddest group of fans? ... YES, and its fad'ists!

I wonder if what we call the "gap" is when you go see your favorite Taylor and the audience is all teens!!!! Then, there definitly is a "GAP" ... !!!!! But I'm not sure that all the kids in there are bothering or worrying about "music", any more than we did when we went to the Fillmore, or the Forum or MSG, or the UFO.



Edited by moshkito - October 31 2014 at 14:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 11:48
The "Progressive Rock" era of the 70's influenced several generations of musicians , who BTW, were young at the time. For example musicians who traveled the world, were not successful ...even though they were recording in studios and made a living doing covers. The Beatles played covers in Hamburg, Germany and yet people in the U.S. have little respect for that calling you a loser...when in fact during the 60's, this was a means to reach a higher scale of popularity if you took music seriously and wanted connections. A perfect example to back up my theory would be this: Musicians who payed their dues playing covers and were successful with sky rocketing sales, SUPPOSEDLY..(never bothered to return to the old venues they once played) and this was society's version of the story and it's very untrue. There is a borderline and this is an actual radar line that a musician doing covers crosses into occasionally. When you cross the radar line to the other side, you're suddenly meeting folks you listened to when you were a kid. Now you are on the other side and important musicians are noticing your talent because you are briefly in the right place at the right time. This usually does not occur in a bar, but in the 70's, it did often occur in a "Rock Club" of your choice. 

This is a reality NOT often realized by your fans whether you're progressive or mainstream Rock...it makes little difference, but it's insulting to a devoted musician/writer who has to tip his hat and smile to everyone who misunderstands. One particular generation gap with me personally is the misinformed nature that subsides in the minds of young musicians today. Instead of being ignorant about past realities, it should be taken as either a lesson or maybe a sad lesson that you fine full of negativity, but teaches you something new about life...such as awareness and appreciation for Prog Rock history. Little do many of them know...that in 1978 you could walk on stage in a "Rock" club and perform "Close To The Edge" in it's entirety and receive a standing ovation above and beyond today's standards. Between 2 to 300 kids are packed to the walls, standing in front of the stage, drinking their beer and screaming because your band is actually performing the piece right. The devotion of the audience then was shocking. You were ONLY doing this to save money , pay for the studio and record your own Prog music. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 15:23
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

 The key to following an original path or guide in music composition does not revolve around being totally dismissive of art created centuries ago. That's ignorant stupidity. How can you cut off a force that is a foundation of education in music just to be original? How can a person walk around resisting everything from the past and believing that the motive contains a purpose in their life? Do other P.A. members notice this mentality in society?
I'm with you on this Todd. I personally don't know a single musician worth his salt that did not have some musical hero or style as an influence before going their own way.
 
And the detachment of musical history from musical theory, with some people, is a complete mystery to me.
 
Like anything else in history, if you don't know the mistakes, you're bound to repeat them.   LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 16:46
I really like it when I see younger fans comment that they like the older bands. However, it seems that they are in a minority in the US. In the US the younger fans just want to listen to hipster indie rock or post rock or whatever their friends listen to.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2014 at 04:28
Isn't post-rock kind of a couple generations removed spiritual successor from progressive rock, though? I imagine that someone who likes Slint wouldn't have much of a problem appreciating King Crimson's Red or a Tortoise fan would take easily to Can's Future Days. Then there's the fact that the 1980s noise rock scene (Butthole Surfers, The Jesus Lizard, Sonic Youth etc) frequently took cues from the 1960s/1970s psychedelic rock movement's more abrasive sounds. I know, not quite the same thing as the progressive rock but there's definitely some amount of overlap.

Of course, then there's things like production and visual aesthetic or lyrical content perhaps getting in the way... I imagine that might be a stumbling block for a lot 1980s/1990s indie rock fans when it comes to getting into 1960s/1970s progressive rock. The last many weeks I've mostly been listening to 1980s/1990s music and as a result I'm less "attuned" to 1960s/1970s aesthetics. It's like there's this kind of cultural wavelength I have to recalibrate the way I process music to match.

