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Svetonio 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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 Posted: February 05 2015 at 14:54 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Martina Navratilova said in an interview that "it's not tennis anymore" and that it should adopt a rule that the major tournaments ought to be played with wooden rackets that are made in the same way as before, and delivered together with that old kind of the wires made of the cat's guts, which are actually done a way slower play than it is the case today when the rackets are, say, slingshots" made of carbon fiber.
But Martina Navratilova is an old woman now. Do you think it would be a new audience liked to watch a slow-motion? I think that they would get bored quickly in that case.
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I understand Martina's point in some extent but absolutely in different sports:
For example archery
This is archery
Doesn't matter if the materials are lighter, easier to manipulate, etc, the mechanism is the same.
This is not archery
This is not archery, the laser sight makes all the job.
Now in Prog, there are guys who use the computer to enhance the sound, that's OK, not so different from using a Mellotron , but people who rely almost exclusively in the computer to create, sample, etc, that's not acceptable for me.
No matter how fast or how precise, the human touch is getting lost
Iván
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I completely understand you, Iván.
I knew people - older than me - who loved to listen to prog, but only prog that did not contain synthesizers (or with very little synth) i.e. early prog. They were telling me that the synths "do not sound human". Today the young prog bands using analog synthesizers because they sound "more human".
So that crossbow with a laser stuff will also one day be in a museum and probably will be used only as an enthusiasts' toy.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: February 05 2015 at 15:05 |
Polymorphia wrote:
And what's wrong with programmed drums? 
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Nothing if they are programmed in the way that I like it.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: February 05 2015 at 15:11 |
Gerinski wrote:
Yes, but a steady beat is not what you always want, the musician(s) need to know what they want and make it happen, with real instrumentalists or with rendered playing. 'Steady beat' is one of the things which often cause complaints from some listeners. |
They are very old and often repeated drummer jokes, along with Q: "how do you know when you drummer is at the door." ... A: "the knocking gets faster" ... I don't for one minute actually believe any of them to be true... Or do I?
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What?
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2446
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Posted: February 05 2015 at 15:52 |
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Tame impala and Unkown mortal orchestra are two of the better bands you'll find since the early 80s. 70s sound and style and pretty good composers with original melodies
Edited by dr prog - February 05 2015 at 15:53
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Rick Robson
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Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
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Points: 1607
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Posted: February 05 2015 at 16:22 |
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Edited by Rick Robson - February 07 2015 at 04:53
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 "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: February 05 2015 at 19:16 |
SteveG wrote:
^I think Dean might have been making an ironic but true statement. If your main concern is a steady beat as is used in today's Pop, Hip Hop or whatever, then programmed percussion will work just fine. It just doesn't cut it for most Prog music, however. (Thank the gods!)
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But of course..it is very true that many people in audiences feel a bit cheated when they can't see a drummer. Even something pathetic like the drummer dropping their sticks or things in general that go wrong during live transmission makes the audience feel at home or that they shared something with the band at the event.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20503
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 08:46 |
^But again, Prog fans are going to actually see the drummers regardless if they have a good night or bad night. My point was directed toward manufactured Pop output from the likes of Beyoncé et al.
Edited by SteveG - February 09 2015 at 15:12
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Walton Street
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Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
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Points: 872
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 09:16 |
because of all this crap snow as of late my commute has been longer then normal, so I've been using the time to get to know the 2 Porcupine Tree albums I bought (as a result of all the chatter about them here) I'm enjoying them but I noticed that some songs resonate with me more than others - which is normal for anyone, but I started wondering why. It occurred to me that I enjoyed the tunes more that aren't as guitar-centric as the others. I preferred the songs that had more keyboards and harmonies over the others. So then I thought about this thread and figured that for me .. the older prog that I like better than the newer prog that I like is due to the emphasis on the keyboards. it's not a matter of disliking new prog .. i'm enjoying the exposure i'm getting so far and expect to explore a lot more as I can afford it. And there's a lot of old prog i'm not madly in love with either ... but there's a particular sound that I've found in Genesis and Marillion, that I respond to a little more than the others that has everything to do with the balance between keyboard and guitar that I haven't found (YET) in anything newer. (plus the story telling in the lyrics - often which have classical roots) Doesn't mean i'm not going to listen or enjoy any other music, or stop exploring what's new - it's just a personal explanation of why certain bands are lifetime favourites for me that trump other bands by a bit, and in my case - they happen to be older. and by trumping I mean - those bands I need to listen to more than others ... that's all.
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"I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 09:22 |
Early Prog was of great importance in many areas that would further develop composition technique in modern music. Progressive Rock of the 70's influenced singer/songwriters that charted #1 hits. As I've mentioned before...Billy Joel was influenced by Keith Emerson, which is obvious on many of his releases. Chi Coltrane who scored a hit song titled "Thunder and Lightning" had a personal interest in Progressive Rock. Joni Mitchell was having a rave up with the press about "In The Court Of The Crimson King". Again...this was the sole connection of peers in the music business, promotion/support from the record companies, and a huge following that built the Prog empire.