Maybe this is just a downside of me having a very formal and holistic approach to appreciating art.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2014 at 09:44
I have a friend who is into classic rock and likes pink Floyd and rush. I remember one time I played 21st century schizoid man for him and I think it was a bit to much for him. Maybe progressive rock is just to complex and inaccessible for most people. My mom thinks prog rock band "don't know how to play their instruments".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2014 at 19:09
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by TradeMark0 TradeMark0 wrote:

Is age a really a barrier for getting in to music. I'm 17 and I love progressive rock alongside many other genres both old and new. The funny thing is I used to be into nu metal a long time ago. Then I discovered and I liked their "different" sound. I found out that they were progressive metal and i began to explore other prog bands getting into Pink Floyd, then yes, then rush, then King crimson ect. But I don't know many others my age who like prog rock aside from pink floyd.

It's because you have an ear for it. It naturally draws you in unlike your friends...who might have a short attention span and that alone could be based on many different points. Many youths today have adapted into their agenda ...this "so called" attitude that whatever has been accomplished in the past is NOT only worthless to discuss, but worthless to their own individuality to which cast's out a desire for them to be better or completely original and different of any...for example: composer of the past.
...
 
Totally agreed.
 
Too much of the "liking" today, is just "sounds like" ... if you don't believe me, check out rap some day ... while not the same in words, it is basically the same. "Fandom" these days, is about that sound, because it sells, not because people "KNOW" how to listen to music and appreciate it for what it is.
 
This is the biggest problem with the state of "progressive" music these days.
 
All any youngster needs to do is see the recent KC tour, and realize that what they did yesterday is just as strong today ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2014 at 20:36
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by TradeMark0 TradeMark0 wrote:

Is age a really a barrier for getting in to music. I'm 17 and I love progressive rock alongside many other genres both old and new. The funny thing is I used to be into nu metal a long time ago. Then I discovered and I liked their "different" sound. I found out that they were progressive metal and i began to explore other prog bands getting into Pink Floyd, then yes, then rush, then King crimson ect. But I don't know many others my age who like prog rock aside from pink floyd.

It's because you have an ear for it. It naturally draws you in unlike your friends...who might have a short attention span and that alone could be based on many different points. Many youths today have adapted into their agenda ...this "so called" attitude that whatever has been accomplished in the past is NOT only worthless to discuss, but worthless to their own individuality to which cast's out a desire for them to be better or completely original and different of any...for example: composer of the past.
...
 
Totally agreed.
 
Too much of the "liking" today, is just "sounds like" ... if you don't believe me, check out rap some day ... while not the same in words, it is basically the same. "Fandom" these days, is about that sound, because it sells, not because people "KNOW" how to listen to music and appreciate it for what it is.
 
This is the biggest problem with the state of "progressive" music these days.
 
All any youngster needs to do is see the recent KC tour, and realize that what they did yesterday is just as strong today ...

This I believe is a pre-planned method of influencing the minds and mentalities of the youth. The industry first cracked down on any epic or instrumental and perceived it to be a threat to their new ideas. The short songs and the commercially contrived business concept to enforce the law of the 3 or 4 minutes song and abandonment of art in the form of great musicianship and lyricism. This was in full swing by 1980 when Prog remained underground. Radio programs played the music of Popol Vuh after midnight while commercial Pop music returned to rule the empire...just as it originally did prior to the abundance of creativity in Rock music during the mid to late 60's. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2014 at 20:52
Over 3 decades ...different generations have developed a short attention span..unlike the 60's and 70's when it felt like people in general were more interested in music. People didn't take music so seriously in 1980 and it was strange doing all this road travel realizing that 2 years ago in 1978 they did! It was a huge shift of interest that was swept away over a 2 year period. It was subtle in 1975 and the industry washing their hands of art seemed to build from that particular year to a finalized act of disregarding art. This short attention vibe which seems more evident now...is a vampire feeding off everyone it can. It controls most people and it profits greatly from it. There is no reason to bring art into this. There are many outstanding vocalists in today's world of Pop music , but some people in the past have said that the music is a contrived concept based on the same patterns over and over...and having "set ideas" for breaks in the music. These ideas are worthless because there IS no creativity within them. It's an idea created to sell something and very distant from an idea to create.   

Edited by TODDLER - November 09 2014 at 20:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 09:55

Originally posted by Toddler Toddler wrote:

The "Progressive Rock" era of the 70's influenced several generations of musicians , who BTW, were young at the time. For example musicians who traveled the world, were not successful ...even though they were recording in studios and made a living doing covers ...

The TOM DOWD dvd has a nice take on this and I recommend seeing it. Not quite this way, but close.

Basically, though, you have to realize that the media (per se) did not exist as it does today, at the beginning of the century. You must realize the incredible sense when people first saw moving pictures, and the famous shot that was aimed at the camera ... and many people walked out of the theater and screamed, and a couple of newspapers wrote articles about how insensitive the film makers were when they did that.

In Europe, however, film was considered more of an "art", and there was less of a reaction, but many folks in the upper classes were already watching film privately, and there are many jokes about it in Victorian Literature, including a famous one "... we can't show that to the lower classes ... what will they think?"

Things like the first "talkie" gave folks one of the very first ideas that there were arts elsewhere, even if they were different. Everyone had their local this and that, and everyone knew the famous such and such from the picture on the paper, but no one had heard of a whole lot more. And right after the "talkies" radio became much more important as it was used as an effective tool in WW2. This started back in the 30's, and even was creating some senstational reactions, specially when you consider Orson Welles and then realize that even the US Congress considered banning him from the radio!

Per Tom dowd, after WW2, mostly the film studios got their stars to sing, and they started putting out albums, which inadvertantly ended up almost single handedly killing a lot of black music that was getting very well known around the country. But the "stars" were selling! The others were not getting any play on radio, or any attention, therefore they can't be good .... SOUND FAMILIAR? ....

The late 50's and early 60's brought out an amazing boom in music and it was at this time that many people woke up to the sales potential of many of these.

It's really hard to discuss "progressive" within these contexts, because it was all "new", and as such, even our favorite scene is an extension of what was there before. That music got stuck on the radio/topten thing and style is another story.

But music, just like theater, film, and painting in the 20th century ... NEVER ... stopped growing and showing something different. There is no GAP. Except in our view of things!

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 11:44
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Toddler Toddler wrote:

The "Progressive Rock" era of the 70's influenced several generations of musicians , who BTW, were young at the time. For example musicians who traveled the world, were not successful ...even though they were recording in studios and made a living doing covers ...

The TOM DOWD dvd has a nice take on this and I recommend seeing it. Not quite this way, but close.

Basically, though, you have to realize that the media (per se) did not exist as it does today, at the beginning of the century. You must realize the incredible sense when people first saw moving pictures, and the famous shot that was aimed at the camera ... and many people walked out of the theater and screamed, and a couple of newspapers wrote articles about how insensitive the film makers were when they did that.

In Europe, however, film was considered more of an "art", and there was less of a reaction, but many folks in the upper classes were already watching film privately, and there are many jokes about it in Victorian Literature, including a famous one "... we can't show that to the lower classes ... what will they think?"

Things like the first "talkie" gave folks one of the very first ideas that there were arts elsewhere, even if they were different. Everyone had their local this and that, and everyone knew the famous such and such from the picture on the paper, but no one had heard of a whole lot more. And right after the "talkies" radio became much more important as it was used as an effective tool in WW2. This started back in the 30's, and even was creating some senstational reactions, specially when you consider Orson Welles and then realize that even the US Congress considered banning him from the radio!

Per Tom dowd, after WW2, mostly the film studios got their stars to sing, and they started putting out albums, which inadvertantly ended up almost single handedly killing a lot of black music that was getting very well known around the country. But the "stars" were selling! The others were not getting any play on radio, or any attention, therefore they can't be good .... SOUND FAMILIAR? ....