"Older Prog", "Classic Prog"...is more important to me because of it's history and my personal experiences on the road with Prog in the 70's. The Prog scene attracted some very sinister crowds. There was a following in the U.S. for underground European Prog bands which extended all through the 70's. The "drug scene" on the East coast of the U.S. throughout the entire decade of the 70's, was still very much based on experimentation ...as it were in the 60's. The Prog community experimented taking drugs while listening to YES and I mention Yes ..in particular..because of the deep connection between themselves and the band's music. It was a bit "over the top" when the majority of the people in the audience were telling you that they were there to see God. Once the band entered the stage, I began to forget all about my social surroundings and watch a great band perform "Close To The Edge". In any event, many people were tripping on acid ..in the hopes of seeing God when YES played and further setting half of JFK STADIUM on fire during a wild and dynamic performance by YES on the piece "Ritual". This felt like a more bizarre take on the violence that went down at "Altamont".
I liked the way the underground Progressive Rock scene was promoted in the 70's. Recently...a radio program for Progressive Rock was put together by a Electronic artist and a DJ in Philadelphia, P.A. I listened to 2 hours of the show..waiting to hear Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, and The Enid...and instead I got "Mountain" and plenty of it. I sitting ...thinking.."You morons! "You're doing an hour on "Mountain" for a show based on the history of Progressive Rock? I wanted to call the station and voice my opinion very badly, but I held back when I realized they were probably friends with Leslie West. "Over the top" experiences occurred in 70's Prog scenes and they do now. I still go for the early Prog music quite more than the modern regarding the music itself, but the social environment of the Prog community in the 70's...I do not.
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 09:32 |
Walton Street wrote:
because of all this crap snow as of late my commute has been longer then normal, so I've been using the time to get to know the 2 Porcupine Tree albums I bought (as a result of all the chatter about them here) I'm enjoying them but I noticed that some songs resonate with me more than others - which is normal for anyone, but I started wondering why. It occurred to me that I enjoyed the tunes more that aren't as guitar-centric as the others. I preferred the songs that had more keyboards and harmonies over the others. So then I thought about this thread and figured that for me .. the older prog that I like better than the newer prog that I like is due to the emphasis on the keyboards. it's not a matter of disliking new prog .. i'm enjoying the exposure i'm getting so far and expect to explore a lot more as I can afford it. And there's a lot of old prog i'm not madly in love with either ... but there's a particular sound that I've found in Genesis and Marillion, that I respond to a little more than the others that has everything to do with the balance between keyboard and guitar that I haven't found (YET) in anything newer. (plus the story telling in the lyrics - often which have classical roots) Doesn't mean i'm not going to listen or enjoy any other music, or stop exploring what's new - it's just a personal explanation of why certain bands are lifetime favourites for me that trump other bands by a bit, and in my case - they happen to be older. and by trumping I mean - those bands I need to listen to more than others ... that's all. |
Interesting
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Altairius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 14 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 187
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 12:46 |
dr prog wrote:
Tame impala and Unkown mortal orchestra are two of the better bands you'll find since the early 80s. 70s sound and style and pretty good composers with original melodies |
Tame Impala doesn't sound like the 70's for sh*t.
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SteveG
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Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20503
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 14:39 |
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^I don't believe they were trying to.
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The Sloth
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Joined: October 05 2013
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 15:53 |
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That's a great point about the role of guitar in classic prog vs new. Steve Hackett was basically a second pianist, with all the "head down and focused" responsibility of a supporting band member who backs the typical guitar hero. More crafty than a situation where the guitar comes out front, which usually means the raw energy of the instrument becomes more or less the point of the music. This is why I believe Tool is carrying the torch. Adam Jones is only another voice in the ensemble.
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Star_Song_Age_Less
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Joined: December 08 2014
Location: MA
Status: Offline
Points: 367
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Posted: February 07 2015 at 03:47 |
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^ For some bizarre reason I always forget about Tool, but whenever I hear them I love it. Of more recent bands the ones I think of right away that I love are Opeth and Porcupine Tree. I wouldn't say I like Tool any less, but for some reason my brain doesn't hang onto them. A Perfect Circle also carries qualities that I love, and I oddly think of them before I remember Tool, too.
I tend to find a lot of the passion I'm looking for in metal/prog fusions. There's this band called To-Mera I've been listening to lately that hits you with these sudden jazz riffs, incorporates elements of thrash, symphonic metal, not afraid to make wild combinations - and there's so much intensity of feeling in it.
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https://www.facebook.com/JamieKernMusic
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Roxbrough
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 02 2012
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 100
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 13:49 |
If you think old Prog is superior to new prog, perhaps you should try this:- Just been listening to the excellent second album from Breathing Space. Classic Prog and from 2009! |
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Live Long and Prosper
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 41339
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 13:54 |
Roxbrough wrote:
If you think old Prog is superior to new prog, perhaps you should try this:-Just been listening to the excellent second album from Breathing Space. Classic Prog and from 2009! |
I love this album! 
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20503
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 15:13 |
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^Yes, this is indeed a great album.
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2446
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 15:37 |
Altairius wrote:
dr prog wrote:
Tame impala and Unkown mortal orchestra are two of the better bands you'll find since the early 80s. 70s sound and style and pretty good composers with original melodies |
Tame Impala doesn't sound like the 70's for sh*t. |
Ok late 60s then
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Why old prog - for me - is better than new prog