This was a very sad time for the "Black Community" who created many styles of Blues, Rock n' Roll, Jazz and to boot...their music was being ripped off by a vast majority of white people that controlled the industry. This was a complete and utter disaster and beyond that was a disgraceful act to all the Blues masters, Jazz masters, and innovative Rock n' Rollers. When Miles Davis and John McLaughlin joined forces..this reality of racism did not affect their art..unless in which case there may have been a theme on the subject itself. Tribute To Jack Johnson has that subtle approach to the man's life. The music is very mysterious sounding in various sections , coming across more ambient  and clearly certain artists had little fear of being Black or White and working together. This judgement on the color of a person's skin destroyed potential for music to grow during that period in time. It was completely useless and pointless to make a judgement revolving around such ridiculous "back in the woods" type thinking and have the money power to pursue it

The late 50's and early 60's brought out an amazing boom in music and it was at this time that many people woke up to the sales potential of many of these.

It's really hard to discuss "progressive" within these contexts, because it was all "new", and as such, even our favorite scene is an extension of what was there before. That music got stuck on the radio/topten thing and style is another story.

But music, just like theater, film, and painting in the 20th century ... NEVER ... stopped growing and showing something different. There is no GAP. Except in our view of things!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 12:07
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Toddler Toddler wrote:

The "Progressive Rock" era of the 70's influenced several generations of musicians , who BTW, were young at the time. For example musicians who traveled the world, were not successful ...even though they were recording in studios and made a living doing covers ...

The TOM DOWD dvd has a nice take on this and I recommend seeing it. Not quite this way, but close.

Basically, though, you have to realize that the media (per se) did not exist as it does today, at the beginning of the century. You must realize the incredible sense when people first saw moving pictures, and the famous shot that was aimed at the camera ... and many people walked out of the theater and screamed, and a couple of newspapers wrote articles about how insensitive the film makers were when they did that.

In Europe, however, film was considered more of an "art", and there was less of a reaction, but many folks in the upper classes were already watching film privately, and there are many jokes about it in Victorian Literature, including a famous one "... we can't show that to the lower classes ... what will they think?"

Things like the first "talkie" gave folks one of the very first ideas that there were arts elsewhere, even if they were different. Everyone had their local this and that, and everyone knew the famous such and such from the picture on the paper, but no one had heard of a whole lot more. And right after the "talkies" radio became much more important as it was used as an effective tool in WW2. This started back in the 30's, and even was creating some senstational reactions, specially when you consider Orson Welles and then realize that even the US Congress considered banning him from the radio!

Per Tom dowd, after WW2, mostly the film studios got their stars to sing, and they started putting out albums, which inadvertantly ended up almost single handedly killing a lot of black music that was getting very well known around the country. But the "stars" were selling! The others were not getting any play on radio, or any attention, therefore they can't be good .... SOUND FAMILIAR? ....

The late 50's and early 60's brought out an amazing boom in music and it was at this time that many people woke up to the sales potential of many of these.

It's really hard to discuss "progressive" within these contexts, because it was all "new", and as such, even our favorite scene is an extension of what was there before. That music got stuck on the radio/topten thing and style is another story.

But music, just like theater, film, and painting in the 20th century ... NEVER ... stopped growing and showing something different. There is no GAP. Except in our view of things!


What about the view that things are just not the same? There are great things to mention today...like Steve Wilson being a kid at one time, growing up on Progressive Rock and re-mixing fine Prog albums with their band leaders/main writers..producing something in the end which tells us that what we are hearing is how the album was originally suppose to sound like. He's making money...BUT!...he is giving us a gift. The scene is not the same and particularly in the U.S.    In the 70's when I traveled..creativity was all around me. It didn't matter at all if you were performing with a commercial show band. In the dressing room..musicians played Classical, Jazz, and Prog. I still travel today and it's just not like that at all and the exceptional musicians on the circuit avoid compliments because everything is so disrespectful to them anyway. 

In the 70's when a musician auditioned for a show band, top 40, or Rock band, it was a requirement for that musician to display their diversity prior to a decision being made. They were asked to play the Blues, asked to play some Jazz/Fusion, a lead solo in a Rock song, Folk music entered into this as well. Where is all of this today? Auditions with the average band today are a joke. I remember when you had to be skilled and disciplined to get hired. That's music right out the door..more or less. Think about it. In the 70's ...no doubt there were a host of bands who were copy cats. It's always been inevitable for this to occur and no less than watching your childhood friend applying the breaks on the bike so you can learn yourself. In today's world there are TOO many clones and not enough people desperately trying to NOT be clones.
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